Pembroke Development

[HarryVB]

Yeah I totally agree with everything.. But Princess Anne highschool already has a future home next to the new renassiance academy off witchduck..the corner of vbblvd and witchduck actually where CEL.. Central Educational Learning building and the vb public school office.. Its already in planning

[varider]

http://www.vbgov.com/file_source/dept/plan...nalDocument.pdf

Final document for the Pembroke Implementation Plan. It's a huge file though, 45MB. You can pick up a hard copy at a Virginia Beach Public Library.

[varider]

The plan is so great.. If Virginia Beach ever becomes like this, it would easily have a top 10 downtown in the country.

[urbanfan]

The plan is so great.. If Virginia Beach ever becomes like this, it would easily have a top 10 downtown in the country.

Nowhere near it, but I can't understand your enthusiasm.

[ronsmytheiii]

These are the big things that we should keep an eye on for the next 5-10 years:

Connect Constitution D rive from Columbus Street to Bonney Road with four lane connector and bike path

Implement Thalia Creek open space plan,including bike paths, walking paths and parks

Develop urban plan for Princess Anne High School property in conjunction with Virginia Beach Schools

Advance Performing Arts Academy expansion to Sandler Center

Develop designs for Cleveland Street improvements and connections to Greenwich Road

Start land acquisitions for public properties at transit stations

Start land acquisitions for City properties that would be used for parks and open space

Pursue the creation of Lynnhaven Landing in coordination with the Lynnhaven Ecosystem Restoration Project on the anticipated work near and around the Thalia Creek.

Establish the Town Center of Virginia Beach as an Arts and Entertainment District

Develop public facilities strategy within City-owned lands, recreations, libraries, museums, theatres, etc.

I definitely see the station acquisition program already happening with the Circuit City buy, and will probably be the priority with light rail starting to develop. Another point that I believe will happen soon is the replacement for Princess Anne High School after the new central Academy as a new school usually takes awhile to plan and make. Lastly the road projects will probably start after the Laskin gateway project is finished (probably with a couple years in between to do small projects needed) I would warrant that park space acquisition will probably lag as well as art/art academy.

[varider]

Nowhere near it, but I can't understand your enthusiasm.

You can't understand why I am excited that the city i was born in has created a long range vision that creates a world class downtown?

[metalman]

Is Virginia Beach a city for Charlotte to watch? This Charlotte blogger thinks so.

http://www.theqclife.blogspot.com/

[varider]

Is Virginia Beach a city for Charlotte to watch? This Charlotte blogger thinks so.

http://www.theqclife.blogspot.com/

yeah they need to watch us! we're the next up-and-coming southern city! haha.

But if you look at the blog, a lot of the factual material came from my post on UP a couple weeks ago. It's verbatum.

[varider]

The Pembroke Implementation Plan (Strategic Growth Area #4) was recommended to be approved by the planning commission on October 14. There will be a public hearing before the City Council on Tuesday, October 27 at 6 p.m. Then, on November 10, the City Coucil will consider adopting the Plan as part of the Virginia Beach Comprehensive Plan.

And then....

They better get to work. Haha.

[ronsmytheiii]

With the extension of Constitution Drive to Bonney Road, it makes me think that rather than looking to redevelop Pembroke Mall or fight for the HQ land perhaps Phase V should look to redevelop the strip mall off of Constitution Drive (Blocks 16 and 17.)

This land is already part of town center so I would imagine that zoning is already in place. The biggest thing would be to extend main street to Beasley Road as a proper road rather than a cut through. I would think that Block 17 definitely has the most going for it at the corner of the newly extended Constitution and Virginia Beach Boulevard. Of course this will probably not happen for a few years, probably a couple after the Block 11 Tower is completed.

[urbanlife]

that area makes sense for a natural progression of growth, I am curious who owns those blocks and what their plans are. The land could easily be divided into 6 blocks, which would definitely add to the urban landscape of the area. Of course though, for serious growth of downtown VB, Pembroke redevelopment is a must.

[varider]

I have a question for you guys.

Now that we have this amazing urban development "implementation plan," what's the next step?

I'm too young to really have seen a city create a plan and watch what happens next.

Does the city just sit on it's arse until some developer comes and proposes something and tells them to look at the plan to see how to build it/design guidelines? Or will the City create a plan to create an urban street-grid and seperate the 200+ blocks that this plan has outlined? What happens next guys?

I'm really looking forward to the growth of Virginia Beach's "metropolitan center." Do ya'll thnk that as soon as the economy improves we will start to see this plan take action? I understad it's a long rage plan, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't start now.

[urbanlife]

I have a question for you guys.

Now that we have this amazing urban development "implementation plan," what's the next step?

I'm too young to really have seen a city create a plan and watch what happens next.

Does the city just sit on it's arse until some developer comes and proposes something and tells them to look at the plan to see how to build it/design guidelines? Or will the City create a plan to create an urban street-grid and seperate the 200+ blocks that this plan has outlined? What happens next guys?

I'm really looking forward to the growth of Virginia Beach's "metropolitan center." Do ya'll thnk that as soon as the economy improves we will start to see this plan take action? I understad it's a long rage plan, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't start now.

Actually there is alot of nexts that need to happen, this is a very complex thing for any city to do. The city will need to redo zoning laws throughout this area to make it so that the current suburban and light industry developments in the area cannot be added to with more suburban developments as well as making so that no new light industrial can happen as well. The city will also need to create either one or several urban renewal funds for the downtown area in order to keep the tax money that is being gathered in that area within that area...thus any money that is collected would then be used only for improving that area. Also, there will be tax incentives and tax breaks based off of what developers wish to do...basically the more urban something is or the more affordable residential units or whatever is being provided becomes easier to do with government money and tax reductions to help out...it is very common for cities to create a renewal district and say you will only have to pay 10% or whatever of the land tax for the next 20 years. Things like that make it much easier to build right away.

Once laws, rules, and regulations are in place, the city will probably begin to try to buy up land on the cheap because the larger amount of land the city owns the easier it is for them to control what gets built...if they are smart the will create a Development Commission which is designed to be a developer for the city. The commission buys up land, then looks for developers to sell to that are under contract to build something that works with what the city wants...that way someone cant just sit on the land until it becomes more valuable...that is why many cities still have too many surface parking lots downtown.

The first few waves of projects are going to be masterplan projects like the Town Center because there is little to no urban fabric in Pembroke right now. So for a while anything new that happens will probably be done in 4-6 block projects...with these initial projects, the city will then use money to restructure roads to meet the idea of their urban plan...once things become more in full swing, the city will then start taking on bigger projects with its roads to better connect everything.

Again, I want to point out the word WAVES...because that is how development will happen for a while...the Town Center was a wave, with much smaller waves happening within it, basically each phase. The Pembroke Mall is another big wave that will happen that will definitely have several small waves that happens before that is complete. During these private developer waves, the city will have its own waves that will happen with public projects, such as parks, roads, and other public issues....parking garages is another key thing for the city...every time the city is involved in a project with a private developer and the city is picking up the tab for the parking garages, that is better securing that the city will always have total control over the garages in the downtown...which will not be free forever, but the city will be able to better regulate the costs of parking and make all of the profits from it.

So yeah, what I just described is alot of work that will happen over long periods of time, but I can say you will probably begin to notice changes as soon as the economy starts to bounce back and you will notice a wave of development when light rail begins to move through Virginia Beach....everything else will just take time.

[varider]

Oh okay. Thanks.

I hope the demand can stay high while we continue to build. Right now the demand is ^, with Cosmo being 100% occupied, Armada Hoffler being 100% occupied, etc.

You think it will continue to stay like that? I think it will become much more popular when LR rolls through.

Anybody heard any new news on the "Gateway" tower? I hope the Westin aLoft starts in January.

[varider]

The City Council is to consider adopting the Pembroke Impementation Plan today at 6p.m.

[ronsmytheiii]

Many people here are excited about large high rises, as they should be. However I have to say that I would like to see developments like down town Roanoke, especially the farmer's market. Perhaps we should concentrate on three to five level developments and creating a streetscape before we build higher (excluding Town Center and City View of course.)

[varider]

I respectfully disagree.

Downtown Roanoke is the center of a city of 80,000. That's a SMALL TOWN.

"downtown"Virginia Beach is the center of a city of 450,000. A LARGE AMERICAN CITY.

I agree, the focus shouldn't be on supertalls, but at the same time, 3 stories is what downtown Suffolk should focus on. Now if you say we should focus on 10-15 floor buildings, I can agree with that. And maybe a 3-5 floor building on the outskirts of the SGA.

[vdogg]

I respectfully disagree.

Downtown Roanoke is the center of a city of 80,000. That's a SMALL TOWN.

"downtown"Virginia Beach is the center of a city of 450,000. A LARGE AMERICAN CITY.

I agree, the focus shouldn't be on supertalls, but at the same time, 3 stories is what downtown Suffolk should focus on. Now if you say we should focus on 10-15 floor buildings, I can agree with that. And maybe a 3-5 floor building on the outskirts of the SGA.

I have to agree with you on this point. 3-5 floors would not be sufficient for our CBD where the goal is to change our growth pattern and limit sprawl. The 10-15 floor Aloft/Cosmo/CityView type of projects are more in line with what we should be expecting at this stage in our development. This with become especially true once LR is extended to TC.

[urbanlife]

I would say the urban plan the city put together is what they should be focusing on.

[ronsmytheiii]

I have to agree with you on this point. 3-5 floors would not be sufficient for our CBD where the goal is to change our growth pattern and limit sprawl. The 10-15 floor Aloft/Cosmo/CityView type of projects are more in line with what we should be expecting at this stage in our development. This with become especially true once LR is extended to TC.

Sorry, was not talking about the SBD, talking about converting the industrial/carlots/run down strip area into 3-5 urban style buildings. Would be a great way to start converting the middle of Pembroke into an urban environment, rather than waiting for it to spill out of the CBD.

[varider]

Sorry, was not talking about the SBD, talking about converting the industrial/carlots/run down strip area into 3-5 urban style buildings. Would be a great way to start converting the middle of Pembroke into an urban environment, rather than waiting for it to spill out of the CBD.

I'd agree if the height was 5-7 floors. But 3 stories is like the size of a house. That should be nowhere near the downtown of the Commonwealth's biggest city. Just my opinion.

When you have a 15 story apartment complex thats over 95% occupied and a 40 floor condo/hotel tower that's not doing too bad, why stop. I can't wait to see how the aLoft apartments do.

[urbanlife]

Actually I am really curious how new development is going to happen throughout the light industrial area west of the town center...I see either small almost grassroots projects happening creating small funky urban pockets at first with 3-5 story projects...which with the current state of the economy might be easier to do that these larger projects. Also talking about the occupancy rate of the area, 95% doesnt matter when talking about a light industrial area. Also with so many individual property owners in that area, I think it will be hard to get large projects started at first without the help of the city trying to buy up land.

Though on the flip side, it would be important to build a large area of buildings throughout the industrial area for a quicker change over. I will the old HQ site was in development as originally planned because that seemed like the perfect push to new development started throughout that area...though I did question the connectivity of that plan, it was not the best for promoting urban growth to the west...I think Kellam should be a retail active street though that area, not the back end of buildings and garages.

[varider]

Another idea I thought about.

There's actually lots of office space in those lame 5-6 floor Pembroke 1-6 office buildings [i actually go to the docter in two of them].. I think that any new office building built in the downtown area will continue to draw offices out of the Pembrokes [there's already lots of vacancies] and into the new towers. Eventually, they will become abandoned [believe me, they r already rough] and that will be prime land for development. With ArmadaHoffler tower 100% leased, it won't be long before a couple more office towers are constructed [i think Gateway or whatever will become 100% leased just like AH.] I honestly am feeling very excited about the future of downtown/town center/pembroke/midtown/center city/uptown/ whatever else I've heard it called.

As far as residential, Town Center already has high demand. I'm guessing it will become even more desirable once the lightrail comes through [halfway between DTN and the Oceanfront]. I think we are goin to see a res.building boom. You've seen with the aLoft [already financed] that res. won't be hard to get $$ to build.

[mlsimons]

I'm starting to get really nervous about a lot of the major projects like the Aloft, Gateway Tower and the Downtown Westin. It seems like these projects were all planned/designed before the market crashed and then now they all been approved and are awaiting construction but its a whole new world out there, and the new costs might make the investment required seem unfeasible. I know that a lot of these big players have supposedly already received financing... but have their interest rates gone way up? Has construction cost just skyrocketed? Why haven't these projects started when they were all approved months ago? If this was 4 years ago they would have broke ground the day council said Approved.

Is anyone else sharing in these concerns yet keeping it inside?

[vdogg]

I'm starting to get really nervous about a lot of the major projects like the Aloft, Gateway Tower and the Downtown Westin. It seems like these projects were all planned/designed before the market crashed and then now they all been approved and are awaiting construction but its a whole new world out there, and the new costs might make the investment required seem unfeasible. I know that a lot of these big players have supposedly already received financing... but have their interest rates gone way up? Has construction cost just skyrocketed? Why haven't these projects started when they were all approved months ago? If this was 4 years ago they would have broke ground the day council said Approved.

Is anyone else sharing in these concerns yet keeping it inside?

Aloft has confirmed financing and is scheduled to begin after the first of the year. That one's in the bag. They received their financing this year in the middle of the economic turmoil, it's a lock. Gateway, not so sure. Commercial real estate is taking a beating right now and I wouldn't be surprised to see it postponed another year. Info on the Downtown Westin's status is in the Norfolk forum.