Pembroke Development

[varider]

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/03/photos-crew-demolishes-town-center-taco-bell

Yupp, Taco Bell is just being remodeled.

Could someone answer this question for me?

How come all the nat'l fast food joints in Hampton Roads don't ever have urban settings in a storefront type environment? Like in Norfolk. Why wouldn't the McDs and Popeyes relocate to a DT storefront? Or Virginia Beach? Taco Bell? McDs? Wendys? Why are they all detatched with their huge parking lot and drive-thru.

[urbanvb]

cause its suburbia

[varider]

cause its suburbia

This is true, but what makes Taco Bell more profitable in it's current location, rather than being in say.. the ground floor of the Cosmo?

[VBIllini13]

This is true, but what makes Taco Bell more profitable in it's current location, rather than being in say.. the ground floor of the Cosmo?

Drive-thru. Most visitors to town center don't really live within walking distance of the taco bell and most likely don't want to search for a spot, park in a garage, and walk farther than they have to for fast food. That's not saying though that fast food in urban storefronts don't work. I was in downtown Evanston the other weekend and there in fact was a Taco Bell on the ground level of an office building. The reason it works there is because downtown Evanston has more residents, workers, and visitors than Town Center, and it is about a 5 minute walk from Northwestern, so it gets a lot of foot traffic.

[urbanlife]

Drive-thru. Most visitors to town center don't really live within walking distance of the taco bell and most likely don't want to search for a spot, park in a garage, and walk farther than they have to for fast food. That's not saying though that fast food in urban storefronts don't work. I was in downtown Evanston the other weekend and there in fact was a Taco Bell on the ground level of an office building. The reason it works there is because downtown Evanston has more residents, workers, and visitors than Town Center, and it is about a 5 minute walk from Northwestern, so it gets a lot of foot traffic.

Same here in Portland, we have several fast food chains that are in urban settings in downtown that are along the bus mall...which is the reason why they are where they are...just outside of downtown everything is drive thru based because drive thru is where the money is at for fast food. The only time you see urban fast food places is when it is in a high foot traffic and high transit locations.

There is a good chance you might see some pop up once LRT starts to become more popular and used more within the city....but then again, I am not usually for fast food chains, unless it is Burgerville because their food is local and amazingly good.

That doesnt surprise me about that Taco Bell, I have a feeling it is going to be a long time before that place gets redeveloped because the owner is making a profit from it as it is, and if he ever sells it, he wants to make the most money that can possibly be made for it, which is not going to happen right now.

[varider]

I spent the weekend in Reston Town Center for a state FBLA leadership conference (I qualified for the national leadership conference in Nashville as well).. but the entire time I was there, I was comparing it to the Town Center of my own hometown. Basically, it's much better, bigger, more vibrant, etc. Honestly, while in Reston Town Center, I felt a vibrancy that I've never felt in Hampton Roads..which is sad seeing that I was only in a Town Center. It just irritates me that Hampton Roads can't match up with these urban areas around the country. It's my understanding that Reston is excactly 20 years old this year.. VBTC is 10 years, do you guys think that VBTC will be able to grow to the size of RTC?

[urbanlife]

I spent the weekend in Reston Town Center for a state FBLA leadership conference (I qualified for the national leadership conference in Nashville as well).. but the entire time I was there, I was comparing it to the Town Center of my own hometown. Basically, it's much better, bigger, more vibrant, etc. Honestly, while in Reston Town Center, I felt a vibrancy that I've never felt in Hampton Roads..which is sad seeing that I was only in a Town Center. It just irritates me that Hampton Roads can't match up with these urban areas around the country. It's my understanding that Reston is excactly 20 years old this year.. VBTC is 10 years, do you guys think that VBTC will be able to grow to the size of RTC?

Short answer, yes...seeing that the town center is basically modeled after the town center. I am guessing you were never up in Reston 10 years ago (just guessing), but I remember taking a drive up their before I moved west to see Reston because VB was starting to finally push for actually building a town center of their own and wanted to model it after this. I remember going up there the fall of 2001 and seeing the area and while I was impressed with what was there, it was also very small at the time. It felt like about the size of maybe 8 urban blocks and still had alot of vacant store fronts in need of filling in. I remember to the western end of the RTC there was a new tower half way constructed and a few huge lots that were waiting for future developments. But it was definitely impressive for what it was.

I would question the age of the VBTC, I dont think it is 10 years old yet seeing that I moved away in November of 2001 and they had just cleared the trees then and was doing site prep work. Actually doing some quick reading, it looks like the town center opened its first building in late 2002, so it would be safe to say that you would have to wait another couple years to truly see what the 10 year effect has been for the town center.

Also another bit of information to take into consideration when looking at the town center to see if it has been a success is the Pembroke Plan, which will basically turn Pembroke into a huge downtown for the city. None of this would of ever happened without the town center. Granted it hasnt really happened yet, but as our country comes out of this down economy and money starts moving again, we are going to start seeing new things happening and companies looking for new investments.

More than likely VB will not have a Miami effect happen in the town center because of the negative impact that it has had on Miami, but I am guessing there will be an influx of moderate buildings in Pembroke over the next ten years. Depending on what kind of pushes happen will depend on what kind of businesses relocate there as well.

I would guess in the next ten years there will be new sparks of possibility of relocating city hall to Pembroke or more city jobs to the area. In the next ten years light rail will begin to role through the city and developers will be looking to own as much land as they can around each stop for more "masterplan developments." It is very likely someone wealthy enough will step up to bring VB a MLS team provided the city helps build a new soccer stadium for it (which this I am guessing will be more at the later end of the 10 years.)

Dont expect any new tallests for the city in the next 20 years though, but I am guessing there will be a number of 10-30 story buildings in Pembroke's future in the next 10 to 20 years. I would also go out on a limb and say in about 5 years from now we will begin hearing the owners of Pembroke Mall talking about redeveloping and reconnecting the Mall to the Town Center. Which from this, I would guess that something like what is going on with Hampton's old mall is what is going to happen to Pembroke Mall, at least on the same lines of redevelopment. Often times it is hard to get a developer to make the first moves because of how risky such an investment is, but once there are a few successful example, things tend to change. I have seen that happen with lofts in downtowns that originally had no housing downtown. Once that little ball gets rolling, it has a huge effect very quickly. 15 years from now the Pembroke Mall as we know it will no longer look anything close to what it looks like today.

That is just my Virginia Beach forecast from an outside perspective from someone who has had a long inside perspective history with the city.

[varider]

Thanks for the reply urbanlife. I'd also love to see the FYE/Barnes and Nobles/ Columbus Center area redeveloped... & the movie theater moved to a more urban format. I'm excited for the future of Town Center, when will the country start to build again? 2011? 2012? Phase IV is stalled, but this gives it time to secure more office tenants for the 22 floor office tower, and it may even get close to 100% leased by the time construction starts, which is great.. and would allow for the other office tower on the big parking lot to move forward quicker. Phase IV will be great, and that coupled with redevelopment of Pembroke Mall, LRT, etc. has the potential for TC to grow exponentially.

Also, RTC has a lot of stores that VBTC should attempt to bring to the town center. I saw an anthroplogie (which we have been talking about getting but uhh....) , apple store, etc. Oh, and they have a McCormick and Shmicks just like we do! I also noticed that they don't build tall buildings in Reston.. just 18-20 floors. So VBTC will likely have a better, bigger skyline in the next decade or two. The majority of our buildings are 10-40 floors. Reston is more like 5-20.

[varider]

I spent the weekend in Reston Town Center for a state FBLA leadership conference (I qualified for the national leadership conference in Nashville as well).. but the entire time I was there, I was comparing it to the Town Center of my own hometown. Basically, it's much better, bigger, more vibrant, etc. Honestly, while in Reston Town Center, I felt a vibrancy that I've never felt in Hampton Roads..which is sad seeing that I was only in a Town Center. It just irritates me that Hampton Roads can't match up with these urban areas around the country. It's my understanding that Reston is excactly 20 years old this year.. VBTC is 10 years, do you guys think that VBTC will be able to grow to the size of RTC?

[url=http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=330940&id=100000142451354]

[varider]

Constitution Drive Extended looks to be making a lot of progress. I wouldn't be surprised if it opened in the next couple months... After this project, I think the city needs to start on the restructuring of the suburban street grid in Pembroke, creating blocks.

[urbanlife]

Constitution Drive Extended looks to be making a lot of progress. I wouldn't be surprised if it opened in the next couple months... After this project, I think the city needs to start on the restructuring of the suburban street grid in Pembroke, creating blocks.

I actually agree, I think there should be some progressive and proactive moves made by the city to improve the infrastructure of the area over the course of the next five years.

[ronsmytheiii]

Constitution Drive Extended looks to be making a lot of progress. I wouldn't be surprised if it opened in the next couple months... After this project, I think the city needs to start on the restructuring of the suburban street grid in Pembroke, creating blocks.

a.) most of the cost of the extension is being paid for by the private developer.

b) Most of City road funds are being funneled to the Laskin gateway project.

So we wont see anymore road construction until Laskin is finished, and hopefully the Cleveland street flyover is complete, no use for a grid if you still only have limited entry/exit.

[varider]

Can we have some more discussion on the Pembroke Implementation Plan?

We are talking about a 165 block downtown full of dense mid-rises, skyscraping high-rises, an NBA arena, mass transit, etc. Will we live to see this?

[urbanlife]

Can we have some more discussion on the Pembroke Implementation Plan?

We are talking about a 165 block downtown full of dense mid-rises, skyscraping high-rises, an NBA arena, mass transit, etc. Will we live to see this?

Depends on if we see the city being aggressive with this plan or not. In the next ten years, if the city doesnt start buying up property and/or start working on road reconfigurations, then my guess would be there is no real push to make this all happen. The biggest issue with Virginia Beach is that it has always been a developer's city, which means the city rarely makes the first move, they simply wait for the developers to do that for them. Though with this plan it does signal that the city might be willing to be the ones to take the first steps in it, but that havent taken those actual steps yet, just on paper so far. So we are all just playing the waiting game right now.

[Shakman]

[url=http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=330940&id=100000142451354]

I hope so. But you have to understand the demographics surrounding RTC is much different than that surounding VBTC.

[ronsmytheiii]

Target Corp. acquired 9.5 acres in Virginia Beach, VA, where it plans to construct a new location. Pembroke Square Associates sold the land property for approximately $4.75 million or $495,307 per acre.

The parcel was previously used as a parking lot for the shopping center, but the seller said Target would be a perfect fit to existing anchor tenants. The new store is currently under construction with an expected delivery date in October 2012.

So Target at Pembroke mall..... why didnt they read the writing on the wall and start a new urban development? Instead just get another suburban anchor who will last at most a decade

http://www.costar.co...oke-Mall/133758

Edit: New floor plands:

https://www.pembrokemall.com/images/pdf/site_plan_2010_02_01.pdf

[urbanlife]

That is strange, definitely looks like the owners of the mall have little to no idea what they would do with all that land other than run a suburban mall even through the city has already drafted up a future growth plan for Pembroke.

I am guessing new development is going to be slow coming back to that area which is really a shame because it needs a couple massive growth spurts to really start filling itself out as a downtown for the city.

[mistermetaj]

That is strange, definitely looks like the owners of the mall have little to no idea what they would do with all that land other than run a suburban mall even through the city has already drafted up a future growth plan for Pembroke.

I am guessing new development is going to be slow coming back to that area which is really a shame because it needs a couple massive growth spurts to really start filling itself out as a downtown for the city.

I guess the city is caught in a catch 22 with the Pembroke area. They could zone the whole area for urban developments only, but then they will miss out all of these major projects since no one seems to want to build urban around town center.

The Target store is a real shame...

[metalman]

Well, in a small, tiny glimpse of urban construction The lower right inset map of the mall has two greyed out areas on Constitution Dr. that says outparcel 4 and 5 for future development.

[urbanvb]

Most outparcels are stand alone suburban type buildings but we can hope, right?

[urbanlife]

Even with just adding a new anchor, it would of been nice to see the mall doing some future planning, by placing the building in a spot that might allow an easy way to eventually cut the street through and turn the Target into a downtown block, but from the overall map, it definitely does not look like they are thinking about the long term of the mall....but then again these kinds of developments are designed to have a short shelf life before needing to be upgraded and rebuilt.

[Former Resident of HR]

I have heard mixed things about the new Target. Will it be a Super Target with a full grocery or just a plain Target? The area has a dearth of grocery stores so I could see it working.

[metalman]

https://www.pembrokemall.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=295&Itemid=57

This is from the Pembroke Mall website from June of last year. But, the quote here is pertinent to the conversation. There is more to come from the mall...positive or more-of-the-same is yet to be seen.

“This is only the first phase of an on-going redevelopment of Pembroke Mall” said Ramsay Smith, Senior Vice President of Pembroke Enterprises, Inc.. “Additional renovation and development plans will be revealed at a later date.”

[urbanvb]

I was by the mall yesterday and Target is really coming up. I am looking forward to some more development around this area.

[urbanlife]

how has that area been for the city? is it feeling more like a downtown for VaBeach for the locals of VaBeach?