Providence's wish list

[Pseudo_Work]

Drug dealers hiding behind trolleys? Are you kidding me? This is a concern?

As far as a "trackless system like San Francsico"; I am from San Francisco, and there is no such thing of trackless trolleys. There is the cablecar system which is powered by, guess what, submerged cables. Then there are a couple of electric street cars (New Orleans have the same set up) and yes there are over head wires, but there are also tracks in the street. The only trackless trolley systems would be what we already have with the Gold and Green lines.

I may be the only one who thinks this trolley system expense is really a bad idea. Why would we need to connect the train station to a hospital?! Who do we think is going to use the system? Someone who breaks their leg on the commuter train from Boston? Why would we pour money into a antiquated, frivolous system when our public transportation system is unreliable, and crumbling to the point of embarrassment. There are cuts in service, outdated shelters (if any in some cases), and a riduclous service cut off at 7pm in most cases. Who would want to take the bus with these problems?! Fix the RIPTA system first before anything else!!!!

If a trolley car system must come to Providence, then we need to analize who in deed is going to utilize it. Commuters from the East Side into downtown might, but honestly, probably wouldn't. Brown students? C'mon, are you kidding me? Someone with a medical emergency? Not a chance.

A trolley car ride is something for tourists (trust me, you would have a hard time finding a SF resident standing in line in Union Square waiting for a cable car). So with that in mind, Providence would need to place the tracks down with the mind set of a vistor from Idaho. Connect Federal Hill to Downcity to the State House and then along the canal to the future site of the Dynamo House. This will circulate people around the main points of interest in the downtown area, which needs more support of revenue than Miriam Hospital. If the system takes off, then expand into the East Side, although, I don't know where a trolley system will go...the streets are too narrow and let's face with street parking in this city being one of the biggest issues, I doubt anyone will want to give up a lane for a trolley car.

[Urbaner]

Drug dealers hiding behind trolleys? Are you kidding me? This is a concern?

As far as a "trackless system like San Francsico"; I am from San Francisco, and there is no such thing of trackless trolleys. There is the cablecar system which is powered by, guess what, submerged cables. Then there are a couple of electric street cars (New Orleans have the same set up) and yes there are over head wires, but there are also tracks in the street. The only trackless trolley systems would be what we already have with the Gold and Green lines.

I may be the only one who thinks this trolley system expense is really a bad idea. Why would we need to connect the train station to a hospital?! Who do we think is going to use the system? Someone who breaks their leg on the commuter train from Boston? Why would we pour money into a antiquated, frivolous system when our public transportation system is unreliable, and crumbling to the point of embarrassment. There are cuts in service, outdated shelters (if any in some cases), and a riduclous service cut off at 7pm in most cases. Who would want to take the bus with these problems?! Fix the RIPTA system first before anything else!!!!

If a trolley car system must come to Providence, then we need to analize who in deed is going to utilize it. Commuters from the East Side into downtown might, but honestly, probably wouldn't. Brown students? C'mon, are you kidding me? Someone with a medical emergency? Not a chance.

A trolley car ride is something for tourists (trust me, you would have a hard time finding a SF resident standing in line in Union Square waiting for a cable car). So with that in mind, Providence would need to place the tracks down with the mind set of a vistor from Idaho. Connect Federal Hill to Downcity to the State House and then along the canal to the future site of the Dynamo House. This will circulate people around the main points of interest in the downtown area, which needs more support of revenue than Miriam Hospital. If the system takes off, then expand into the East Side, although, I don't know where a trolley system will go...the streets are too narrow and let's face with street parking in this city being one of the biggest issues, I doubt anyone will want to give up a lane for a trolley car.

[Lone Ranger]

Is it really so ridiculous to connect Providence's CBD with the city's two biggest economic engines?

Also, I don't agree with the rationale behind the thinking, but I have a suspicion that Providence wants to use trolleys in the JD as an incentive to promote development, once the 195 land is clear. I know I've said this before, but I think it's more important to put rail where people already are, not where you want them to go: streetcars would do the most good in the poorer sections on the city. But I also I remember reading an article about mass transit from a URI economist who warned, talking about the possibility of more intense mass transit in Providence, that transit is only successful when it serves places that already have high levels of investment. In Providence, that would be Brown and the hospital district.

But again, Brown and the hospitals bring a s**tload of people into the city everyday, and providing quick, efficient mass transit between them and Downcity makes sense to me, and what the hell, since the JD is on the way from one end of the proposed line to the other, I guess it doesn't hurt to as a developmental tool.

[miklos]

First off, a trackless trolley is an electric bus with rubber wheels that utilizes overhead electric wires for its power source. No Diesel. They still have them in Seattle and Vancouver. We had them in Rhode Island between 1948 and 1954. By the way, there's plenty of photos from the 30s and 40s of Providence streets with streetcars, parked cars and cars in motion.

Obviously someone with a medical emergency will arrive in EMS ambulance or a car in most cases. There are probably 8,000 workers and visitors that show up each day over a 24 hour period to the various institutions in the RI Hospital district, most of which drive currently. One train station is under construction in Warwick now and a second planned for Wickford, plus there are existing ones in Kingston and Westerly, so there's a possibility that Rhode Islanders might use a train to get to the city when service is available, not just Bostonians. Once these commuters and visitors arrive by train, how would they get to the hospitals, walk?

RIPTA does have significant operating problems that everyone agrees should be addressed. The transit problem has less to do with RIPTA and more with the expansion of Downtown. Downtown is no longer a walkable Central Business District (CBD). And yes, now the hospitals are part of the CBD. It takes about 8 minutes to drive without traffic from the train station to the hospitals and if you're walking a good 20 minutes to Davol Square.

Generally in Rhode Island, as in most of the country, busses are a stigmatized mode of transportation. Busses are associated with the poor, teenagers, and the elderly. It's tough to get the middle class to buy into public transit if it comes in the form of a bus. Rail transit doesn't suffer the same reputation that bus transit does. There's four decades of data of American examples that demonstrate the success of rail transit when it's introduced. One streetcar has 3 times the capacity of a bus for the same operating expense (the operator's salary). Where rail transit has been started (light- or heavy-rail) real estate values and densities have increased. Before the Hudson-Bergen Light rail was installed the Port Authority wanted to install Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) because it was a cheaper up front cost. Studies suggested that ridership would be less with BRT than light-rail. Seven years after its initial service started ridership is four to five times that of what was predicted for BRT.

Even if all of RIPTA's financial and service problems were solved tomorrow, it wouldn't address Downtown's new size and distances. With climate change issues in the forefront it's imperative to get people to leave their cars at home. Frequent streetcar service every 5 to 10 minutes with closely placed stops if only in the Downtown area would be a tremendous first step to developing a broad public transit culture in Rhode Island.

[Recchia]

The Silver Line underground section in Boston has rubber tires and overhead wires.

[Cotuit]

The Silver Line underground section in Boston has rubber tires and overhead wires.

[mental757]

Here is a more detailed list of RIDOT projects that will see stimulus money. I have only listed the Providence specific ones here.

http://www.dot.ri.gov/documents/recovery/r...rraprojects.pdf

1) Rehabilitation of Industrial Dr., including sidewalk repairs and resurfacing, which carries Industrial Dr. over the Moshassuck River.

2) Manton Ave. Streetscape from Delaine St. to Sisson St. (0.8 miles), which includes sidewalks, crosswalks, street trees and street lighting. Other funds (Federal and City) will be used to upgrade signal at Manton Ave. and Atwells Ave.

3) Westminster St. Streetscape from I-95 Service Road No. 7 to Olneyville Square/Manton Ave./Plainfield St. (1.3 miles), which includes sidewalks, crosswalks, bicycle lanes, street trees and street lighting.

4) Construction of stormwater treatment pond at interchange of Route 6 and Killingly St./Route 128.

5) Resurfacing of Dean St., Cahir St. and Stewart St., including upgraded signals and new street lights, from West Exchange St. to Point St. (0.9 miles).

6) Repair sidewalks on Washington St. from Empire St. to Eddy St. and Westminster St. from Empire St. to 100 feet east of Mathewson St. (0.3 miles). Includes landscaping and installation of bike racks.

7) Replacement of all signage on Route 10 from Park Ave./Route 12 in Cranston to I-95 in Providence (5 miles).

8) Replacement of signage on I-95 at Exits 6-8 (West Greenwich, East Greenwich, West Warwick, and Warwick), Exit 12B (Warwick), Exists 16-18 (Cranston and Providence), and Exit 29 (Pawtucket). Contract also includes signage on Route 146 at Route 146A in North Smithfield.

9) Powerwashing of 65 of Rhode Island's 772 bridges to remove road salts, dirt and bird droppings. Includes: Cumberland, East Providence, Lincoln, North Smithfield, Pawtucket, Portsmouth, Providence, and Tiverton. RIDOT goal of powerwashing all bridges with 10 contracts every 5 years.

10) Application of striping on State roadways in Barrington, Bristol, East Providence, Little Compton, Middletown, Newport, Portsmouth, Providence, Tiverton and Warren.

11) Various traffic signal improvements including new installations, signal modifications, and island modifications in Barrington, Burrillville, Foster, Johnston, North Providence, North Smithfield, Pawtucket, Portsmouth, Providence, Smithfield, and Warren (14 intersections).

[frymasterspeck]

Stimulus Wish List Comparison from StimulusWatch.org

Providence - 81 projects requiring $585 million

Pawtucket - 9 projects requiring $6 million

Of course, that's because Pawtucket is perfectly fine and not in need of substantial infrastructure renewal.

[Recchia]

The Silver Line's wires are underground? Wow I must be oblivious...

[Cotuit]

The Silver Line's wires are underground? Wow I must be oblivious...

[Pseudo_Work]

Well the part of the silver line that is electrified is the subway portion. The above ground portions of the silver line (Washington Street and from the tunnel portal on the waterfront outbound) are not electrified at all. Diesel buses.

[Cotuit]

I sort of wonder why they didn't electrify the whole thing.

[Frankie811]

Stimulus money helps Carcieri balance state budget plan

Gov. Donald L. Carcieri today unveiled a $7.62 billion state budget proposal for fiscal 2010 that uses millions of dollars in federal stimulus money.

http://www.pbn.com/detail/40855.html

[Lone Ranger]

The package called for the corporate income tax to be reduced from 9 percent to 7.5 percent, starting Jan. 1, 2010, the first of five planned incremental steps to eliminate the tax entirely.

[frymasterspeck]

Republican free-marketer's last hurrah? Honestly, it's like this is the only idea they've ever had, can ever have and/or will ever have.

It may have some level of merit, but if this is the best a 'blue ribbon' panel can come up with, we need new ribbons. Or at least new colors.

This completely ignores the fundamental problem at the core of the state's revenue model - the nation's smallest state is largely relying on a physical-product-only sales tax with an out-of-state exemption in an age of services. Physical products in a services economy. Smallest state has out-of-state delivery exemption. Is anybody awake up there?

Over the years I've shipped about $100k worth of printed materials to clients in NH, MA and CT. $7,000 over about that many years is no great thing, but an incremental $1k from every business would be helpful.

This state BADLY needs to add an incremental tax on services. Not 7% like the sales tax, but more like 1%. Don't whine to me about having to pay it, either. I'll be paying too.

Jackass that I am, I'm approaching the state's tax policy from the perspective that the state needs revenue for stupid, porky projects like roads, bridges, schools, etc. Our blue ribbon-ers approach the same issue from an "economic development" perspective.

But that perspective relies entirely on the idea that economic development equals large employers from out of state building new facilities. Those are the kinds of employers that are extremely sensitive to taxation and a factor in selecting locations. But they're also the kinds of employers that bring in low-wage, low-education jobs and then lay everybody off without notice and move to Senegal. Those guys are in a race to the bottom. Is that a race Rhode Island really needs to win?

If you know about how our economic clusters map, you know we need more knowledge jobs. Our 'upper right quadrant' (high wage/high growth) is basically empty.

Bottom-up economic development that builds on what's already there rather than importing new "jobs" generates deeper and longer lasting benefits. What's the most efficient form of economic stimulus? Increasing food stamps. Experts refer to this kind of stimulus as "automatic stabilizers". What's the best way to grow a knowledge economy? Invest in education.

These guys are really, really, really wrong in their entire approach. Economic development centered around importing large employers creates suburbs and strip malls, starves the state for revenue and makes us unnecessarily sensitive to economic cycles. Economic development that cultivates growth mostly from existing assets creates strong communities, strong local economies and a diverse, broad-based business sector that's less prone to collapse.

[FjmArch]

Republican free-marketer's last hurrah? Honestly, it's like this is the only idea they've ever had, can ever have and/or will ever have.

It may have some level of merit, but if this is the best a 'blue ribbon' panel can come up with, we need new ribbons. Or at least new colors.

This completely ignores the fundamental problem at the core of the state's revenue model - the nation's smallest state is largely relying on a physical-product-only sales tax with an out-of-state exemption in an age of services. Physical products in a services economy. Smallest state has out-of-state delivery exemption. Is anybody awake up there?

Over the years I've shipped about $100k worth of printed materials to clients in NH, MA and CT. $7,000 over about that many years is no great thing, but an incremental $1k from every business would be helpful.

This state BADLY needs to add an incremental tax on services. Not 7% like the sales tax, but more like 1%. Don't whine to me about having to pay it, either. I'll be paying too.

Jackass that I am, I'm approaching the state's tax policy from the perspective that the state needs revenue for stupid, porky projects like roads, bridges, schools, etc. Our blue ribbon-ers approach the same issue from an "economic development" perspective.

But that perspective relies entirely on the idea that economic development equals large employers from out of state building new facilities. Those are the kinds of employers that are extremely sensitive to taxation and a factor in selecting locations. But they're also the kinds of employers that bring in low-wage, low-education jobs and then lay everybody off without notice and move to Senegal. Those guys are in a race to the bottom. Is that a race Rhode Island really needs to win?

If you know about how our economic clusters map, you know we need more knowledge jobs. Our 'upper right quadrant' (high wage/high growth) is basically empty.

Bottom-up economic development that builds on what's already there rather than importing new "jobs" generates deeper and longer lasting benefits. What's the most efficient form of economic stimulus? Increasing food stamps. Experts refer to this kind of stimulus as "automatic stabilizers". What's the best way to grow a knowledge economy? Invest in education.

These guys are really, really, really wrong in their entire approach. Economic development centered around importing large employers creates suburbs and strip malls, starves the state for revenue and makes us unnecessarily sensitive to economic cycles. Economic development that cultivates growth mostly from existing assets creates strong communities, strong local economies and a diverse, broad-based business sector that's less prone to collapse.

[Garris]

To call this tidbit interesting is an understatement. Can anybody here elaborate on this item for me?

[Pseudo_Work]

Obviously that money has to eventually come from somewhere, but in the short term, as a recent NY Times article detailed, it's a move to stay competitive with MA (which I believe just lowered their corporate income tax to 7.5%) and CT (which I think is 7%). Obviously, we couldn't stay at 9 and be competitive.

At a certain level this definitely sucks, but it's a regional, not just RI, issue. The NE has been getting killed for years economically on competitive issues like this.

As many have said, it's time to completely rethink how taxation works in the US...

[Lone Ranger]

New England should really be one state.

[Cotuit]

It's also time to rethink how New England operates as a region. It doesn't make the least bit of sense, if you ask me, to have six tiny states competing against each other for resources when the bottom line for the region as a whole is a bit bleak. It inhibits planning and operation at all levels. New England should really be one state.

[mental757]

I think the key point in all of this is to not be higher than MA & CT in terms of these taxes. We all know that RI has a lot to offer in terms of quality of life and location, but companies have boards and stockholders to answer to and selling a decision based on "but RI is such a nice place to locate to" is a tough sell when it will cost the business more than if they located 30 miles in any other direction.

[Urbaner]

I think it would be a bad idea to give up our 12 Senators. But there's no reason we can't operate more regionally and still maintain our individual statehood. We could be like the EU.

[mental757]

If there were simply more partnerships on things as simple as transportation, we'd be better off. RI & MA play nice in terms of the MBTA service, but thats about it. RIPTA should team with GARTA, and whoever is in Fall River to link systems, etc. No exhange of money (the Pilgrim partnership does call for RI to pay for new train stock, but it is needed to physically extend the service and help pay for operations) for the bus systems, just like an "interline agreement" or a "code-share" like airlines do.

[Urbaner]

If there were simply more partnerships on things as simple as transportation, we'd be better off. RI & MA play nice in terms of the MBTA service, but thats about it. RIPTA should team with GARTA, and whoever is in Fall River to link systems, etc. No exhange of money (the Pilgrim partnership does call for RI to pay for new train stock, but it is needed to physically extend the service and help pay for operations) for the bus systems, just like an "interline agreement" or a "code-share" like airlines do.

[brick]

I do not agree completely with speck, as like all things I think there is value in some diversity. That means fostering growth from the small as well as trying to nab the big, etc.

I will tell you guys this. Taxes are a problem but in recent months in talking to various people I don't think it's the big one. The problem is a combination of two things: the high price of doing business, in which taxes are a part but not close to all. That wouldn't be a problem, except for the second thing: there is a perception that there is not much talent in RI. Technical, business, etc. There is a third piece and that is that people still feel RI is in large part a bad place to do business because of corruption and glad handing.