High Point University asked to purchase Oak Hollow Mall

[cityboi]

Another Carolina Circle Mall. The death of this mall is inevitable.

[DigitalSky]

http://www.hpe.com/view/full_story/11116320/article-J-C--PENNEY-CLOSING--Oak-Hollow-Mall-location-wasn%E2%80%99t-meeting-profitability-goals--company-says-?instance=main_article Heres the story from the High Point Enterprise.

The article mentions the Sears call center in the former Goody's/Steve & Barry's and how that brings employment to the mall. My guess is Dillard's isn't going to hold on for much longer, it'll be weird though to have a city the size of High Point without a Belk seeing how they're in practically every NC city.

[StevenRocks]

Belk will stay in High Point. Maybe not at that mall, but I can't see them closing without a massive erosion of sales.

[DigitalSky]

http://www.news-record.com/content/2011/02/01/article/hpu_again_considering_purchase_of_oak_hollow_mall

The on and off again is now back on in terms of HPU considering a purchase of Oak Hollow.

[DigitalSky]

Belk may leave Oak Hollow Mall, but not the city of High Point (hmm wonder where they would relocate)

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/stock-alert/blkia_jcp_belk-may-leave-mall-1482253.html

[StevenRocks]

I think Belk would land in a freestanding location or strip mall development not too far from where they are. The new store would likely be smaller, as part of the Oak Hollow store has been closed off for years.

[jasoniman24]

I think Belk would land in a freestanding location or strip mall development not too far from where they are. The new store would likely be smaller, as part of the Oak Hollow store has been closed off for years.

I could see Belk possibly moving near the Palladium.

[DigitalSky]

I considered that too but would it be too close to Four Seasons and Friendly?

[DigitalSky]

Oak Hollow officially purchased by High Point University... for $9 million http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-story-oak-hollow-hpu-110224,0,7082497.story

Fox8 says developers built the mall for $75 million when it opened in 1995.

City leaders urged HPU to buy, the campus has a 10 year plan... it will be retail for now, eventually mixed use perhaps.

[cityboi]

This is actually good news because if the stores ever close here it won't be a dead mall. The university will find a use for it.

[StevenRocks]

I'm hoping that the university will be a good steward for the mall, or at least move Target to a better spot.

[DigitalSky]

Are you saying a better site in High Point or relocate Target somewhere else on the mall property?

[mallguy]

good grief, that's only a little more than $13 psf, excluding the 45 acres of land.

Something similar happened to McAlister Square in Greenville, SC and even though the mall basically closed down, a few stores remained (Foot Locker, etc.) and the mall was slowly turned into university space. It's otherwise frozen in time- the 1990-era mall corridors are still there.

[DigitalSky]

http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-story-high-point-university-circuit-city-110319,0,7523119.story?track=rss Circuit City is next..

[StevenRocks]

Are you saying a better site in High Point or relocate Target somewhere else on the mall property?

I think a smaller mall with Belk and Target is a possibility somewhere in town. Just being closer to the street, possibly in the old JCPenney, might help things for Target considerably.

[cityboi]

The problem with Oak Hollow Mall is that is want built in close proximity to an interstate. Its one reason Carolina Circle Mall failed even though Carolina Circle did border Hwy 29. Some may say Friendly Center isn't near an interstate but the demographics around Friendly Shopping Center over comes that. A mall in High Point is doable as long as its near an interstate and its located much further away from shopping destinations in Greensboro. A mall at the new I-85/I-74 interchange might be a good location because its easier access for people coming from Asheboro and with that site being in southern High Point, its closer to residents in Archdale, Trinity and Thomasville which don't really have a lot of shopping options. I do know there are commercial sites for sale at the I-85/I-74 interchange so its only a matter of time before we start seeing retail and restaurants pop up there. But I would recommend an outdoor life style center built there instead of an indoor mall. The life style center could a few major department store anchors as well. Some subdivisions have popped up in the vicinity so there may be enough residential in the area to support it.

[StevenRocks]

Whether or not it has a roof really doesn't matter that much. Lifestyle centers are the buzz right now, but what many forget is that the original "malls" were basically "lifestyle centers" by today's definition, although the detailing and anchors were different. Outdoor malls have just as many drawbacks as indoor malls.

I can agree that the new mall should be closer to a major intersection and shouldn't have as many department store anchors.

[cityboi]

Whether or not it has a roof really doesn't matter that much. Lifestyle centers are the buzz right now, but what many forget is that the original "malls" were basically "lifestyle centers" by today's definition, although the detailing and anchors were different. Outdoor malls have just as many drawbacks as indoor malls.

I can agree that the new mall should be closer to a major intersection and shouldn't have as many department store anchors.

I think one thing about the very nature of lifestyle centers is that they discourage local youth from using the center as a gathering place. That has been a problem at all indoor malls in the Triad but not the case with Friendly Center. Four Seasons and Hanes Mall had to enforce new rules to curb that problem. Indoor malls have a safety perception now in the wake of shootings and robberies at Four Seasons. That kind of activity is a great part in what led to the demise of Carolina Circle Mall. There were a few other reasons Carolina Circle Mall failed but the crime is ultimately what scared shoppers away. Indoor malls will be built again in the future but they are going to have to be re-invented, look less like the typical suburban shopping mall and safety needs to be addressed.

As more and more people move to the core of urban cities I think we'll start seeing the outdoor lifestyle centers being built in downtowns. The urban lifestyle centers probably won't be as large as today's big regional malls but they would have stores people are familiar seeing in indoor malls such as the Gap, Abercrombie & Fitch, Lane Bryant ect. urban malls really haven't been done yet in most cities and I believe that will become the wave of the future. Would downtown lifestyle centers drive existing downtown retail out of business? I don't think so because many of these retail establishments are not chain stores and they offer unique products that are difficult to find in the chain stores. It would actually have the opposite effect and would attract more customers to local downtown retail establishments. Its a retail cluster effect. I doubt we would see a lifestyle center or any kind of mall built in downtown High Point for several big reasons. Much of the space downtown is being used for furniture showrooms and downtown is away from any major highways. I doubt we'd see anything like that in downtown Greensboro as well because Friendly Center is only about 2 miles west of downtown. Winston-Salem however has a great opportunity to do that at some point in the future because of the limited shopping options in the city and Hanes Mall is a good distance away from downtown.

[StevenRocks]

Historically, at least as far as I can tell, Friendly Center has never been the type of mall where teens hang out. I don't have an explanation for why this has been the case, but I think it has a lot to do with the more traditional tenant mix as compared to Four Seasons in its heyday. Thruway in Winston-Salem is a similar type of store mix, which tends to repel teens and attract their parents. Four Seasons tends to trend younger and more contemporary. Hanes Mall does. too.

When I was a teen, I only went to Friendly if I needed something at Thalhimers/Hecht's or Sears, which was rare at best. It was the "old people's mall" and my perception only changed in the last few years as my tastes changed and FC's tenant mix evolved.

Personally, I don't want a downtown lifestyle center. Downtowns should be more about traditional grids and efficient and innovative use of space. Malls, by whatever name you call them, tend to draw people away from the street and decrease pedestrian activity. Shopping streets would be wise to integrate some aspects of suburban shopping, but ultimately, they should be downtowns. The development money would be better spent maximizing free parking and building multi-modal transportation hubs to bring in shoppers.

[NCMike1981]

One would think that since the trend of lifestyle centers are so popular that would have helped downtowns across the nation. Think about it...individual storefronts in an "outdoor" setting with parking (albeit parallel) right in front of the stores. But alas folks are still more comfortable with this setup out in the burbs vs in an urban setting. Plus downtowns are still hurting from the population flights of decades earlier.

As a side note has anyone been to the JCPenney recently? Have they started their going out of business sales yet?

[crowe1856]

One would think that since the trend of lifestyle centers are so popular that would have helped downtowns across the nation. Think about it...individual storefronts in an "outdoor" setting with parking (albeit parallel) right in front of the stores...

Glad I'm not the only one who's pondered the irony of fleeing urban settings only to construct fake urban settings in the 'burbs. Imagine if the resources put into creating "mainstreet" lifestyle centers were more commonly reinvested in actual mainstreets.

[cityboi]

The problem with using existing store fronts for an "urban mall" is that many of the buildings are historic buildings and the spaces are too small for many of the chain stores. Its also more expensive because the developer would have to put a lot of money into renovation and you can run into a number of problems with old buildings as we have seen with the Woolworth Building. Flood damage delayed construction on the International Civil Rights Museum. Also it would be difficult for a developer to purchase a row of store fronts for a continuous urban strip mall which I would rather not see any way. "main street" store fronts should have a mix of different establishments such as retail, restaurants, bars, clubs, ect to create real synergy on the streets. I do believe that new life style centers can be done tastefully in a downtown setting without looking fake or out of place and they can be built without parking lots unlike the suburban life style center.

Boise, Idaho has built a downtown life style center

http://activerain.com/blogsview/60413/1031-investment-opportunity-bodo-urban-lifestyle-center-downtown-boise-idaho

Some people don't agree with the idea of having national chain retail stores downtown but I think they would attract people to the center-city to shop and that would help people discover some of the more unique locally owned retail shops.

[StevenRocks]

One would think that since the trend of lifestyle centers are so popular that would have helped downtowns across the nation. Think about it...individual storefronts in an "outdoor" setting with parking (albeit parallel) right in front of the stores. But alas folks are still more comfortable with this setup out in the burbs vs in an urban setting. Plus downtowns are still hurting from the population flights of decades earlier.

As a side note has anyone been to the JCPenney recently? Have they started their going out of business sales yet?

The things that drive developers to the suburbs are cheaper development costs and the ability to control the entire project. Your typical downtown has multiple property owners with buildings of varying ages, styles and structural conditions. Not to mention parking and crime issues, both real and perceived. Even if you buy up the surrounding landowners and build fresh buildings and a state of the art parking garage, downtown development is not easy, and there's always the possibility of failure. Large scale downtown retail has a low success rate compared your typical suburban mall.

I stopped going to chain store closing sales a while back. The liquidators have a tendency to sell all the good stuff to off-price chains and overcharge for the junk that's left.

[cityboi]

I've heard FURTHER rumors from an insider that High Point University is really trying to get a football program and Oak Hollow Mall will eventually be demolished to make way for a large football stadium like Groves Stadium at Wake Forest. The footprint of the mall is perfect for a stadium (a Groves Stadium overlay was done on an aerial) and the mall parking would remain intact as stadium parking. Interesting rumor but I guess we will see what happens. For some time now this has been the speculation. I do know that HPU also wants to build an arena as well. High Point University is rapid growing and is very quickly turning into a major university.

[morehead]

A mall at the new I-85/I-74 interchange might be a good location because its easier access for people coming from Asheboro and with that site being in southern High Point, its closer to residents in Archdale, Trinity and Thomasville which don't really have a lot of shopping options. I do know there are commercial sites for sale at the I-85/I-74 interchange so its only a matter of time before we start seeing retail and restaurants pop up there.

That location is supported by a large number of low-income households and a small number of moderate-income households. It is also inside the city limits of Archdale which is challenged to service a large mall. Being far removed from the population center of High Point, and located within the Randleman Lake watershed, I'd be surprised if any development happened at that site any time soon.

Indoor malls have a safety perception now in the wake of shootings and robberies at Four Seasons.

The next mall to fall apart. Does anyone actually go there any more?

Historically, at least as far as I can tell, Friendly Center has never been the type of mall where teens hang out. I don't have an explanation for why this has been the case,...

Teen boys hang out where teen girls hang out. Teen girls don't like to hang out outside in sun, rain, or cold. They prefer climate controlled locations, otherwise they are just baking in the sun standing outside J. Crew. One of the only interior places they can "hang out" at friendly is the Apple Store, which is packed after school is out.

... and you can run into a number of problems with old buildings as we have seen with the Woolworth Building. Flood damage delayed construction on the International Civil Rights Museum.

Anyone who wants to convert a Woolworths Drug Store into a Smithsonian affiliated and climate-controlled museum is going to have "problems". Water in the basement had less to do with the delays in this project than overall fundraising, management, and programming of the museum.

The things that drive developers to the suburbs are cheaper development costs and the ability to control the entire project. Your typical downtown has multiple property owners with buildings of varying ages, styles and structural conditions. Not to mention parking and crime issues, both real and perceived. Even if you buy up the surrounding landowners and build fresh buildings and a state of the art parking garage, downtown development is not easy, and there's always the possibility of failure. Large scale downtown retail has a low success rate compared your typical suburban mall.

The things that drive developers to downtown are higher income levels and sales per-square foot, which is why downtowns in Asheville, Georgetown DC, and Charleston SC have done so well. Urban Outfitters came close to selecting South Elm Street for a store, recognizing the potential downtown Greensboro has with large student population and a historic center.

"'cityboi': I've heard FURTHER rumors from an insider that High Point University is really trying to get a football program and Oak Hollow Mall will eventually be demolished to make way for a large football stadium like Groves Stadium at Wake Forest."

This is the only site that can accomodate a stadium/sports complex anywhere near HPU without destroying (more) acres of the city.