How the Crash Will Reshape America

[AlexPKeaton]

Economic necessity will force many changes in our lives. Trying to "sustain the unsustainable" (as Kunstler puts it) will only make our problems worse. This whole mess has been a long time coming. Simple economics dictates that an imbalance will eventually reach equilibrium. Countries we outsource to will become more wealthy, and we will become less wealthy (relatively speaking) until we're roughly the same. Eventually it will be cost effective to manufacture products in the US again once we've exhausted every source of cheap labor.

I do wonder where we'd be without the housing bubble. It seems that housing was the strong point of the economy after the 2000 recession that financed whatever growth we had. Without the housing bubble I wonder if we'd have recovered from that recession yet. Certainly we wouldn't have had the financial meltdown.

[tamias6]

Allot of the problems with housing is how high mortgage payments are. $1500-$2000+ dollars a month plus utilities and insurance makes the cost of living horrendous unless the household has generous income, something that is vaporizing as fast as jobs are being cut or outsourced. One could say "Just save for a substantial down payment to cut down the mortgage payments." But the way the economy is tanking, the only people that will be able to save money are going to be the upper classes. Honestly I see no end to the housing crisis until prices come back down to within reach of people and their shrunken incomes.

The only thing saving my household from suffering the full brunt of the housing crisis is the fact we purchased a cheap old mobile home, redid it and paid it off in three years. The only thing we have to pay now is our utilities and lot rent which is allot cheaper than a house payment. Granted we are very much feeling the pinch from this economy just like everyone else. But our mobile home affords us a standard of living we would definitely not have esp. in these time if we we're slaves to a giant house payment.

[GRDadof3]

Allot of the problems with housing is how high mortgage payments are. $1500-$2000+ dollars a month plus utilities and insurance makes the cost of living horrendous unless the household has generous income, something that is vaporizing as fast as jobs are being cut or outsourced. One could say "Just save for a substantial down payment to cut down the mortgage payments." But the way the economy is tanking, the only people that will be able to save money are going to be the upper classes. Honestly I see no end to the housing crisis until prices come back down to within reach of people and their shrunken incomes.

The only thing saving my household from suffering the full brunt of the housing crisis is the fact we purchased a cheap old mobile home, redid it and paid it off in three years. The only thing we have to pay now is our utilities and lot rent which is allot cheaper than a house payment. Granted we are very much feeling the pinch from this economy just like everyone else. But our mobile home affords us a standard of living we would definitely not have esp. in these time if we we're slaves to a giant house payment.

[Mark Miller]

$1500 - $2000/month buys A LOT of house in Grand Rapids. You don't have to go that high to get a decent home. And, prices have fallen low enough now in Grand Rapid that I think if you have a steady decent job, most homes are affordable.

In relation to manufacturing, I'm with a lot of the others that we really need to foster manufacturing in the U.S. again. Maybe some form of Protectionism needs to be brought back for a while until things stabilize? It would mean higher prices on goods here in the U.S., but higher prices generally support higher wages.

[gvsusean]

$1500 - $2000/month buys A LOT of house in Grand Rapids. You don't have to go that high to get a decent home. And, prices have fallen low enough now in Grand Rapid that I think if you have a steady decent job, most homes are affordable.

In relation to manufacturing, I'm with a lot of the others that we really need to foster manufacturing in the U.S. again. Maybe some form of Protectionism needs to be brought back for a while until things stabilize? It would mean higher prices on goods here in the U.S., but higher prices generally support higher wages.

[fotoman311]

realize that doing this will result in the countries that buy our goods will but restrictions on our goods. We can go ahead and be protectionist but prices will not go up just a little. If you think clothes and electronics are expensive now...

[GRDadof3]

realize that doing this will result in the countries that buy our goods will but restrictions on our goods. We can go ahead and be protectionist but prices will not go up just a little. If you think clothes and electronics are expensive now...

[monsoon]

.....$7,200,000,000,000.00..... So, $7,200,000,000,000.00 / 138,000,000 = $52173.91 per every taxpayer.

Ain't no way I'm going to pay $52,000 dollars in taxes just so the cashier at McDonald's who got wind of this 'pay off everyone's mortgage' plan can live in a $400,000 home. Because I too would certainly go out quick and buy a house I could never afford just so the government could pay it off. 'Moral hazard' takes precedent

[gvsusean]

What should be done with the banks in your opinion?

A country that cares about having it's populace employed and remaining the world's largest economy. Protectionism is a form of isolationism.

-------------

Protectionism is an argument that the only way for the United States to survive is if it has a strangle hold on repetitive, low skill manufacturing jobs. That argument carries an allusion that we, the American people, are too unoriginal, too complacent, too uneducated to dive head first into industries not yet explored. But that's exactly where the United States revels.

The best thing the United States manufactures are new industries. We're the creative force of the world's economy. "Those who came before us made certain that this country rode the first waves of the industrial revolutions, the first waves of modern invention, and the first wave of nuclear power." We brought electricity to the masses. Furnished the world with an unprecedented level of communication; the internet. We lead the world in developing new technologies / new industries focused on the exploration of space. We can't dwell in the backwash of yesteryear. Let the countries we compete against have our excreted creations born decades ago; our economic engine relies on our ability to create anew.

We create new industries. We foster the growth of those industries. And we sell those industries to the world. My opinion is that we need to get a jump start on investing in the emerging industries before us. This financial crisis is an opportunity to flush out the old, trim the fat and begin the process of reinventing ourselves. Clutching on to industries of old will only lead us down the path of stagnation in our economy.

[arcturus]

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea doesn't understand what manufacturing means to a modern economy or the dynamics of how it works.

[Mark Miller]

A reasonable number for the total magnitude of the problem. Keep in mind the US government in the last 12 months has allocated about $2T of this $7.2T in futile attempts to fix this economy. The vast bulk of it has gone to the biggest banks who have given us little to show for it. $160M was also paid out last year in checks to the people in hopes of stimulating the economy. It stimulated the Chinese economy as studies after the fact showed that most of the money ended up there. The reason this kind of spending doesn't work now is because goods are manufactured overseas. In any case, using your numbers you are already on the hook for $14,492 and there is more to come. Add to this the other items being tossed onto the national debt and we are going to far exceed your estimates. I expect that it's eventually the debt going to equal 100% of GDP. Add BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Hyundai. It should be pointed out that in almost every case, these companies agreed to build plants here only AFTER the states and in some cases the federal government, gave them billions of dollars to do so. What other country on this planet spends this kind of money so that foreign companies can compete inside this country?

[arcturus]

The best thing the United States manufactures are new industries. We're the creative force of the world's economy.

[GRDadof3]

What should be done with the banks in your opinion?

A country that cares about having it's populace employed and remaining the world's largest economy. Protectionism is a form of isolationism.

-------------

Protectionism is an argument that the only way for the United States to survive is if it has a strangle hold on repetitive, low skill manufacturing jobs. That argument carries an allusion that we, the American people, are too unoriginal, too complacent, too uneducated to dive head first into industries not yet explored. But that's exactly where the United States revels.

The best thing the United States manufactures are new industries. We're the creative force of the world's economy. "Those who came before us made certain that this country rode the first waves of the industrial revolutions, the first waves of modern invention, and the first wave of nuclear power." We brought electricity to the masses. Furnished the world with an unprecedented level of communication; the internet. We lead the world in developing new technologies / new industries focused on the exploration of space. We can't dwell in the backwash of yesteryear. Let the countries we compete against have our excreted creations born decades ago; our economic engine relies on our ability to create anew.

We create new industries. We foster the growth of those industries. And we sell those industries to the world. My opinion is that we need to get a jump start on investing in the emerging industries before us. This financial crisis is an opportunity to flush out the old, trim the fat and begin the process of reinventing ourselves. Clutching on to industries of old will only lead us down the path of stagnation in our economy.

[GRDadof3]

We sure are, the key is to translate this into job retention as a result of our creativity, not lose it to foreign manufacturers that do it better and cheaper.

[arcturus]

this conversation has officially come full circle... It's pointless to go there, the majority of the forum feel that our future is in low-skill, low-tech, uneducated jobs...

[arcturus]

I like Warren Buffet's idea of import certificates. I'm not too keen on heavy handed tariffs since they'd be pretty harsh on foreign companies that just don't sell enough in the US to make it financially feasible to move here. But with Warren's idea, the more production we have here the less 'tax' on imports. But the more imports we have coming in, the higher the price to import. It's a self correcting system.

[GRDadof3]

I like Warren Buffet's idea of import certificates. I'm not too keen on heavy handed tariffs since they'd be pretty harsh on foreign companies that just don't sell enough in the US to make it financially feasible to move here. But with Warren's idea, the more production we have here the less 'tax' on imports. But the more imports we have coming in, the higher the price to import. It's a self correcting system.

[monsoon]

What should be done with the banks in your opinion?

[monsoon]

^No doubt production for War items brings technological revolution and advancement. I stated that above. However for a country to be successful at that, it has to have a highly developed manufacturing base. No modern war has been successfully fought by a country that did not have this or which was not allied with a country that did.

On electricity. Electricity came to the masses with the the introduction of the electric arc lamp which was installed in many cities, IN Europe, in the mid 1800s. All of the basic theory on modern electrical design also came from there. This was a direct result of Europe having industrialized before the USA. Edison's claim to fame was the electric incandescent bulb which made the very harsh electric arc lamp obsolete. He could not have produced that bulb without the industry to support it. Westinghouse won the transmission battle by pushing AC over Edison's more limited DC system. It should be noted that Westinghouse bought his AC transmission patents from Europe as they were already doing it. Westinghouse did make substantial improvements that would not have happened without the need to power Americans new industrial areas. Maybe you were not aware of this history.

Nuclear power was brought to the world by the USA, but it was at the hands of European scientists that escaped from Nazi Germany which had an highly industrialized society at that point which could support their work. The United States did not get involved in this project however until Einstein, Le

[crinzema]

For all you capitalists, CHICAGO TEA PARTY 09! I'm there in a heartbeat! I can no longer stand on the sidelines and watch socialists hijack our economy. You guys might need to pardon my French language when I speak about Obama.

[gvsusean]

Interesting article about the United States manufacturing environment.

- http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/20/business/wbmake.php

[jwazzz]

For all you capitalists, CHICAGO TEA PARTY 09! I'm there in a heartbeat! I can no longer stand on the sidelines and watch socialists hijack our economy. You guys might need to pardon my French language when I speak about Obama.

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[jas49503]

Were you standing on the sidelines when that pillar of capitalism, George W. Bush, passed out hundreds of billions to the banks? I'm guessing yes. This mess we're in has tons of fingerprints on it - Republican and Democrat. Why the need to single out Obama?

[crinzema]

Were you standing on the sidelines when that pillar of capitalism, George W. Bush, passed out hundreds of billions to the banks? I'm guessing yes. This mess we're in has tons of fingerprints on it - Republican and Democrat. Why the need to single out Obama?

[Yankee Fan]

On electricity. Electricity came to the masses with the the introduction of the electric arc lamp which was installed in many cities, IN Europe, in the mid 1800s. All of the basic theory on modern electrical design also came from there. This was a direct result of Europe having industrialized before the USA. Edison's claim to fame was the electric incandescent bulb which made the very harsh electric arc lamp obsolete. He could not have produced that bulb without the industry to support it. Westinghouse won the transmission battle by pushing AC over Edison's more limited DC system. It should be noted that Westinghouse bought his AC transmission patents from Europe as they were already doing it. Westinghouse did make substantial improvements that would not have happened without the need to power Americans new industrial areas. Maybe you were not aware of this history.

Nuclear power was brought to the world by the USA, but it was at the hands of European scientists that escaped from Nazi Germany which had an highly industrialized society at that point which could support their work. The United States did not get involved in this project however until Einstein, Le