Metropolitan, Midtown Redevelopment

[Norm2]

I remember going to that mall not long after we first moved to Charlotte. It was definitely on its last leg at that point.

[videtur quam contuor]

Colonial gave Gold Bond stamps for purchases and customers saved them to trade for items from a catalogue. Similar to Green stamps at other retailers. Colonial was at Park Road also.  Bon Marche location converted to Iveys sometime by 1970.  There was an escalator to the second floor of Iveys/BonMarche (marché=mar-shay) Bon marché in French means good price, cheap, budget. Eckerds lasted in their location for quite a while, into the 80's. Roses became a Dress Barn at some point. The location that says Store Center became a DMV location for a while.

[turbocraig]

1 hour ago, tarhoosier said:

Colonial gave Gold Bond stamps for purchases and customers saved them to trade for items from a catalogue. Similar to Green stamps at other retailers. Colonial was at Park Road also.  Bon Marche location converted to Iveys sometime by 1970.  There was an escalator to the second floor of Iveys/BonMarche (marché=mar-shay) Bon marché in French means good price, cheap, budget. Eckerds lasted in their location for quite a while, into the 80's. Roses became a Dress Barn at some point. The location that says Store Center became a DMV location for a while.

I went to that DMV once in the late 90s probably.  And I’m pretty sure that it was the Gentry House spot that was a bookstore at that point.  I recall it being very long and skinny and there were windows all along the long hallway side.  By that point it was down to those, some obscure sneaker stores, and a couple of airbrushed Tshirt and license plate stores.  Sad. 

[videtur quam contuor]

Yes to the bookstore location. Perhaps a branch of Intimate Books?

Story: Anyone recall the BBC Production and then PBS broadcast of I, Claudius and Claudius the God? It was a major hit, for public tv that is in late 70's. Based on novels of Robert Graves, which I read and his works used information from The Twelve Caesars by Suetonius, a Roman historian from about 100 CE. After reading the works of Graves I ordered The Twelve Caesars from that bookstore. A group of co-workers and I went to the mall for lunch one day and I excused myself for a few moments to check if my book was in and it was. When I returned to the table everyone was curious what I bought. I removed it from the bag and showed them. The silence was deafening. I should have said it was some romance novel and left it in the bag. (I recommend all those books)

In the middle of the mall open area was The Silver Grille, a mid century looking counter service food spot which was not an historic design at that time, just a bit late on the theme. A counter all around the central service area and red and silver stools plus a few tables. The original mall planting spots had been removed by then, early 70's.

[videtur quam contuor]

Dilworth had reached its nadir at that time. Much rental housing in older homes, the young families had abandoned even many of the better homes in the curvilinear streets which are so coveted today. Cherry was across the street, home to working class black families. I am unsure what demographics and future economics planning was available to Rouse Corporation, the developer, at the time.  

?

@kermit

[kermit]

19 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

Dilworth had reached its nadir at that time. Much rental housing in older homes, the young families had abandoned even many of the better homes in the curvilinear streets which are so coveted today. Cherry was across the street, home to working class black families. I am unsure what demographics and future economics planning was available to Rouse Corporation, the developer, at the time.  

?

@kermit

I can't offer much insight on this, I was busy playing with my HotWheels (tm) in Durham in the 70s and Charlotte might as well have been in Kansas from my perspective at the time.

I arrived in town in 2000 and Charlottetown Mall was torn down in 2006 (that DMV was one of my first stops after getting moved in). My impression of the old Charlottetown Mall was that it was a 1950s (pre white-flight) attempt to modernize retail near downtown (wow, parking!). Suburban retail really wasn’t a thing in the mid 1950s. Charlotte was compact enough at the time that the mall was probably not seen as much of a locational risk for Rouse in suburbanizing Charlotte (but I am just guessing on this). Downtown shopping still existed and the Mall site was well-sited to piggyback on downtown's still strong drawing power.  Independence blvd was made an expressway in the early 50s (I think) so I'll bet that Rouse's real estate guys thought that the growing legions of affluent eastsiders would prefer Charlottetown Mall (with lots of parking) to uptown retailers or Park Road Shopping Center (neither Eastland  or Southpark existed yet). Unfortunately none of Rouse's crew anticipated how thoroughly Charlotte's uptown workers (and retailers like Belk) would embrace sprawling subdivisions in distant East and South Meck in the 1980s.

When I arrived in Charlotte (2000) Dilworth was a well-established gentrified neighborhood (although you could still find a house for under $200k on streets like Tremont and in the low $100s on the newer streets like McDonald). We also began to see the first of the new Southend-adjacent multifamily sprout up (the condos on the block bounded by McDonald, Euclid and Magnolia replaced a large watertower on that lot around 2004ish). Uptown retail was completely dead by the mid 1980s, but the residential resurgence of intown Charlotte was well underway when Papas decided to build Midtown Square.

I think the uptown resurgence had considerably more momentum back in the early 2000s than it does now. Midtown was a natural place to build retail since  Southend wasn't really a thing yet. There was gobs of money chasing real estate since  Bank of America had consolidated its executive corps in uptown (and not in San Francisco!) and was the largest bank in the country. The Wachovia-First Union merger was complete and the giant new bank was firing on all cylinders (and building a new headquarters building!), the original Blue Line was only a year away from opening and everyone still expected a full transit build out. Midtown Square was a sure thing. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by kermit

[videtur quam contuor]

Perhaps there is a thesis to be written studying the progress of economics, demographics, income patterns, spendable wealth per head , foot and motor traffic and so forth available for builders, speculators, developers over time. The use of and quality of such data, with examples of success and failure would be interesting. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by tarhoosier

[tozmervo]

23 hours ago, KJHburg said:

The flooring brands fared much better than the retailers.

[DEnd]

On 2/12/2021 at 9:40 AM, Hushpuppy321 said:

I wonder if this site\rezoning will face the opposition that the other sites faced from the Cherry\Myers Park Neighbors or if this is a done deal since 285' & 299' Tower Heights have already been permitted by Council during previous Rezoning's in Years Past. 

I dunno about the rest of my neighbors but I, for one, am for it.   A thriving Metropolitan is great for my property value, not that it's hurt by anything in the area LOL.  The main issue I'd have, and it's not an issue with this specific project, is lack of affordable family housing.  This area probably needs upwards of 500,  3 bed condos in the 250-300K price point.  

[Hushpuppy321]

6 minutes ago, DEnd said:

I dunno about the rest of my neighbors but I, for one, am for it.   A thriving Metropolitan is great for my property value, not that it's hurt by anything in the area LOL.  The main issue I'd have, and it's not an issue with this specific project, is lack of affordable family housing.  This area probably needs upwards of 500,  3 bed condos in the 250-300K price point.  

I totally feel you on the affordable housing.  I literally would not have been able to afford the home I am in now if I hadn't purchased it back in 2014.  Prices have been increasing dramatically in Charlotte.  I actually wish I had been able to purchase it in 2012 instead of 2014 - I would have gotten it for 30k less probably.

[t_money]

3 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

I totally feel you on the affordable housing.  I literally would not have been able to afford the home I am in now if I hadn't purchased it back in 2014.  Prices have been increasing dramatically in Charlotte.  I actually wish I had been able to purchase it in 2012 instead of 2014 - I would have gotten it for 30k less probably.

Housing is up a lot everywhere!

https://www.kiplinger.com/article/real-estate/t010-c000-s002-home-price-changes-in-the-100-largest-metro-areas.html

This chart is a bit misleading I think though. The affordability index is based on median income, so even though we have a low affordability index the median-home price is still pretty high our average income must also be relatively high. Charleston has a very similar median house price but the 'affordability' is much much higher.

Guess that actually proves the point that 'affordable' housing for lower-incomes is overlooked.

[kermit]

Data from Zillow (Charlotte is the middle (green) line):

Historic US mean in this data set is home price = 2.85 x income. Charlotte was at 3.5 times in September 2019. A quick google suggests that the current ratio is close to 4.5 x MHI in Charlotte

Edited February 17, 2021 by kermit

[Urban Cowboy]

[davidclt]

On 2/14/2021 at 3:07 PM, kermit said:

Suburban retail really wasn’t a thing in the mid 1950s. 

When Park Road Shopping Center opened in 1956, it was (basically) the edge of town. My mom still chuckles every time we drive through South Park because that was the country where they used to picnic when she was growing up.

 

This site is fun if you want to fall into a map hole: Carolina Places in Time (mecklenburg.nc.us)

[videtur quam contuor]

That large empty area along Marsh Road was Selwyn Farms, described here by the Historic Landmarks Commission (about additional farms):

"By 1907, the popularity of the Jersey cow was spreading to larger-scale operations. Edgar Blackburn Moore (1871-1916), proprietor of the Selwyn Hotel in Charlotte, purchased Jerseys from farmers in Thomasboro and Durham, North Carolina, and Tennessee to create a herd for both breeding and the promotion of the area dairy industry. Moore named his establishment, located along what is now known as Marsh Road in south Charlotte, Selwyn Farms.[18] The farm was established to provide for his hotel fresh vegetables, fruits, and other foods, which he complained that Charlotte did not have the infrastructure to provide. This practice was common among hotel owners–Moore had previously been the proprietor of the Kenilworth Inn in Asheville, and had also established a farm to supply that business with food products.[19] His plans for an up-to-date and modern farm, “which might serve as a pattern for others in this section of the State,” contributed to the advancement of the dairy industry in Mecklenburg County.[20] Technological advances introduced by Selwyn Farms included milking by compressed air and a sterilizing machine, “the only one of its kind in the South except that at Biltmore.”[21] After Moore died in 1916, his herds were sold to farmers in and around Mecklenburg County at auction, thus spreading the breeding stock he had established. Later dairy farmers commented that Moore did more to improve the livestock in the county than anyone else at that time."

This property continued in the Moore family until about 1981. Horses roamed there in the 1950's and 60's according to my household historian who attended Sedgefield Elementary school which was next to the farm property. School children would go to the fence to feed the horses at recess. To the best of my memory the last family owner had lived in VIrginia and the property went to development at the end of his life. Selwyn Farms is the residential neighborhood there now. 

Source:  http://landmarkscommission.org/author/historic/ (and my memory and hers).

Edited February 18, 2021 by tarhoosier

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, davidclt said:

When Park Road Shopping Center opened in 1956, it was (basically) the edge of town. My mom still chuckles every time we drive through South Park because that was the country where they used to picnic when she was growing up.

 

This site is fun if you want to fall into a map hole: Carolina Places in Time (mecklenburg.nc.us)

My dad used to hunt all over that area (after sometimes getting permission from Billy Graham's family whose home/dairy was at the SE corner of Park and Woodlawn I believe. (1930s).  He said there used to be a rock quarry just about 3/4 mile north of there (kind of behind the Catholic Church) where they'd sometimes play.

[videtur quam contuor]

Yep, the Graham family sold the property for the Park Road Center and held the property south of Woodlawn. The dairy farm continued with a dwindling number of cows as Morrow Graham, mother of Billy, would never leave her home. More property was sold bit by bit and after she died in 1981 the last of the homeplace sold and PTL Jim Bakker moved the house to his "religious" location and it was later moved to its current site at the Graham Library. 

The home site on Park Road is now the Graham Office Park building. (I think that is the name)

Edited February 19, 2021 by tarhoosier

[videtur quam contuor]

The Selwyn Farm had gone mostly to seed by the 1970's, weeds waist high or more. No animals then that I recall. The silo from the barn stood proud and has been reconstructed on the Selwyn Farms development. Teenagers snuck through the fences to smoke pot and whatnot. As I recall the bidding for the property after the death of the last Moore was furious.  Then a recession in 1982-83 slowed things but eventually it became what you see today.

The Townes family had a farm on what is now Townes Road, between Selwyn farms on Marsh Road and the Graham property. Again, gently rolling land with streams for natural watering of stock, draft horses in the Townes situation. The Townes home lasted quite a while until the 80's at least. Selling a longtime family farmland for development is sometimes called "the final harvest".
 

(We walk among you)

Edited February 19, 2021 by tarhoosier

[videtur quam contuor]

Here is another one.

At the site windsurfer mentions above:

3 hours ago, davidclt said:

When Park Road Shopping Center opened in 1956, it was (basically) the edge of town. My mom still chuckles every time we drive through South Park because that was the country where they used to picnic when she was growing up.

 

This site is fun if you want to fall into a map hole: Carolina Places in Time (mecklenburg.nc.us)

The Places in Time site has a map of Charlotte from 1935. If one looks closely at the map there is an area bound by South Tryon, Church, Morehead and Stonewall. The names are a bit difficult to read but legible. There are three short streets named Hill, Vance and Jackson Terrace. The three Civil War generals. I have never been convinced that anyone would name a street for the nickname of a famed, beloved martyr of the "Lost Cause" and Stonewall is certainly not for him. D. H. Hill, Zeb Vance and Thomas Jackson. Only Hill remains today.  I have seen that map before and mention it now because the City is considering changing names of streets that reflect a history of enslavement. I do not expect logic and an historic map to change any minds. I accept that history is made and remade to the desires of the time.

Edited February 19, 2021 by tarhoosier

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, tarhoosier said:

Yep, the Graham family sold the property for the Park Road Center and held the property south of Woodlawn. The dairy farm continued with a dwindling number of cows as Morrow Graham, mother of Billy, would never leave her home. More property was sold bit by bit and after she died in 1981 the last of the homeplace sold and PTL Jim Bakker moved the house to his "religious" location and it was later moved to its current site at the Graham Library. 

The home site on Park Road is now the Graham Office Park building. (I think that is the name)

Thanks for the information. Both my mom and dad would've loved to talk with you about this. Dad died seven years ago March 1st, and mom this last August (94 years). Mom used to talk about the school bus she rode that traveled all the way from Carmel Road up Park, then clear out towards Matthews in order to fill for Sharon Elementary  on Sharon Road.   I guess Billy Graham road her bus. In her words, "Billy was from a much better family than ours". 

Dad was born on Princeton Ave.  Mom, in a log cabin near where Charlotte Country Day is now. 

One small item: PTL had their HQ at the old Allen house at the corner of Park and Park Rd. Extension for a while, before moving down Park Rd to near where Huntington Farms Rd. is, then out to Ft. Mill.  Forever the gypsies I guess.  Wonder if you knew the Allens. (?)

[Bikeguy]

 'One small item: PTL had their HQ at the old Allen house at the corner of Park and Park Rd. Extension for a while, before moving down Park Rd to near where Huntington Farms Rd. is, then out to Ft. Mill.  Forever the gypsies I guess.  Wonder if you knew the Allens. (?)'

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember PTL being on Mockingbird Lane ( circa 1977)   preceding  Pfeiffer College ... 

[Windsurfer]

7 hours ago, Bikeguy said:

 'One small item: PTL had their HQ at the old Allen house at the corner of Park and Park Rd. Extension for a while, before moving down Park Rd to near where Huntington Farms Rd. is, then out to Ft. Mill.  Forever the gypsies I guess.  Wonder if you knew the Allens. (?)'

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember PTL being on Mockingbird Lane ( circa 1977)   preceding  Pfeiffer College ... 

I don't remember that location.  I wonder if they had offices of some sort there too.  I know the studios were down off Park Rd. Extension near Huntingtown Farms.  They were growing so fast at that point. I don't think they even knew how much money was pouring in.

[TheOneRJ]

at home signage up

[rancenc]

Recent aerial view of the Midtown area.

 

[Blue_Devil]

Pappas Properties just bought 2.6 acres in Midtown. Not sure where though. Blocked behind a paywall.