Metropolitan, Midtown Redevelopment

[DigitalSky]

I have to say I always did enjoy going to the Home Depot design center and it was something unique for Charlotte to have, but that said I'd always go there to just look around really and don't recall buying anything there per se... Anyway, what's she square footage on this store.. 120,000-odd? square feet... i remember it being smaller than the Target upstairs because I think part of the Target sits on earth up there. But now should come the speculation of what would work there, particularly in this economy *and* for time to come. I think it could be the perfect size for a warehouse club such as Costco or BJ's, and a great location as well. Maybe it could also be subdivided adding aforementioned stores like Bed Bath and Beyond and Barnes and Noble, dunno about Belk though... it'll be interesting to see what happens!

[Commoner]

I have to say I always did enjoy going to the Home Depot design center and it was something unique for Charlotte to have, but that said I'd always go there to just look around really and don't recall buying anything there per se... Anyway, what's she square footage on this store.. 120,000-odd? square feet... i remember it being smaller than the Target upstairs because I think part of the Target sits on earth up there. But now should come the speculation of what would work there, particularly in this economy *and* for time to come. I think it could be the perfect size for a warehouse club such as Costco or BJ's, and a great location as well. Maybe it could also be subdivided adding aforementioned stores like Bed Bath and Beyond and Barnes and Noble, dunno about Belk though... it'll be interesting to see what happens!

I would think that the leases with Target and perhaps Trader Joe's contain covenants prohibiting the leasing of space at Midtown to a warehouse club or maybe even an additional grocery store. Subdividing doesn't sound like a bad idea.

Does anybody else think that the modern furniture store (I can't remember the name off the top of my head) is on deck? They always have a lot of empty space in the store.

[tozmervo]

I can't say I'm terribly surprised. The Target upstairs would be doing a booming business and I'd walk down to the Design Center to find lonely cashiers. The only thing I ever bought there was a couple of houseplants.

I've gotten the strong sense that the Target, in fact, has been beating the company's expectations for that site. Maybe a SuperTarget upfit isn't out of the question.

[Ryepow]

I am disappointed, I really liked that store. It was very unique to the city. I am sure the space would do fine split as a Bed Bath & Beyond & Old Navy or whatever but chances are whatever it may be it won't be as special as the Expo to make the trip worthwhile from Matthews, Pineville and surrounding areas since these stores are already established in these areas.

[DigitalSky]

I would think that the leases with Target and perhaps Trader Joe's contain covenants prohibiting the leasing of space at Midtown to a warehouse club or maybe even an additional grocery store. Subdividing doesn't sound like a bad idea.

Does anybody else think that the modern furniture store (I can't remember the name off the top of my head) is on deck? They always have a lot of empty space in the store.

West Elm.. haven't been there yet, wonder how it is doing if you say there is a lot of empty space there.

I can't say I'm terribly surprised. The Target upstairs would be doing a booming business and I'd walk down to the Design Center to find lonely cashiers. The only thing I ever bought there was a couple of houseplants.

I've gotten the strong sense that the Target, in fact, has been beating the company's expectations for that site. Maybe a SuperTarget upfit isn't out of the question.

I thought about SuperTarget too, but that would be an enormous SuperTarget if they took over the whole lower level space unless there could be a way to just get part of it.

I am disappointed, I really liked that store. It was very unique to the city. I am sure the space would do fine split as a Bed Bath & Beyond & Old Navy or whatever but chances are whatever it may be it won't be as special as the Expo to make the trip worthwhile from Matthews, Pineville and surrounding areas since these stores are already established in these areas.

That does seem like the most likely scenario.

[voyager12]

I think it would be cool to get a big H&M there. Or something new to Charlotte like the Design Center was. I thought Mary Newsom's suggestions on her blog had some merit. A homeless shelter or a space for artists and entreprenuers.

[DigitalSky]

I wonder if we'll see a department store such as Kohl's perhaps? I would imagine it is approximately the right size for them, and Kohl's and Target do pair their stores together in many shopping power centers.

[cltcardfan]

Mary Newsome is koo-koo for cocoa puffs. For those of us trapped in this alternate universe known as reality, her column is hilarious. Under what circumstances exactly can one imagine that happening in a power-center with Best Buy, Target, Marshall's, West Elm (owned by Pottery Barn), Staples, $400 psf condominiums, and brand new Class-A office space?

If she is actually serious I have some land in Chernobyl for sale she should take a look at too.

Edited January 26, 2009 by cltcardfan

[Guest]

Kohls was one of the rumored tenants for the Project accross Kings from Target/HDDC. Because of this I'd say KOHLs is a very good possibility.

[Andyc545]

West Elm.. haven't been there yet, wonder how it is doing if you say there is a lot of empty space there

I went to West Elm opening week. No they do not have any available space in the building. It's packed full. In fact, I talked to the manager, and there isn't enough space in there to hold the majority of the products they sell, hence why most things are special ordered or done through the catalog then delivered there or your home. When I went, it wasn't busy, but it was also a weekday afternoon.

[voyager12]

Mary Newsome is koo-koo for cocoa puffs. For those of us trapped in this alternate universe known as reality, her column is hilarious. Under what circumstances exactly can one imagine that happening in a power-center with Best Buy, Target, Marshall's, West Elm (owned by Pottery Barn), Staples, $400 psf condominiums, and brand new Class-A office space?

If she is actually serious I have some land in Chernobyl for sale she should take a look at too.

^ Pie in the Sky I agree, a shelter does not blend with the Met image, but it would be great if the city could partner with the owner and do something unique and forward thinking. An incubator for creatives would be cool, it's very difficult to get affordable space in this town for artists.

[cltcardfan]

No lender or equity partner would EVER allow that, and it would be the end of the developer's reputation and career. He could forget about credit tenants ever picking up the phone again when he calls.

[monsoon]

Given that we are talking about getting to the point of retailers closing stores and going bankrupt, what retailer is going to be able to take on a 120,000 sq ft store in that location? (using the above figure) What set of retailers would be willing to bear the expense of converting that big box to smaller space? A number of pages back in this topic I said the Met was nothing more than a strip mall dressed up in new clothes. And now it has started down the path, rather quickly I might add, that most strip malls head down, and that is closed big boxes.

Let's keep in mind there was a mall a that location with big box stores that still could not survive despite multiple redevelopment projects. The Met represents a big redevelopment. They say that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result.

[mallguy]

"I thought Mary Newsom's suggestions on her blog had some merit. A homeless shelter or a space for artists and entreprenuers."

Agreed- that could perhaps happen at Eastland, but not at a new shopping center like the Midtown one.

I recall shopping at Midtown Square (the enclosed mall that was torn down to build Midtown) and it was pretty dead- but it was just a B- or C-grade mall, while Charlotte had plenty of other A-grade malls that beat it. I think that Midtown now should do better since it has desirable tenants; the Burlington Coat Factory and Eckerd's at Midtown Square weren't anything special.

[monsoon]

.....

I recall shopping at Midtown Square (the enclosed mall that was torn down to build Midtown) and it was pretty dead- but it was just a B- or C-grade mall, while Charlotte had plenty of other A-grade malls that beat it. I think that Midtown now should do better since it has desirable tenants; the Burlington Coat Factory and Eckerd's at Midtown Square weren't anything special.

Midtown was the last, rather bad, go around for that location, which came after redevelopment from Outlet shopping (80s fad), and a redevelopment into partial office space (90s fad), and of course redevelopment from it's days as Charlottetown Mall. All of Charlotte's premier shopping of the day used to be located there. It's a very inconvenient location for this type of shopping and I suspect that after the initial hysteria over it dies off, a lot of people will head to same larger stores elsewhere. It's the reason those retailers left, why subsequent attempts to attract something different there did not work over 3 decades of trying and I suspect, is going to be responsible for the Met's decline.

If they had really wanted to put something there that might have made a difference, it would have been something with more reasonably priced residential real estate along with something unique. But a place with drive through fast food, big boxes, chain stores, a parking deck and investment condos isn't a recipe for success in this location. Somebody will build something else somewhere else that will become the new "thing" for Charlotte and we will have 6 months of mass hysteria surrounding it too and which will suck the life out of this place. Someone already said above they stopped going when Lowes opened.

IMO, the city should stay out of the property development business. The do a horrible job at it and the results never seem to turn out like they should. Sure a lot of powerful people make some money at it, but the dismal results can be seen all over Charlotte.

[Charlotte_native]

Let's do wait to rush to judgement on this project, and I'm not a fan of how they did it though I do like some of the stores being so close. The Home Depot didn't close because this is a bad development, poorly laid out development, or something related to the project itself. All of these stores are being closed, this one included, so no need to feel that somehow this project is or isn't doomed because one of their retailers is folding nationwide.

[Bikeguy]

Midtown was the last, rather bad, go around for that location, which came after redevelopment from Outlet shopping (80s fad), and a redevelopment into partial office space (90s fad), and of course redevelopment from it's days as Charlottetown Mall. All of Charlotte's premier shopping of the day used to be located there. It's a very inconvenient location for this type of shopping and I suspect that after the initial hysteria over it dies off, a lot of people will head to same larger stores elsewhere. It's the reason those retailers left, why subsequent attempts to attract something different there did not work over 3 decades of trying and I suspect, is going to be responsible for the Met's decline.

If they had really wanted to put something there that might have made a difference, it would have been something with more reasonably priced residential real estate along with something unique. But a place with drive through fast food, big boxes, chain stores, a parking deck and investment condos isn't a recipe for success in this location. Somebody will build something else somewhere else that will become the new "thing" for Charlotte and we will have 6 months of mass hysteria surrounding it too and which will suck the life out of this place. Someone already said above they stopped going when Lowes opened.

IMO, the city should stay out of the property development business. The do a horrible job at it and the results never seem to turn out like they should. Sure a lot of powerful people make some money at it, but the dismal results can be seen all over Charlotte.

Before you drive the last nail into what you're calling a DOA development, let's give the greenway, and it's connective impact, it's day in the sunshine. I for one see the proximity of CMC ( and it's 20,000 + employees), and the adjoining neighborhoods as significant supporting bases for Metropolitian's eventual success.

[mallguy]

Just adding my perspective: I'm a white-collar professional and own a place uptown. I would not shop at the mall that was torn down to build Midtown because its stores had no appeal to me; I have no interest in buying anything other than maybe socks at Burlington Coat Factory, and why drive to that location for Eckerd's or a Hallmark store or whatever used to be there when the same stores were in the Overstreet Mall, near my office?

I will, however, gladly shop at Best Buy and Target at Midtown and am sad to see that Home Depot Expo go, as will plenty of middle- to upper-income people, and when we are working long hours at our jobs, the last thing we want to do at night after we leave work (late) is to drive all the way to I-485 for the same stores. Midtown offers "convenience"-type retail for people who live uptown or in close-in neighborhoods but who don't have the time or energy to drive out to distant suburbia to get it.

If Midtown offered Nordstrom-type stores, it'd lose out to SouthPark, which has more selection, or if it offered Eastland-type stores, it'd fail, too, but it doesn't.

People who are coming from Ballantyne or wherever to shop at Best Buy- sure, they'll quit doing so unless they're already coming uptown, but for the 20,000 residents of Uptown and plenty of Myers Park dwellers, most of whom are middle- to upper-income, they'll shop at a nice shopping center but would not shop at the dive-y one that it replaced.

I was not in Charlotte in the '70s and '80s to see prior lives of that former mall on the Midtown site but would assume that it had the same stores that were uptown and at SouthPark- Ivey's, etc., and the larger stores uptown and in SouthPark probably had more selection so they won out, I'd guess.

Edited January 26, 2009 by mallguy

[nonillogical]

Let's do wait to rush to judgement on this project, and I'm not a fan of how they did it though I do like some of the stores being so close. The Home Depot didn't close because this is a bad development, poorly laid out development, or something related to the project itself. All of these stores are being closed, this one included, so no need to feel that somehow this project is or isn't doomed because one of their retailers is folding nationwide.

agreed. i have gotten a ton of use out of every store at metropolitan EXCEPT for the design center. i wish the whole development had followed a more progressive design too, but its still enormously useful for anyone living in the area. i imagine that staples will bite it eventually, because of the much more popular and accessible best buy downstairs, but hopefully something with a more unique draw will take its place.

[ScottCLT]

Someone already said above they stopped going when Lowes opened.

As did I, but not because of the location. Instead it's just the amount of selection - if this were a regular Home Depot, I would have been more often, but you just didn't have the selection at the Design Center that you do at a regular home improvement store. I went there for nails/screws, screwdrivers, etc...but their minimal selection of common things you need for projects at home made Lowe's a better choice. Funny thing actually happened today - my girlfriend went to the Design Center to pick up a product that was sold at Home Depot only (even no equivalent product at Lowe's), and they didn't have it, so she had to drive to the South Blvd/Woodlawn location to get it. So, after that experience, the next time we need something other than just home improvement basics, we would have probably gone to the South Blvd. store regardless of if this store was closing. Comparing the Design Center to Lowe's or a regular Home Depot is like apples and oranges to me.

[mad_park]

This development is just South Blvd Pavilion with the big boxes stacked on top of each other and a more treacherous parking lot to drive try to safely navigate.

[tozmervo]

...and a more treacherous parking lot to drive try to safely navigate.

I disagree. The parking garage keeps people moving slowly, and there are clear right of ways. The parking lots at Carolina Pavilion are cluster[use your imagination]s. People tear across rows, bypassing the actual driving lanes. And the three-way stop at the southern entrance is just as bad as the Charlottetowne entrance into the Target deck. And just to be clear, I'm not saying there aren't treacherous elements to the parking at Midtown, but don't underestimate how dangerous parking lots are elsewhere.

I am disappointed that it hasn't become more obvious to folks that the Kings Drive entrance/exits are a hell of a lot easier to use.

[Ryepow]

I kind of hope they don't change it to a standard Home Depot. There is already one 4 miles away on Wendover Rd. It's like a 5 minute drive between the two of them. At least the Wendover location has a outdoor garden section. I just can't imagine people lugging bags of mulch thru that parking garage.

[jednc]

Mary Newsome is koo-koo for cocoa puffs. For those of us trapped in this alternate universe known as reality, her column is hilarious. Under what circumstances exactly can one imagine that happening in a power-center with Best Buy, Target, Marshall's, West Elm (owned by Pottery Barn), Staples, $400 psf condominiums, and brand new Class-A office space?

If she is actually serious I have some land in Chernobyl for sale she should take a look at too.

I think West Elm is owned by Williams Sonoma, but I guess I could be wrong. Either way, your point is valid. It's high end and they'd rather lock the doors than be located across the street from a homeless shelter.

As for West Elm doing a good business, they may not have the same pressure as some stores. The one time I've been in there I talked with the manager and she said Sonoma paid cash (or the owners anyway) to upfit the store (granted it might not have been "cash", but they paid out of pocket, not with a loan). She said they owed nothing. Assuming all they have to cover is rent and expenses, that should give them more breathing room than say a store that took out some sort of loan to upfit their new stores....FWIW.

[QueenCityLegend]

I have never been inside this Home Depot, but I'd like to see an Aldi go in its place. I know Aldi is at least turning a profile in his early depression and a location uptown would help out the bottom line. I was in there new store in Harrisburg and it was very nice and clean. Plus it would be great competition for Trader Joe's. What does everybody else think?