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Venue Tower at the BOB - 20 Monroe Live - House of Blues/Live Nation Venue

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I might be completely off, but it seems that the $5million is the minimum that the project can cost as a part of the agreement. So as I read it in the document, it is simply saying that the project indeed meets that requirement. As I recall, the "venue" portion of the project alone will cost $5million, but we haven't really seen how much they anticipate the residential portion may cost. 

 

That's kind of how I read it too, they're stating minimums.  The document in the link (page 132) also says at least 20,000 square feet which is what I suspect was the minimum on the original agreement.  But if my math is correct, unless these 112 apartments are going to be the size of very small Manhattan hotel rooms, it will be much more than 20K square feet.  Still, I'm pretty cynical that this is going to happen.  It would be nice to see a drawing. 

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That's kind of how I read it too, they're stating minimums.  The document in the link (page 132) also says at least 20,000 square feet which is what I suspect was the minimum on the original agreement.  But if my math is correct, unless these 112 apartments are going to be the size of very small Manhattan hotel rooms, it will be much more than 20K square feet.  Still, I'm pretty cynical that this is going to happen.  It would be nice to see a drawing. 

 

My guess is this:  There was a lot of speculation some time back that there was almost no way to cover debt service on the construction costs based on the returns that could be expected for another 2000 seat concert venue plus some ancillary stuff.  Much of the ancillary stuff was, IIRC, things like an little vendors/farmers market type of thing.  Success with those projects has been varied--MoDiv seems to work, the Urban Market not so much (at least not so far).  There was probably a lot of truth to the economics not working, or at least being far too risky.  I can only speculate, but given the apparent success of some of the recent market-rate residential apartments, adding those in might be a way to make the project feasible again.  Plus it will make for a taller building, so a double-win.

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Now this is a game changer  :P   

 

I like the density, but will reserve my opinion on the design till I see the final renderings.  Let's hope the fifth time is the charm....

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I hope you like music if you live in those apts.  I like the addition of market rate housing though and the height is something to be excited about.  It doesn't look like they are going for anything groundbreaking on the design.  seems nice enough though. lots of glass with balconies.

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Now this is exciting! I'm looking right at the spot it would fill and 20 stories would really fill in the skyline. I like how it sits on the property too. If CWD de-skins 50 Monroe and they add the Hotel to the surface lot, this will be a fantastic looking area in the next few years!

 

Joe

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Now this is a game changer  :P   

 

I like the density, but will reserve my opinion on the design till I see the final renderings.  Let's hope the fifth time is the charm....

 

OMG, Jim Harger said it was a game changer in the comments. I'm going to throat punch someone. :) So are we changing from cricket to volleyball? Horseshoes to croquet?

 

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/08/20-story_residential_tower_pla.html#incart_river

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Could this have been the "game changer" that was talked about weeks ago?  Jeff-I totally agree that the words "Game Changer" have officially become overused in regard to our City.

 

I think UP'rs should try to come up with another phrase for significant developments in GR and plant them in our UP comments and see if they show up in the media or general public.

 

Anyone have any ideas for some new catch phrases?

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Could this have been the "game changer" that was talked about weeks ago?  Jeff-I totally agree that the words "Game Changer" have officially become overused in regard to our City.

 

I think UP'rs should try to come up with another phrase for significant developments in GR and plant them in our UP comments and see if they show up in the media or general public.

 

Anyone have any ideas for some new catch phrases?

 

 

"This new project will be so meta."

"Paradigm shift"

"Above the fold"

"Hotter than hot pockets"

"Epic culmination of ideation"

"A new home for thought leaders"

 

I'll keep thinking on it.. ;)

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I'm glad to see John Wheeler's name attached to it, that at least lends a modicum of credit to it.  But the whole "Bobville" concept has dragged on for years, I think i'm gonna take my I'll believe it when i see it start going up stance.  :)    Same with Karl Chew's tower on Fulton, and the CWD hotel on the other side. 

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I wouldn't doubt Karl Chew. whether you agree with low income housing or not, his strategy has worked repeatedly. I can't think of a time when he didn't do what he said he would.  He does give a ton of lead time between announcing a project and the beginning of construction.  on state street, it seems like last year that we had a community meeting regarding the development and he only broke ground a week or two ago.  I would expect him to start on that property next year some time, probably shortly before or after he wraps up the state street development.  

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"This new project will be so meta."

"Paradigm shift"

"Above the fold"

"Hotter than hot pockets"

"Epic culmination of ideation"

"A new home for thought leaders"

 

I'll keep thinking on it.. ;)

 

 

"A transformative event"

"An orgy of ideation"

"Metamorph-a-rama"

"An archetype destroyer"

"A norm-splosion"

"The bee's knees"

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"A transformative event"

"An orgy of ideation"

"Metamorph-a-rama"

"An archetype destroyer"

"A norm-splosion"

"The bee's knees"

 

Bee's knees for the win!!!!!!!

 

I found this quote interesting by Wheeler:

 

“We’re a big city with no housing,” said Wheeler, whose Orion Construction also is developing Arena Place, now under construction next to Van Andel Arena south of Fulton Street. “There’s just nothing available in this town to buy.”

 

What is he talking about? These will be apartments, not condos. And he just went on a big rant in the Arena Place interviews about not buying a condo, but instead renting an apartment.

 

I do agree with the sentiment though. There are only about 36 condos on the market downtown right now. Not a lot to choose from.

 

edit: correction, 16 will be condos.

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"This new project will be so meta."

"Paradigm shift"

"Above the fold"

"Hotter than hot pockets"

"Epic culmination of ideation"

"A new home for thought leaders"

 

I'll keep thinking on it.. ;)

 

I'm just glad no one ever says "shovel ready" anymore.  You used to hear it all the time and I never understood what it's supposed to mean.  I think it means someone went out to True Value and bought a shovel.

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I wouldn't doubt Karl Chew. whether you agree with low income housing or not, his strategy has worked repeatedly. I can't think of a time when he didn't do what he said he would.  He does give a ton of lead time between announcing a project and the beginning of construction.  on state street, it seems like last year that we had a community meeting regarding the development and he only broke ground a week or two ago.  I would expect him to start on that property next year some time, probably shortly before or after he wraps up the state street development.  

 

No news since Dec 5th when their request for tax credits were denied.  Supposedly they were to resubmit the request in February but apparently didn't.  Sounds dead to me.

 

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2013/12/plans_for_37_million_downtown.html

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I'm just glad no one ever says "shovel ready" anymore.  You used to hear it all the time and I never understood what it's supposed to mean.  I think it means someone went out to True Value and bought a shovel.

 

In theory, the term makes sense to me: The project is completely ready to go, except for one (and only one!) blocking factor - everything else is resolved.

 

"The road reconstruction is shovel ready, pending funding from the state. All of the environmental assessments and other studies have been completed, and the engineering plans have been drawn up."

 

"This shopping center is shovel ready, except for that cumbersome environmental review. We have tenants signed, financing guaranteed, and zoning approval."

 

In practice, of course, I'm guessing that it's often bandied about carelessly. :shok:

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My favorite comment to the mLive article:  "Hopefully, though, they won't all be "market rate".  The city should require that a portion in every building are reserved for people with lower income."  Seriously?  More low income housing?  Why does no one say that when a new subdivision is proposed in Cascade or Byron Center?  It hurts to say it, but low income persons don't really help move the area forward from an overall development perspective.  No one (except Family Dollar or Dollar General) does a market feasibility study and says, "Well, there's lot of subsidized housing nearby--let's set up shop."  A few projects like this really could do by shifting the income demographic to a high enough point that the area begins to look more attractive to retail development.  Maybe Meijer could buy out that overpriced urban market and fill it with the same quality of product at half the price.   :scared:

 

Still, I would like to see them throw a five story parking ramp right under the housing.  More height, baby.  More height. And I will give them credit, even if it isn't terribly interesting, I do not see remesh or corrugated aluminum roofing for siding anywhere in the drawings.  And I love to see more market rate housing the area.  Nice.  It would be so nice to not live in the middle of everything, yet 15 minutes from anything.  Next project:  Free 2 hour parking everywhere after 6PM, except "event nights" near the arena.

 

As for Karl Chew's low income project on Fulton, no tax credits.  Boohoo.  Haven't heard if anything happened since.  We can only hope it's in the dustbin of bad ideas.

Edited by x99

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In all seriousness and game changing aside, it would be a nice project in that spot. I hope to see a Christmas tree get topped off on the steel some time in 2016? I just hope this isn't iteration #7 of an idea to do something with that parking lot.

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Lest I be accused of piddling in everyone's Wheaties during this 'Faust-like' celebration, I'd be remiss if I didn't offer a mention about onsite parking in high-rise residential projects by way of a short story.  A few weeks ago I replied to a question on a similar type urban life forum (rhymes with Gritty-Bata)  The post was from someone who was giving serious consideration to relocating to a downtown high-rise.

 

He asked what kinds of lifestyle changes he could expect going from the burbs to downtown livin'.  I felt somewhat qualified to offer an opinion based on owning that kind of property in Portland for some fifteen years, and recently acquiring a place in the city he was asking about.  I told him the first thing you need to come to terms with is everything you do venturing out will take twice as long as it does in a single family home.  Three sets of doors each way,wearing enough clothes not to scare the neighbors in the hallway, elevators that need hailing, parking ramps and garage access to negotiate, etc. etc.  This is in the best of worlds with (if you're lucky) your parking spot steps away from the elevator.  Getting groceries in and out of the car, even just popping down to a place that is too far to walk turns into a bit of an excursion.  Not insurmountable, but far more tedious than strolling out to your attached garage in a single family home.

 

Even in city such as Portland that has tremendous mass transit infrastructure and vibrant commercial goods and services available often just blocks away, even in a town cited as a model for new urbanism the sad fact remains you need a set a wheels to get around and how handy those wheels are to get at matters. Lots.

 

I don't like garages any more than anyone else, but unless the developers can persuade someone who cut a six figure check for a condo that it's no big deal to sashay down to your offsite parking spot at O-Dark hundred in mid-January while it's five below, it seems there's a disconnect between developing (and I'll include the Parking Commission) and residing.

 

Also, as long as I'm no doubt being pegged as a 'hater', am I to understand the entertainment portion of this will be developed by the same folks responsible for the similar project found in Charlotte?   Anyone been down there lately?  I visited a few years ago and it appeared the shine was coming off the apple.  Perhaps things have changed but as I understand it, like so many concocted hot spots (such as in Kansas City and others) in the fever to make it nice, clean and family friendly, the soul (if there ever was one) was sucked out, leaving little more than a typical suburban strip mall in a different configuration.

 

YMMV

Edited by Kib

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Lest I be accused of piddling in everyone's Wheaties during this 'Faust-like' celebration, I'd be remiss if I didn't offer a mention about onsite parking in high-rise residential projects by way of a short story.  A few weeks ago I replied to a question on a similar type urban life forum (rhymes with Gritty-Bata)  The post was from someone who was giving serious consideration to relocating to a downtown high-rise.

 

He asked what kinds of lifestyle changes he could expect going from the burbs to downtown livin'.  I felt somewhat qualified to offer an opinion based on owning that kind of property in Portland for some fifteen years, and recently acquiring a place in the city he was asking about.  I told him the first thing you need to come to terms with is everything you do venturing out will take twice as long as it does in a single family home.  Three sets of doors each way,wearing enough clothes not to scare the neighbors in the hallway, elevators that need hailing, parking ramps and garage access to negotiate, etc. etc.  This is in the best of worlds with (if you're lucky) your parking spot steps away from the elevator.  Getting groceries in and out of the car, even just popping down to a place that is too far to walk turns into a bit of an excursion.  Not insurmountable, but far more tedious than strolling out to your attached garage in a single family home.

 

Even in city such as Portland that has tremendous mass transit infrastructure and vibrant commercial goods and services available often just blocks away, even in a town cited as a model for new urbanism the sad fact remains you need a set a wheels to get around and how handy those wheels are to get at matters. Lots.

 

I don't like garages any more than anyone else, but unless the developers can persuade someone who cut a six figure check for a condo that it's no big deal to sashay down to your offsite parking spot at O-Dark hundred in mid-January while it's five below, it seems there's a disconnect between developing (and I'll include the Parking Commission) and residing.

 

Also, as long as I'm no doubt being pegged as a 'hater', am I to understand the entertainment portion of this will be developed by the same folks responsible for the similar project found in Charlotte?   Anyone been down there lately?  I visited a few years ago and it appeared the shine was coming off the apple.  Perhaps things have changed but as I understand it, like so many concocted hot spots (such as in Kansas City and others) in the fever to make it nice, clean and family friendly, the soul (if there ever was one) was sucked out, leaving little more than a typical suburban strip mall in a different configuration.

 

YMMV

 

I missed that mention. Are you talking about North Carolina Music Factory in Charlotte? I think that's owned/run by Live Nation, which would be pretty big news for Grand Rapids if they signed to run The Bob addition. Or is it just the NC Music Factory developers?

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I missed that mention. Are you talking about North Carolina Music Factory in Charlotte? I think that's owned/run by Live Nation, which would be pretty big news for Grand Rapids if they signed to run The Bob addition. Or is it just the NC Music Factory developers?

No, I thought there was a mention of the EpiCentre.  Probably another hallucination on my part...  :dontknow:

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No, I thought there was a mention of the EpiCentre.  Probably another hallucination on my part...  :dontknow:

 

No, it's quite possible they could have mentioned EpiCentre in one of the interviews. I haven't watched any of them. And I wasn't at the city commission meeting either.

 

I've read here on UrbanPlanet in the Charlotte section that indeed the "shine has come off the apple." :) Sounds like it has had a rough go a few years ago with fights and violence, police calls, underage drinking, went into foreclosure before it was completely finished, etc..

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/05/13/4907097/epicentre-sold-to-calif-real-estate.html#.U_3GNGN2jk0

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/man-left-with-brain-damage-after-violent-epicentre/nGzfK/

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In theory, the term makes sense to me: The project is completely ready to go, except for one (and only one!) blocking factor - everything else is resolved.

 

"The road reconstruction is shovel ready, pending funding from the state. All of the environmental assessments and other studies have been completed, and the engineering plans have been drawn up."

 

"This shopping center is shovel ready, except for that cumbersome environmental review. We have tenants signed, financing guaranteed, and zoning approval."

 

In practice, of course, I'm guessing that it's often bandied about carelessly. :shok:

 

Yes.  I understand the theoretical meaning, but to me it's a non sequitor.  You would only use the term if you're trying to say you're ready to break ground, but can't actually break any ground because of whatever it is that's stopping you, which makes the term useless.  If you're "shovel ready, pending [bLANK]," you're not really shovel ready.

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