Jobs in Michigan

[rayosunshine12]

Is the lack of jobs in Michigan really that bad?

I've just recently become unemployed and am beginning to feel the wrath of the bad economy.

Im not college educated and don't feel the need to put thousands of dollars into schooling that I "might" use. But do I not have a choice?

what do you think? is college something that is needed to get a good job in this bad economy? or is it possible to start with a crappy job and move up from there, to get into better positions a year or so down the road?

Just looking for some opinions. thanks.

[Allison Slater]

It is possible to make an okay living without a college education, but that is done by either finding quickly-disappearing factory work or by starting at a low-income job and slowly moving one's way up through management. The competition for such opportunities is very intense, however, and I would not make an attempt to depend on such for a living.

In the new economy, college education is key. The fun part, however, is that there are many jobs out there that may not require a -specific- degree, but rather just look to see if you have received -a- desgree in college. They may not pay as well as jobs which require specific ones, yet they are still certainly better than anything acquired via a high school diploma; a certification which is nearly useless in the modern economy.

Appended:

As for the state of the economy, I am assuming West Michigan is at about average, if not slightly ahead of the rest of the nation. The major factors injuring the economy right now are the housing crisis. Grand Rapids has very affordable housing, so the effect here shouldn't be as bad, especially considering we got a head start on this issue. The other factor mostly hurting Michigan is the collapse of the auto industry. The auto industry failure is a major reason why Michigan has the highest (or did I read the Rhode Island beat us recently?) unemployment rate in the state; although, the auto industry failure is felt mostly on the east side of the state and has not had as much impact on the west side of the state.

It's been mentioned in several topics around here that the economy here is just changing. High School-level education just isn't adequate to make a living from anymore. The economy is shifting towards the creative industry, requiring college education.

[francishsu]

Is the lack of jobs in Michigan really that bad?

I've just recently become unemployed and am beginning to feel the wrath of the bad economy.

Im not college educated and don't feel the need to put thousands of dollars into schooling that I "might" use. But do I not have a choice?

what do you think? is college something that is needed to get a good job in this bad economy? or is it possible to start with a crappy job and move up from there, to get into better positions a year or so down the road?

Just looking for some opinions. thanks.

[francishsu]

Oh, and to answer your first question.. yes, the lack of jobs is pretty bad in Michigan.

I did come across the Michigan "No Worker Left Behind" government site, which looks pretty interesting for anyone looking at a career change. By county, it reveals which types of jobs are most in demand and includes information such as average salary.

No Worker Left Behind - What are the High Demand jobs in My Area?

[rayosunshine12]

I've been looking into Everest institute. There suppose to be hands on, to get you right into the career of your choice. But like I said before it's going to be a lot of money that I don't have. Im 21, living paycheck to paycheck (at least I was, now Im waiting for unemployment).

I dont want to put myself into debt for the rest of my life just to have a "better" chance of getting a better job. Once again, no guarantee's.

I've got the experience of management and food. that's the best I got. So my assumption is to keep working crappy/mediocre jobs until I get the experience of a better paying/ more fulfilling job.

that's what Im kinda getting so far from you guy's, right?

[Allison Slater]

You could do that, but your chances of getting a better-paying job by moving up within a company will both take longer than pursuing a college education, and have what I would assume to be less chances of actually working in your favor in the long run. As I said, there are many employers out there who do look for -a- degree in college, not any specific one.

[rayosunshine12]

So, I loose time or I loose money. It's a loose loose situation. Making it my choice. which one means more? Time or money?

[Veloise]

ROSS, if I were in your shoes (and I am aware of your particular circs), I would check out GRCC for a base-level program. Take a variety of classes for a few semesters, "try on" various career/avocation paths.

The (food) service industry will always be around, but whotheheck wants to be dependent on out-of-town bosses with landlord issues?

College doesn't necessarily provide vo-tech training. It does help teach you to think. An associates degree would go a long way towards a long-term career path.

HTH

(has a BS and several terms of grad school in urban planning which I am not using...)

[joeDowntown]

To play devil's advocate here, when I'm hiring, I could care less if someone has a college degree. I look at work experience and anything else that might give them (and more importantly, me) a competitive advantage. The only thing a college degree says to me is that somebody can finish what they've started. Other than that, it's all about how I can plug you in and see immediate results. A college education might help get you to the starting line, but it definitely doesn't give you an advantage in my book.

I find it interesting that when listening to the radio, watching TV, browsing the Internet, I see a high percentage of "Be a Phoenix", "Invest in Yourself", etc. ads. Before throwing money at education as a lifeline, people should take a long hard look at themselves and figure out what they want to do. Then go at it with reckless abandon. Remember, colleges and Universities are in the business of selling diplomas. Sure, you *might* get something out of it, but I see a lot of highly educated people that couldn't problem solve their way out of a room with eight doors.

Joe

[rayosunshine12]

Before throwing money at education as a lifeline, people should take a long hard look at themselves and figure out what they want to do. Then go at it with reckless abandon.

[GRDadof3]

I'm with others that to go into huge debt to get a 4 year degree is not a wise decision at this point. Go to GRCC and get information on different career training they have. A lot of times, they have partnered with local large companies and provide exactly the kinds of training you need to get an (entry level) job there. Then, if you bring a lot of well-rounded skills to that job, with an associates or advanced certifications in that area, you stand a chance of being promoted.

[francishsu]

I think it's a tough call. 21 years is pretty young, and investing yourself in the four year college program should not be ruled out before taking an exhaustive look at all your school options and what financial aid you would be eligible for. And actually, in a very bad economy when it's the most challenging to find a good job, going to college is not a bad idea.

Like I said before, I would visit more schools, get all the information you can, and then decide whether it's for you. This can be done while looking for and working at another crappy job, so there's no excuse to simply rule it out because you know it's going to be expensive. Also, I'm sure I'm biased against vocational schools, but I would aim higher than a place like Everest Institute at the age of 21.

[rayosunshine12]

But it also depends on what kind of job/career you are trying to get into. does it not?

My question is what kind of job do you have Joe?

[arcturus]

Also, I'm sure I'm biased against vocational schools, but I would aim higher than a place like Everest Institute at the age of 21.

[joeDowntown]

Writers, media buyers (online advertising), web developers, graphic designers, project managers, etc.

I also agree that it is a shame for people to look down on vocational schools. There are many jobs that you can't learn from college, nor do you need to be couped up for four years in a classroom situation. A couple of positions that always pop in my head: Where do you learn Search Engine Optimization / PPC management? I doubt you can learn it in school but it is an incredibly complex and sought after niche. Also, Flex and Flash developers. I've seen people put "cute" little samples on their resume, but what better experience could you get than doing developing real-world apps that actually solve a problem.

I actually think vocational schools are a very smart way to go for people who are getting into technology based jobs. The only problem is the negative perception of such schools, and the dumb advertising of some of these places (PC Pro Schools for example).

Joe

But it also depends on what kind of job/career you are trying to get into. does it not?

My question is what kind of job do you have Joe?

[rayosunshine12]

So if I wanted a job in writing, I wouldn't need to go to college. Even if my grammar and spelling weren't the best? or would it not be possible until it improves. Because that is a job that I have always been interested in but Ive just never been great with spelling or grammar. I'm always writing poetry, and thought it might be possible to make it into something more.

Just an idea of course.

But that is good to know. Because I am not one to sit in a classroom, while I find myself daydreaming while the teacher is teaching. hehe.

You guys are great. You are giving me a little more hope. Even if I can never be a writer.

[LowLax]

Ray,

You might be interested in listening to this:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2008/12/hea...knows_best.html

[Explorer55]

At 21, someone is usually as free and flexible as they will ever be. Take advantage of that. Assess your skills and interests, and try to determine what you really want to do. And check out the book "What Color is Your Parachute" by Richard Bolles (you can find copies in libraries). Or go talk to a career counselor. There are probably community colleges or non-profits who provide no-cost, low-cost counseling (or classes) for those who can't afford private counseling. Just don't plod along until you wake up at 30 and realize your freedom to choose is greatly diminished because of financial and family commitments.

College may not appeal to you, but you could take a few classes at a community college for relatively low cost just to check out the "concept" of college first hand (although I think most 2 year colleges are different from major 4 year colleges). Or look at the technical vocations that may seem interesting and talk to people who do those jobs to find out how they got the jobs they have. Some maybe went to vocational schools or others were lucky enough to get on the job training or apprenticeships. And if some did attend vocational schools, they can probably give you insights as to which ones are worthwhile or not. Make it at least a part-time job to evaluate what you want to do and find a way to do it, while you are at the age you are.

Btw, to stick up for college, I did the 4 year undergrad and 2 grad school stint in 6 years. Yes, I made sacrifices (no car until after grad school, shared apartments and houses with several other students, spending money on pizza delivery was a splurge, no trips to Aruba for spring break, etc.), but I don't regret one minute of it. When I was 23, I was done with my formal education, and all these many years later, am still in the field I got my grad degree in.

[AbsoluteGR]

ROSS, if I were in your shoes (and I am aware of your particular circs), I would check out GRCC for a base-level program. Take a variety of classes for a few semesters, "try on" various career/avocation paths.

The (food) service industry will always be around, but whotheheck wants to be dependent on out-of-town bosses with landlord issues?

College doesn't necessarily provide vo-tech training. It does help teach you to think. An associates degree would go a long way towards a long-term career path.

HTH

(has a BS and several terms of grad school in urban planning which I am not using...)

[Coleco]

I personally think that this is a good way to go. Rayofsunshine, your situation is almost a mirror image of my own situation a few years back. I worked at a plant that made car parts and just before they closed down, I decided to start at GRCC just to see what interested me. Luckily, I caught a break and was able to find part time work while I attended school. While attending school, I learned the ins and outs of the job and was moved into management. Today, I am one semester away from recieving my associate's degree and I have management skills, which will be helpful when I move on to Human Resources. There is no reason why someone who is motivated to do so, can't do the same thing. Only two years ago I was in a completely different place. It definitely sounds like you are motivated and I totally think that it could work for you!

[suydam]

Really? I've read different.

From a number of sources that don't make "too many assumptions and leave out too many factors." (quoted from your link)

[Veloise]

...The Chronicle link was to point out that maybe the original poster would not benefit from college like the other people discussed in that link. I don't know him so I don't know.

...

[suydam]

i r purty darn edumacated.

1. Michigan does have the highest unemployment rate. (My education helped me figure that out)

2. I am not.

[GRDadof3]

I don't think a four year degree is for everybody. I don't even think a four year degree in many of the programs offered at our universities are good for most.

However, the unemployment rate for people in Michigan with some kind of advanced degrees is about 3% I believe. Those with high school diplomas only is about 12 - 15% IIRC.

[MuskeMI]

I think the common-sense approach is to firstly figure out what you want to do with your life. If you have to take a few classes at CC, do it. But, now is not the era to go enroll in college to "find oneself." Once you know what you want to do - poetry, nursing, auto repair, whatever - figure out how to educate yourself. Talk to employers where you might want to work one day - ask them what training they would want to see in an applicant.