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More buildings to be torn down in the LaGrave/Sheldon/Cherry St area

GRDadof3

By GRDadof3
in Grand Rapids

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suydam Hamlet

suydam

Posted
Posted

I know they're pretty old buildings and my heart aches to see stuff like that torn down.

But in the grand scheme of things, we're invoking the desire to attract millenials, sense of place, and neighborhood master plans for buildings living in a literal sea of asphalt.

Is this really the place to make a stand? Maybe it is, but I don't think so.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/egrmillers/3360278599

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d8alterego Whistle-Stop

d8alterego

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Thank you for the great idea. I plan on doing my part and I hope others will too. I want these buildings preserved.

Everyone who has a strong opinion about the demolition of these two structures needs to write or email a letter to the planning commissioners, the city commissioners and the planning director. Flood them with letters. Once this project gets put on the meeting agenda, go the the meeting and voice your concerns. It should be on at least one meeting agenda at some point in time.

By becoming and remaining vigilant with this kind of stuff you will have a voice. Remember the people who are making these decisions need to be kept in line and it is going to take a grassroots mandate to force them to look at other alternatives...they will not do it on their own.

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jas49503 Hamlet

jas49503

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I know they're pretty old buildings and my heart aches to see stuff like that torn down.

But in the grand scheme of things, we're invoking the desire to attract millenials, sense of place, and neighborhood master plans for buildings living in a literal sea of asphalt.

Is this really the place to make a stand? Maybe it is, but I don't think so.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/egrmillers/3360278599

I agree, I'm all for preserving old buildings but if there was ever an argument to sacrifice a historic structure for the sake of redevelopment, this is it. these two buildings are not part of any neighborhood and are holding a perfectly good block hostage for some sort of development. Of course, I reserve the right to change my mind after seeing what they are planning to redevelop it into. It would hopefully be an improvement for the area, removing the parking and enriching the street front.

That photo is actually flattering for the area. if you use the birds eye view on maps.live.com, you get an even more depressing view of the area.

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GR_Urbanist Burg

GR_Urbanist

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I agree, I'm all for preserving old buildings but if there was ever an argument to sacrifice a historic structure for the sake of redevelopment, this is it. these two buildings are not part of any neighborhood and are holding a perfectly good block hostage for some sort of development. Of course, I reserve the right to change my mind after seeing what they are planning to redevelop it into. It would hopefully be an improvement for the area, removing the parking and enriching the street front.

That photo is actually flattering for the area. if you use the birds eye view on maps.live.com, you get an even more depressing view of the area.

We can hope all we want, but nothing about these guys gives me anything to be hopeful about seeing that step 1 of their grand idea is to flatten these structures.

Shame that this perfect area for downtown development seems to have totally fallen into the laps of people that are so clueless about urban design. Can you imagine if HH fell into these clown's hands?

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Mark Miller Whistle-Stop

Mark Miller

Posted
Posted

I know they're pretty old buildings and my heart aches to see stuff like that torn down.

But in the grand scheme of things, we're invoking the desire to attract millenials, sense of place, and neighborhood master plans for buildings living in a literal sea of asphalt.

Is this really the place to make a stand? Maybe it is, but I don't think so.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/egrmillers/3360278599

You make a good point. These are two buildings surrounded by asphalt, a veritable island in a sea of nothingness. They are just sitting there impeding redevelopment of something new and clean and pretty, maybe even something that will be cool and be the kind of funky urban that we all desire. But we can not expect that these forces will make something better, we have absolutely no precedent that anything like that will happen. We have only clumsey attempts at cartoons in almost all cases.

Is this the place to make a stand? Absolutely... for all the reasons previously mentioned (attraction of millenials, sense of place, sustainability). We want to make authentic urban places... and amazingly these already are authentic urban places. They are the last remaining remnants of authentic urban places in the whole block. The last remaining marker of when we actually knew how to build real places. To lose them only further degrades the place. These should be built upon to make the place better, not torn down to make the place more sterile.

Every loss of fabric like this makes the city worse, not better. We have no current capacity to build at this level. Maybe the proposed buildings will prove me wrong, but I am 98.7% sure that they will not and at the end of the day, when these are gone, sitting in a landfill, we will have a new building - still sitting in a sea of parking, but with clean facades and plastic details which is more of a cartoon than an urban building.

Our city will be worse off, our fabric will be worse, our sense of place will be further lost, our connection to the past will be more tenuous and we will be wondering what the hell went wrong. There is absolutely no reason why we should not be building on all the vacant spaces in this area, rather than building over the only thing that is left that is worth a damn.

So yes, make a stand here. This is indeed the place to make a stand, just like any other place that is like it. Building by building and block by block.

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AlexPKeaton Burg

AlexPKeaton

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These two buildings are not part of any neighborhood and are holding a perfectly good block hostage for some sort of development.

Are the buildings holding the block hostage, or are the parking lots? Why tear down something for redevelopment when there are acres and acres of open land next door? These buildings may be in the middle of a sea of parking, but if the intent is to bring a neighborhood feel back to the area, tearing them down for a new structure has zero net gain.

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gvsusean Burg

gvsusean

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I e-mailed the Mayor and he pretty much blew me off. He said he would vote to have people in the area as opposed to old buildings. I responded in telling him that the buildings are inhabited they are not abandoned blight and that with this one is opinion is not for the people but rather the 9-5 crowd, he failed to respond to that one

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fotoman311 Burg

fotoman311

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Has there been a definitive statement that these buildings would be torn down? All the Mlive article states is that "The building will be built on a parking lot that has four buildings on its eastern edge."

You are right. But, the next sentence, "None of the buildings are considered historic, and the property lies outside of the Heartside Historic Preservation District, Dziadosz said." strongly implies that they will be torn down.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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You are right. But, the next sentence, "None of the buildings are considered historic, and the property lies outside of the Heartside Historic Preservation District, Dziadosz said." strongly implies that they will be torn down.

That's how I understood it too. It's a PR statement to not raise anybody's ire. The fact that they aren't historic wouldn't matter at all if they weren't going anywhere.

Does anyone know if this consolidation will actually add jobs? Other than the short term construction jobs?

Also, does anyone have any idea how much it would be to move a building like the Perry?

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Mark Miller Whistle-Stop

Mark Miller

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Posted

I e-mailed the Mayor and he pretty much blew me off. He said he would vote to have people in the area as opposed to old buildings. I responded in telling him that the buildings are inhabited they are not abandoned blight and that with this one is opinion is not for the people but rather the 9-5 crowd, he failed to respond to that one

Seriously? .....He would vote to have people in the area.

He doesn't know there are people in the area already? Or maybe doesn't care.

Maybe they aren't the right kind of people in the right kind of building.

I would recommend flooding his office with emails, just as GVSUsean did (good job BTW), informing him that there are already people there and that there is plenty of vacant real estate that should be developed to get MORE people there.

Maybe encourage him to stroll down there and engage his constituency a bit.

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dbrock1046 Unincorporated Area

dbrock1046

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After reading all the replies to this thread I must say my opinion of this development has changed greatly. At first I saw no use in two buildings standing in the middle of nowhere, but after listening to people's opinions I must say I agree with the fact that if anything should be developed it should be the parking lots sitting all around these awesome buildings. I have always thought these where beautiful buildings.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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FWIW, the sale price of 211 LaGrave (the Perry) was $903,750 back in Nov. 07. I would imagine that's what similar apartment buildings would go for in that area (on Jefferson or in HH). Hardly a blighted worthless piece of property. And since it's only on a 10,000 sf (less than 1/4 acre) site, the value can't all be in the land.

It would be helpful for someone to draft a letter that everyone could copy & paste plus recipient email addresses and names.

Sounds like a good idea arcturus. Want to give it a shot?

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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me too! don't let them tear it down!

although I'm not sure there's much we can do... :(

One thing that usually helps in these situations is to put yourselves in the shoes of the other person. They're not doing anything criminal. They don't even really think they're doing anything wrong (they're probably not fans of urban planning). They know that they want to consolidate three agencies, which has probably been in the works for some time. They're all non-profits that provide services to low-income individuals, so they're probably cut from a different cloth than some nameless out-of-state cut throat CEO's. They're trying to get federal stimulus money, which means they are on a tight time frame to firm up their plans.

It might help to provide some alternatives to them.

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Nitro Burg

Nitro

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i'm curious - what do you mean by "shooting from the hip?"

Well, it seems that they're going through a lot of growth and buying up (and tearing down) buildings at an accelerated rate. The old German restaurant and the building further south included. Do they have a comprehensive master plan or are they just reacting to what comes up on the open market?

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