Marriage in NC

[Norm2]

Apparently a group has started a website that aims to have marriage in NC defined as one man and one woman in state law. Their website is www.nc4marriage.org , unfortunately I am unable to really look at the site because I am at work, but it looks like they have several youtube videos and blogs and such to promote their view. I do not agree with their view and so far NC is the only southern state that does not have marriage defined as "one man one woman" by state law. Looks like there might be a serious movement to do this though. Thoughts?

[monsoon]

Probably won't happen with a Legislature and Governor's office controlled by Democrats, even if a lot of them are Jessiecrats. Unlike California, NC does not have user propositions that can be put on the ballot. I also don't think this is a pressing issue for most people these days. They got a lot more to worry about than Gays and Lesbians.

[Norm2]

Has NC always been the more liberal southern state? I know NC was the last state to join the confederacy during the civil war, so I wonder if NC has always had this track record. I don't think gay marriage would ever be legalized in this state in my lifetime, but if we can be the only southern state who doesnt define marriage in state law.....I think that would be great. We'll see how long these grass roots evengelist will try to pressure the government. but you are right Monsoon, there are bigger fish to fry right now than gay marriage that is for damn sure.

[voyager12]

From what I hear from EqualityNC, this proposal has once again been sent to die in multiple committees that rarely meet. This is the tactic that has been successful for many years. The majority of the Democrats in Raleigh are not doing this because they are gay supportive. It's politically advantageous for them to keep this off the ballot because they think having it out there would energize Republicans in general and hurt them overall. We need to be realists on this score since the end result also fits our needs. It's also helpful that the Statehouse leaders Basnight and Hackney are relatively gay supportive and are good at hardball.

If the proposal ever made it out of committee most Dems would vote for it.

The general public would overwhelmingly approve it. So stalling is the only sensible recourse.

North Carolina has always had a reputation as the moderate state in the South. The saying describing NC as "a valley of humility between two mountains of conceit" has been around since before The Civil War.

[Norm2]

Interesting.....I had not heard of that saying before.

[Euphorius]

Benjamin Franklin actually used that saying to describe New Jersey. It has been used to describe NC though...quite often.

[voyager12]

I stand corrected. Thank you for the info

[InitialD]

Has NC always been the more liberal southern state?

[Euphorius]

No prob. Voyager. Me and my partner were in San Francisco for pride last year and thought about getting married. Everyone was so thrilled that it was legal. Spirits were so high. I really hate that prop 8 passed. I definitely think that NC has got a really long way to go before gay marriage will be legal. Even though we are not in the most liberal state, I have not had any problems with haters...in my adult life anyway. HAHA! Of course that could be because I live in a city now instead of the small town of about 1500 people I grew up in.

[monsoon]

Yes and no. Lest we forget Jessie Helms represented NC for ages.

[InitialD]

One other thing that I will point out. It has been almost 20 years since NC elected its first openly Gay mayor. It wasn't all bad news then.

[voyager12]

^ Yes. Mike Nelson, he is now on the Orange County Commission. His partner Mark Kleinschimdt has been on Chapel Hill Town Council for several years.

[voyager12]

Chapel Hill and Carrboro Town Councils have passed resolutions affirming their support for marriage equality in NC. To act as a counterweight to the councils and county commissions that have voted in favor of a marriage amendment. Durham City Council is reviewing a proposal to add their voice. This is a non-starter in Mecklenburg on the city or county level. We don't have the progressive base here in large enough numbers for our political allies to feel like they can take a stand on a national issue. Still it's great to have examples of support out there.

[atlrvr]

A professor at Elon just released a poll in the last day or so stating that there wasn't majority support for a constitutional amendment defining marriage as 1 man and 1 woman. 50.x% would vote against the law, while ~43% would support it, with 7% or so undecided or refusing to answer.

This would make NC the only southern state where the polled populous would reject an amendment.....even more than California, whoulda thunk.

[voyager12]

It's an interesting result and Elon has a good rep on polls. Also, while half oppose a ban just 21 percent of respondents said they support full marriage rights for same-sex couples. About 28 percent said they would support civil unions or partnerships but not marriage.

So to me this illustrates many conflicted minds. Which is progress for a Southern state. Like much of the country we have some very supportive folks, some very anti-gay people and then the muddled middle. People like Bill James and their ilk are not reachable.

When I am not in fire breathing mood I can acknowledge that some of our opponents don't see themselves as homophobic and are hurt by the accusation. To them their religion forms their worldview on all cultural issues. To me it's black and white and infuriating at times that others don't get it. They are movable though. Ian Palmquist the leader of Equality NC has repeatedly stated that progress in our state will only work on the local level up, not in the reverse. Filing a lawsuit to marry would just backfire. Our circuit court system is one of the most conservative in the country. One on one conversations have swayed people. Has worked for me. EqualityNC has been successful in converting some legislators from being sponsors of this bill to strong opponents. The transformation happened when gay families in their districts met their reps to discuss their lives.

At this point, I still think it's more prudent to continue our support of Hackney and Basnight's yearly burial of this proposal in committees that never meet. Aside from the fact that I don't think our personal relationships should be put up to a vote ,these poll results show that our state is not ready to take this on.

Pragmatism bugs me on this front but we do have to start with less hotbutton issues, hospital visitation, employment, housing,bullying and build our way up.

These topics appeal to a sense of fairness that can be extricated from the ever present religious connotation of the "M" word. And in doing so build the comfort level for more contentious battles ahead.

[InitialD]

The Observer is hosting their own poll today, in case anybody wants to vote.

[suburban george3]

The Observer is hosting their own poll today, in case anybody wants to vote.

[hokiehigh]

I am pleasantly surprised the poll is a tight race. I figured that NC would be heavily against equality. I doubt we will see marriage anytime in the near future but possibly civil unions or at least no amendment to the state's constitution.

[InitialD]

I am pleasantly surprised the poll is a tight race. I figured that NC would be heavily against equality. I doubt we will see marriage anytime in the near future but possibly civil unions or at least no amendment to the state's constitution.

[suburban george3]

Looks it the link has made the rounds of the church email lists, because it jumped to 849 YES, 604 NO.

[caterpillar2]

It's an interesting result and Elon has a good rep on polls. Also, while half oppose a ban just 21 percent of respondents said they support full marriage rights for same-sex couples. About 28 percent said they would support civil unions or partnerships but not marriage.

To be honest, I think that it is unimaginable that this is an issue. I am not against it, but the fact that it is an issue today blows my mind. I have some gay couple friends (guys) that fight and argue just like other heterosexual couples and I see no reason that a binding piece of paper can't be approved to officially document their life of misery together as enjoyed by other couples. Is it a liklihood that approving the marriage of two people of the same marriage might open up a bucket of worms? For example, wouldn't it be likely that Mormans would want to legalize their bond with multiple wives (dear god imagine living with four women with PMS). I personally am O.K. with that as well. I know lots of people from many places, and I have noticed in Boston, London, or Charlotte, people have the same opinions. I don't think that the Civil War entry dates, to which someone earlier noted, has any relationship to liberal views in N.C. The issue goes beyond liberalism. It has more to do with education and religious upbringing. If you are Catholic or Baptist you will likely be against it. That doesn't mean that these same people don't support other liberal issues. It seems as if the majority of citizens simply put the issue out of their minds and feel that somebody else can worry about it since it doesn't affect them. I think that if I were a huge proponent of same sex marriage, I would start petitions. I would likely sign one.

[voyager12]

I agree to an extent ^ There are many ways to interpret this poll. While it showed a majority opposing the amendment, not even a quarter supported Civil Unions as an alternative. I was thinking today that maybe this means that these respondents may personally dissaprove of homosexuality( which is perfectly fine and their right) but will not stand in the way of us having equal footing through marriage. This extrapolation is a stretch but it makes me feel better

[voyager12]

The recent advances in Iowa and Vermont naturally make us look at the level of progress at home. NC is the only Southern state without a marriage ban. An impressive feat regardless of the mix of political calculus and motivations behind the success. At a recent forum, EqualityNC director Ian Palmquist fielded a question from a couple that has mulled suing on equal protection grounds regarding marriage.

Palmquist discouraged them from doing so. Apparently, Lambda Legal,ACLU, and other orgs that have had success elsewhere studied our current climate and decided against making a play here. I can't say I disagree with that judgment. Our state court system does not have the progressive history on civil rights issues that Iowa does. On the judicial and legislative level even the starting point of civil unions is beyond the pale. So, rightly the main priorities are anti- bullying, housing and employment non-discrimination as goals on the near horizon.

I don't see marriage equality coming to North Carolina until the US Supreme Court finally takes up this decision. And from a pragmatic standpoint, given the high court's current political bent, we don't want it there anytime soon.

[Charlotte_native]

^It's really difficult to be patient on this, but your post above really spells out why, IMO, we should here in North Carolina. Despite my personal feelings about being discriminated against I feel that fighting this fight with awareness about what is realistic and what is aleady happening is very important. As it is, there seems to be a wave moving across the country that isn't stopping. We'd like it to be faster, but so be it. I personally believe it will only be a couple to a few more years before the issue is done and we will all be treated fairly. It moves slowly but I just feel that it is gaining momentum right now -- thanks partly to California and Prop 8.

[brokenraven]

Apparently a group has started a website that aims to have marriage in NC defined as one man and one woman in state law. Their website is www.nc4marriage.org , unfortunately I am unable to really look at the site because I am at work, but it looks like they have several youtube videos and blogs and such to promote their view. I do not agree with their view and so far NC is the only southern state that does not have marriage defined as "one man one woman" by state law. Looks like there might be a serious movement to do this though. Thoughts?