Southern High-Speed Rail

[cajun]

Its funny how a person can buy a car or a home and they are considered an "Asset”, when they are borrowing money THAT THEY DON’T HAVE from a lender or mortgage company creating a personal “debt” for something that they think is needed. So, I’m thinking like all of the people that are paying a mortgage on a home...”I’d rather the state get in to “debt” for something that could be an “asset” to the community and the region”. The commuter rail to New Orleans is desperately needed and it will alleviate traffic off our state highways and interstate systems.

House is an asset. Mortgage is a debt obligation and is considered a liability....like taxes or car notes.

Are you really comparing the necessity of home to an individual to that of a commuter rail?

[Antrell Williams]

We need to build for the future.

We need to build smart. Too many projects in this area have been built haphazardly. Four years of construction to add one lane on I-10, for example. No carpool or HOV, no continuous exit lanes.

House is an asset. Mortgage is a debt obligation and is considered a liability....like taxes or car notes.

Are you really comparing the necessity of home to an individual to that of a commuter rail?

The necessity of a home to a family and the necessity of transportation to a state. Nearly the same concept.

If the argument is that we don't need it, what about the necessity of modern economies to diversify their industries, also a similar concept. We should also diversify our transportation infrastructure.

[itsjustme3]

Its funny how a person can buy a car or a home and they are considered an "Asset”, when they are borrowing money THAT THEY DON’T HAVE from a lender or mortgage company creating a personal “debt” for something that they think is needed. So, I’m thinking like all of the people that are paying a mortgage on a home...”I’d rather the state get in to “debt” for something that could be an “asset” to the community and the region”. The commuter rail to New Orleans is desperately needed and it will alleviate traffic off our state highways and interstate systems.

No clue how you are linking personal finances to a state spending money it doesn't have. There's zero comparison.

Likewise with your "this rail is despatetly needed". It's not. Plain and simple.

[itsjustme3]

The necessity of a home to a family and the necessity of transportation to a state. Nearly the same concept.

No it's not. It's not at all. When a person goes to buy a car, they have to be approved by someone. They have to pay for it. If not it gets taken away and the deadbeat could go to jail.

That is no way the same as a state paying for a new rail line with money it doesn't have. No one oversees/ is directly responsible for the states finances and no punishment except getting voted out.

Not the same at all. If it were then most of Americas politicans would be in jail.

[Antrell Williams]

No it's not. It's not at all. When a person goes to buy a car, they have to be approved by someone. They have to pay for it. If not it gets taken away and the deadbeat could go to jail.

That is no way the same as a state paying for a new rail line with money it doesn't have. No one oversees/ is directly responsible for the states finances and no punishment except getting voted out.

Not the same at all. If it were then most of Americas politicans would be in jail.

I'm fully aware how the loan process work. Except in most cases, you do not get taken to jail or get a prison sentence.

It is a very similar concept. I can't force you to grasp this simple analogy.

[itsjustme3]

I'm fully aware how the loan process work. Except in most cases, you do not get taken to jail or get a prison sentence.

It is a very similar concept. I can't force you to grasp this simple analogy.

And I can't force you to grasp the simple notion that a personal loan for a home is nothing like a out of money state spending money on rail it doesn't have.

[cajun]

I'm fully aware how the loan process work. Except in most cases, you do not get taken to jail or get a prison sentence.

It is a very similar concept. I can't force you to grasp this simple analogy.

There's far more concentrated risk with a personal loan, and far more accountability for the note..

[Antrell Williams]

There's far more concentrated risk with a personal loan, and far more accountability for the note..

Is the process not similar?

[cajun]

Is the process not similar?

Bond holders carry the risk for soverign debt.....there's a market for purchasing these (usually) safe but low yielding bonds as investments much the way there is a market for mortgaged backed securities.

The difference is that if I had my eyes on a house that was beyond my means to purchase or maintain, I probably wouldn't get a prime loan from a bank. My rate would be much higher because the risk of default is higher.

Another difference is that a public works project, unlike a car or house, has little to no salvage value if the investment fails. It exists to serve the public good and not setup to generate revenue (not usually a least). If the investment fails, it fails "big".

That checks and balances isn't as clear with government debt. Municipalities can ring up debt well beyond what they can possibly afford years before they lose their bond rating. By that time, the politicans involved are long gone and the taxpayers are stuck with sky high taxes and a failed "investment". As tax rates rise and the demand for homes decrease, housing values plummet. The city either has to cut services or raise taxes to cover the shortfall. Many choose to raise taxes as cutting employees can be impossible with some public sector unions. Of course the even higher tax rates exacerbate the problem and encourage more to leave for the nearest suburb, which lowers property values farther. It's a bad cycle.

Look into Harrisburg, PA's problems now for a good example of how this can turn into a scary tail spin very easily. Or Detroit. Or Stoctkton, CA.

Also, there is the issue of a bonding capacity. This is a limit placed on debt. EBR, for instance, has has maxed out this with the sewer improvements and green light plan. New projects must now be paid as they have the cash available to fund them. They currently have a high bond rating, but if that is lowered, borrowing becomes more expensive as those purchasing the debt expect more reward for their increased risk. The bond rating of the US federal government was lowered last year....which was a historic and symbolic milestone that we definately never wanted to reach.

Like a patient visiting the hospital, is our country and city not entitled to well vetted treatments and numerous treatment options? Will our needs never change? Who is to say that one day we choose a specific medicine but may need a totally different type 5 years later?

My opinion now is that there isn't enough potential ridership to support the startup and recurring costs associated with a rail route between the two cities....especially a slow train with stops at every map dot. The right of way currently exists and will still be there in 20 years if we need it. I'm allowed to change my opinion if I see a change in the region's situation and demand for the service.

[Antrell Williams]

I didn't want to you hurt your fingers typing all of that. Thanks though.

My opinion now is that there isn't enough potential ridership to support the startup and recurring costs associated with a rail route between the two cities....especially a slow train with stops at every map dot. The right of way currently exists and will still be there in 20 years if we need it. I'm allowed to change my opinion if I see a change in the region's situation and demand for the service.

That's why I'm pushing that if it is built, it be built correctly. If it's essentially a light-rail, it's already failed. If it has stops in every little river town, it's already a failure. If it's built correctly I have a hard time seeing a complete failure. Most people flying out of MSY from the BR area will use the rail to avoid parking costs or having family or friends drive them all the way there. After people get used to using it, we will see the rail packed when there's Saints or LSU games, festivals, and other large events. For example, Bama fans would be able to fly to New Orleans, do the tourist thing there, ride to LSU campus, and ride back, all without a car. Workers downtown could ride the park and ride on Hwy 30.

But I'm not advocating we actually build it until we have a decent public transit network here.

[cajun]

The business report article is pretty clear that the train will not go faster than 80 mph.

There is a limit for all trains at 79 mph currently in the state. They aren't pressing that.

80 mph (and that won't be the case in the urban areas) combined with 4 stops between New Orleans and BR means that a train trip will probably take longer than a car....even if there is no bottleneck at the rail yard in Jefferson.

[richyb83]

Study: Rail service between B.R. and N.O. could be developed for $260 million

An intercity passenger train between Baton Rouge and New Orleans that travels on existing freight rails at an average speed of 55 miles per hour could be developed for $260 million—far less than $450 million price tag of a high-speed rail line that was proposed for the corridor several years ago. As envisioned in a study released today to the Capital Region Planning Commission, the 240-seat passenger train would operate twice-daily round trips between downtown Baton Rouge and the New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal, with five stops along the way: suburban Baton Rouge, Gonzales, LaPlace, Louis Armstrong International Airport and Jefferson Parish. One-way trips would take about 90 minutes and would cost $10 per ticket. The proposal—outlined in a study prepared by HNTB for the Capital Region Planning Commission, BRAF and the Regional Planning Commission in New Orleans—is a far more realistic approach to developing and running rail service between the two cities than some previous studies. It estimates annual operating expenses to be about $9 million. The study identifies several potential funding sources for the service, including: federal funds, taxes, grants, bonds and public-private partnerships. See the complete study. —Stephanie Riegel Read the full story here.

 

http://www.businessreport.com/article/20140318/BUSINESSREPORT0112/140319804

[timelordnerd]

Study: Rail service between B.R. and N.O. could be developed for $260 million

An intercity passenger train between Baton Rouge and New Orleans that travels on existing freight rails at an average speed of 55 miles per hour could be developed for $260 million—far less than $450 million price tag of a high-speed rail line that was proposed for the corridor several years ago. As envisioned in a study released today to the Capital Region Planning Commission, the 240-seat passenger train would operate twice-daily round trips between downtown Baton Rouge and the New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal, with five stops along the way: suburban Baton Rouge, Gonzales, LaPlace, Louis Armstrong International Airport and Jefferson Parish. One-way trips would take about 90 minutes and would cost $10 per ticket. The proposal—outlined in a study prepared by HNTB for the Capital Region Planning Commission, BRAF and the Regional Planning Commission in New Orleans—is a far more realistic approach to developing and running rail service between the two cities than some previous studies. It estimates annual operating expenses to be about $9 million. The study identifies several potential funding sources for the service, including: federal funds, taxes, grants, bonds and public-private partnerships. See the complete study. —Stephanie Riegel Read the full story here.

 

http://www.businessreport.com/article/20140318/BUSINESSREPORT0112/140319804

You go faster than that on the four lane to Houma. 

[BRPJ]

Hefty price tag just to go 50 mph.  I'd say go high speed or forget it.

[Antrell Williams]

It has to go faster. I would like to see the departure times and more trips.

[timelordnerd]

Maybe we could team up with Texas a build a High Speed line that hit's the Texas triangle and connects Baton Rouge and Nola with a line from BR to Houston, Dallas, and Shreveport. Just that line could help spur development all along the west side of the state and also make BR a transportation hub for the new American South. 

[ehyfield]

Hoooold up haus! Let's talk about getting to NOLA first!

[timelordnerd]

Hoooold up haus! Let's talk about getting to NOLA first!

You build a line to NOLA (not that hard as a majority of infrastructure already exists). Then you work with Texas to build a line connecting the states.

[itsjustme3]

You build a line to NOLA (not that hard as a majority of infrastructure already exists). Then you work with Texas to build a line connecting the states.

And who is paying for this?

Maybe we could team up with Texas a build a High Speed line that hit's the Texas triangle and connects Baton Rouge and Nola with a line from BR to Houston, Dallas, and Shreveport. Just that line could help spur development all along the west side of the state and also make BR a transportation hub for the new American South.

How is a rail line going to spur development along the western part of the state?

[garrett_225]

Seems like taking it (the train) would only make sense if you were going out to NOLA on a weekend and didn't want the added expense of parking your car in the city. Asking daily commuters to pay $10 each way sounds a little steep. Sucking it up and buying the gas would be cheaper. Then again, I've never really used a commuter train that crossed this amount of distance...can someone tell me if that ticket price sounds standard? 

 

Or would it work like toll tags...you pay the full amount unless you buy a yearly pass (or something) up front, thus obtaining a discount if you're a daily/frequent user?

[Renzo]

You build a line to NOLA (not that hard as a majority of infrastructure already exists). Then you work with Texas to build a line connecting the states.

 

I think saying it's not that hard is minimizing all the roadblocks that are inevitably going to pop up

[Antrell Williams]

And who is paying for this?

 

Feds should cover 80% I believe. .

 

Seems like taking it (the train) would only make sense if you were going out to NOLA on a weekend and didn't want the added expense of parking your car in the city. Asking daily commuters to pay $10 each way sounds a little steep. Sucking it up and buying the gas would be cheaper. Then again, I've never really used a commuter train that crossed this amount of distance...can someone tell me if that ticket price sounds standard? 

 

Or would it work like toll tags...you pay the full amount unless you buy a yearly pass (or something) up front, thus obtaining a discount if you're a daily/frequent user?

Doesn't sound that steep considering how much you can save. On weekends parking downtown can be $20-30 and you will have to have a DD if you plan to drink while you're there. People going to games are probably going to take it, seeing as most people don't use their car after/before the game. With the congestion that builds up on I-10 this will be a more and more viable option compared to driving.

[ehyfield]

The TRE runs from downtown Dallas to downtown Fort Worth. Last time I was there, it was $10 for a day pass and it ran a lot mor e frequently then twice a day.

About connecting this thing to Texas, I think Texas' government is more concerned with building roads that people need and not so much trains. Baton Rouge should design a station that allows for a future expansion to the west, if it becomes necessary.

[Antrell Williams]

The TRE runs from downtown Dallas to downtown Fort Worth. Last time I was there, it was $10 for a day pass and it ran a lot mor e frequently then twice a day.

About connecting this thing to Texas, I think Texas' government is more concerned with building roads that people need and not so much trains. Baton Rouge should design a station that allows for a future expansion to the west, if it becomes necessary.

Well $10 for a potential multiple number of trips isn't bad, but I can't imagine why someone would need to go between the two more than once or twice a day, so what's the difference?

 

Texas is still studying a rail from Houston to Dallas and I think they are leaving room for rail on the proposed I-45N in Houston.

[garrett_225]

Feds should cover 80% I believe. .

 

Doesn't sound that steep considering how much you can save. On weekends parking downtown can be $20-30 and you will have to have a DD if you plan to drink while you're there. People going to games are probably going to take it, seeing as most people don't use their car after/before the game. With the congestion that builds up on I-10 this will be a more and more viable option compared to driving.

 

That's what I said, doesn't make much sense outside of the weekend.