GRDadof3

ArtPrize and Project 1 - Grand Rapids

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This article they still haven't fixed shows attendance increased overall, including Saturday, even though they reported a decrease on Saturday.  The seem to have pulled one graph down, but left the other up which still shows really bad math.

http://woodtv.com/2014/09/29/overall-attendance-up-at-artprize-venues/ 

Hey kids, 7700 in 2013 to 10000 in 2014 means a 7000 drop!

Edited by tSlater

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I don't really get it. Is this an attempt for ArtPrize to make money? I really don't see how it benefits ArtPrize (or Grand Rapids) to have two events? Are they expecting some sort of sister city exchange program?

 

Confused.

 

Joe

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This cant be serious?

 

After all of the money and local efforts to really build this brand? This may not go down well.

 

 

But then again, Texas does have a great art culture with world class art institutions, a fast growing population, lots of money and young people. Not to mention it doesn't get cold as much.

 

Maybe Art Prize in GR has run as far as it can? Certainly there are many great places that have all but dropped out as venues because it costs too much. The weather the past year wasn't that great either and we lacked lots of the big outdoor entries that really became a hallmark of the competition. Art Prize risks becoming stale and typecast if they lock it to GR only.

 

But then again we had a record number of voters and entries, so there isnt exactly waning public interest. :dontknow:

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:thumbsup:

 

I like the expansion.  It does benefit the competition to expand access to it, and holding it twice a year (Spring & Fall) in separate locations does just that.  Increasing the profile of the competition is the best way for it to benefit GR - trying to claim sole ownership is less effective in the long run.

 

It would have been neat to go to another metro area comparable to GR, like Albuquerque.  But whatevs, it's all good.

Edited by RegalTDP

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I hate the idea of expansion. Maybe GR can host a spring Cannes Film Fest. I know the DeVos family funded Art Prize but Grand Rapids built it into what it is today. I cancelled my membership as it appears they found other avenues to raise funds.

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I hate the idea of expansion. Maybe GR can host a spring Cannes Film Fest. I know the DeVos family funded Art Prize but Grand Rapids built it into what it is today. I cancelled my membership as it appears they found other avenues to raise funds.

 

I think many people may take the same route. AP was seen as GR's baby. We gave it its personality, we came out and supported it when no one thought it would work. We entered work, we supported artists, we put on a great party! The amount of shared experiences that thousands of us had from this event changed the city like nothing else outside of war. This really feels like the legs are being cut off after AP benefited from the community's support. In short "so long, and thanks for all the fish".

 

But Art Prize is at a crossroads. While they are the first(?) competition like this, they certainly dont hold a patent on it. Other cities that are bigger and have a more active art scene can do this and swamp the AP brand by sheer weight of numbers. A place like Seattle has big city swagger with GR friendliness, and THOUSANDS of places that can be venues. If they made their own AP-style competition, then it would be game over for GR. So AP has two clear choices that I think mirror two popular grass-roots type of events.

 

 

First you have Burning Man. While certainly vastly different than its hippie roots back in 1993, it still draws thousands and has not decided to become a thing that is franchised all over. There certainly isnt a "Burning Man: Kansas City" or Tampa or Montpelier. It has a mystique that comes from its uniqueness. It will always be an "underground" thing (albeit with some glaring inconsistencies) and they like it like that.

 

But then there is TED Talks, which is all over the place. TED in Alaska, Prague, Ohio, Grand Rapids, Rome, Durban, Hong Kong, Wellington, and even Antarctica! It has blown up to become an incredible brand that while kinda mocked for being to high on themselves, is still one of the best and inspirational lecture series in the world. It's a bit diluted for sure though. Basically just a name and a format you have to conform to, but it feeds the beast with lots of $$$ that keeps the main tree alive. Maybe that's the plan with AP.

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The goal has always been to change the conversation about art "around the world." No one really talks about AP anywhere outside of Grand Rapids, despite a couple of national articles every year.

 

Don't be surprised to see this franchised to 7, 8, 10 different cities. They get asked to put on an ArtPrize event by a lot of different city officials, particularly after CEO's for Cities was here in GR last year. They probably finally said "why not?" And apparently Dallas followed up with them quite a bit and invited them down, so I hear.

 

I think comparing it to TED and TEDx is a good comparison. Maybe it might actually raise the profile of GR's ArtPrize, since it will always be the home base?

 

Edit: just got through reading a bunch of comments on AP's Facebook page. People are strange. Franchising this to Dallas will "crush GR's economy" apparently?

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I guess we'll just have to wait and see if the art community's version of the Gathering of the Juggalos will work in a much larger urban environment or if it will get lost in the shuffle.  My questions:

  • Will artists exhibit at both the Dallas and GR events?
  • If not, will Dallas get more entries/higher quality because of its larger metro size/higher profile/larger potential audience?
  • If the Dallas event gets lost in the shuffle of a larger metro area with more choices for activities, does the failure hurt the ArtPrize brand in general?
  • If Dallas is poorly executed, will people assume the entire ArtPrize concept sucks and never visit GR's event?
  • If there is even moderate success in Dallas, will ArtPrize continue to expand?  

 

I was also thinking that GM should come out with a low price Cadillac so that everyone can have one.  Oh wait, they tried that... twice.  And it failed... twice.  Nobody wanted a cheap knock-off Cadillac and everyone who could afford a real Cadillac no longer wanted to buy a brand that had been diluted and that had lost its aura of exclusivity.  Not sure what made me think of that.

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I wonder what the GR business community thought of this announcement?

 

TedX, as an analogy if true is bad for GR. How many people know that TedX started in Monterrey?

 

https://www.ted.com/about/our-organization/history-of-ted  - a brief history of the conference including its globalization and conferences around the world which is great for TedX, with its HQ in NY, NY but has that globalization done anything for Monterrey?

 

Would TedX still be around if it was just in Monterrey? Would it have the same level of global impact? Or could it have become like Austin's SXSW Festival. Where people from across the country travel to Austin for their "unique" festival.

 

I'm an optimist and think Art Prize could have been GR's SXSW, others could have tried to copy it, but not to the same effect as what we have here in GR. 

 

Until I see otherwise, I still see this as a big loss for metro GR.

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The TED vs. TEDx comparison immediately came to mind for me also. While TEDx has perhaps diluted the brand, the actual TED event still seems to be a much bigger deal.

 

Also, I don't think that TED has the same sorts of connections with its host cities—all of the main activity happens in dedicated spaces at dedicated times, and has a somewhat limited target audience (basically, people that appreciate intellectual porn [i'd count myself in that category, in case anyone things I'm being derisive]). ArtPrize, by comparison, involves hundreds of venues, isn't on a set daily schedule (except for performance art), and has something for just about everyone, including young kids. I doubt that elementary schools take field trips to TED[x] talks.

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AP has SXSW potential, but this takes corporate sponsors at the national level. Is AP's crew robo-calling marketing departments? Beats me. 

 

Other comparisons would be Basel, Miami, and Frieze. These events attract top international artists because they also attract buyers with pockets full of money. Competitions are for amateurs. The only major buyer at AP is Ripley's. Ouch. 

 

That said, Dallas has lots of buyers and this is attractive for professional artists. Would love to see AP develop a market there and then replicate in GR as the midwest alternative. The prize money is cool, but a market help professional artists measure the ROI of participation. When the returns are good, the quality will go up.

 

With this in place, I see a major win for AP and GR. 

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Upon cancellation of my membership/email, I got a great response from Amelea at Art Prize. (the most authentic information I feel that's been provided about the entire idea) My gut feeling is that they did not anticipate the negative onslaught that this announcement generated.

 

Great lesson for any future PR folks out there. 

 

I think the support of a Dallas Art Prize or any other city for that matter could have been dramatically improved with a little communication.

 

"Hey, Art Prize has been so successful, we've been approached by other cities and its not ever been a good fit. However, if something materialize, this is what the benefits we plan to get from any arrangement, we'll keep you posted on any new developments as they come"

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I wonder. what the GR business community thought of this announcement?

 

TedX, as an analogy if true is bad for GR. How many people know that TedX started in Monterrey?

 

https://www.ted.com/about/our-organization/history-of-ted  - a brief history of the conference including its globalization and conferences around the world which is great for TedX, with its HQ in NY, NY but has that globalization done anything for Monterrey?

 

Would TedX still be around if it was just in Monterrey? Would it have the same level of global impact? Or could it have become like Austin's SXSW Festival. Where people from across the country travel to Austin for their "unique" festival.

 

I'm an optimist and think Art Prize could have been GR's SXSW, others could have tried to copy it, but not to the same effect as what we have here in GR. 

 

Until I see otherwise, I still see this as a big loss for metro GR.

I can't imagine any business not seeing expansion into other markets a good thing. They're all trying to do the same.

It's not like AP is selling the entire mother ship brand to Live Nation or Interscope Records. Although they are looking for national sponsors and they'll all tell you "Grow or die."

Are Grand Rapidians really this rabidly provincial?

 

Here's one benefit: ArtPrize gets to probably keep going for a few more years.

 

So will Dallas' Artprize that will take place in April affect attendance at GR's AP in September? Do people really believe think that it's even a question? Okay let's be generous and say 10,000 people will go to Dallas and not GR. Out of 300,000.... Attendees that pay no admission, buy no tickets, and usually buy no art.

 

If locals wanted ArtPrize to stay a GR thing, then they probably should have PAID for it. The only ones paying now are the artists, the venues (particularly non-profit venues who are being buried under AP expenses), the Devos Foundation in the forms of loans, a couple of other foundations and the local corporate community. Otherwise, you can't be hurt when someone comes with a big fat check to "license" your idea. And you certainly can't turn it down. You'd be a fool to do that, and not a wise business person (see Shark Tank).

 

If AP were to end tomorrow, I don't really see it making the slightest little dent in Grand Rapids' $48 Billion economy.

 

End rant. :)

 

I see this as a hugely positive thing for AP at a very critical time.

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The TED vs. TEDx comparison immediately came to mind for me also. While TEDx has perhaps diluted the brand, the actual TED event still seems to be a much bigger deal.

 

Also, I don't think that TED has the same sorts of connections with its host cities—all of the main activity happens in dedicated spaces at dedicated times, and has a somewhat limited target audience (basically, people that appreciate intellectual porn [i'd count myself in that category, in case anyone things I'm being derisive]). ArtPrize, by comparison, involves hundreds of venues, isn't on a set daily schedule (except for performance art), and has something for just about everyone, including young kids. I doubt that elementary schools take field trips to TED[x] talks.

 

Have you been to a TedX talk? They always have a live remote going with "school partners," essentially all set up in a gymnasium or auditorium.

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Have you been to a TedX talk? They always have a live remote going with "school partners," essentially all set up in a gymnasium or auditorium.

 

I haven't been to one, to be honest. What age groups do they target? I can't imagine them going much younger than high school (middle school at the youngest), let alone being appealing to my three-year-old like ArtPrize was.

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I haven't been to one, to be honest. What age groups do they target? I can't imagine them going much younger than high school (middle school at the youngest), let alone being appealing to my three-year-old like ArtPrize was.

 

Usually a high school in the area.

 

But I think you're confusing the comparison. It's not who TedX appeals to vs ArtPrize, it's how TED was syndicated/licensed to help it grow into a worldwide phenomenon, that could be a model for AP. Do people remember where the original TED started? Who cares. GR should be working on the next big idea anyway.

 

Your 3 year old will still be able to continue to enjoy AP for a couple more years anyway, and will have no idea that it has been franchised/syndicated.

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Usually a high school in the area.

 

But I think you're confusing the comparison. It's not who TedX appeals to vs ArtPrize, it's how TED was syndicated/licensed to help it grow into a worldwide phenomenon, that could be a model for AP. Do people remember where the original TED started? Who cares. GR should be working on the next big idea anyway.

 

Your 3 year old will still be able to continue to enjoy AP for a couple more years anyway, and will have no idea that it has been franchised/syndicated.

 

My point is, ArtPrize has a much deeper connection with the host community, and the interaction with kids is one example of that. Every parent I know took their kids downtown at least once during the event, and there were numerous school groups—of all ages—there every time I went during the weekday. That's much different than displaying a simulcast at local schools.

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I can't imagine any business not seeing expansion into other markets a good thing. They're all trying to do the same.

It's not like AP is selling the entire mother ship brand to Live Nation or Interscope Records. Although they are looking for national sponsors and they'll all tell you "Grow or die."

Are Grand Rapidians really this rabidly provincial?

 

[ ... ]

 

End rant. :)

 

I see this as a hugely positive thing for AP at a very critical time.

 

EXACTLY.  GR is finally exporting ideas, and people are upset?  This is what happens when a city is relevant.  Or, at least in GR's case, getting there.

 

 

  • Will artists exhibit at both the Dallas and GR events?

 

 -- If they want to; per the MLive article, it's allowed.

 

  • If not, will Dallas get more entries/higher quality because of its larger metro size/higher profile/larger potential audience?

 

-- Possibly, but is that bad?  Higher quality/profile in Dallas --> Higher profile/quality of Artprize overall --> Higher quality/profile in GR.  The quality and quantity of entries isn't zero sum between the two cities.  A stronger competition in one town raises the profile of the competition in the other town.

 

  • If the Dallas event gets lost in the shuffle of a larger metro area with more choices for activities, does the failure hurt the ArtPrize brand in general?
  • If Dallas is poorly executed, will people assume the entire ArtPrize concept sucks and never visit GR's event?

 

-- It may fail in Dallas, but GR's event is already an established brand; it helps that other cities have already competed with Dallas to host this.  If Dallas mucks it up, it could be possible to move it to another city that's interested.  Expanding always has risk of failure, but staying in one place can be risky too.

 

  • If there is even moderate success in Dallas, will ArtPrize continue to expand?  

 

-- My hope is not too much... You want to maximize visibility across regions spaced throughout the year.  A biannual GR/Dallas competition would be comparable to the Red Bull Air Race, held in widely separate cities in widely separate times of year.  I wouldn't want to see it franchised like a McDonald's, though.  I don't know what's in the years ahead, but I think this is a good step for now.

Edited by RegalTDP

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GR would get tons of attention if AP was held simultaneously in multiple locations.

 

The move to Dallas could be the first step into evolving into an ultimate "stuff-made-of-stuff" competition. Every year people building wild and crazy things all over the country with people voting at the same time? It would be epic, fun, and a media pleaser. Think region vs region with GR leading the charge. It would be awesome.....  Actually, incredibly awesome. 

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Not seeing how this can harm our fall season of wonderfulness.

 

Dallas would be in April. It's a completely different atmosphere in Texas (culture, city size just for starters). We'd still get artists from all over, as well as local folks (a friend does something with his Forest Hills art class, displayed at Park Church). We'd still get visitors from throughout our fair state and nearby. And anything about A/P Dallas would mention GR. (Didja know that Pure Michigan does a lot of ads down south? And they work!)

 

Take a look at the National Folk Festival, which travels around and begats local events. That's how the Great Lakes Folk Festival started.

 

Another model of sorts is Tuba Christmas. It started 41 years ago as a one-time concert on the ice rink at Rockefeller Center in NYC with a few dozen players; today there are hundreds of local events throughout the US. There are folks who travel to several of the concerts to play.

Edited by Veloise

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