Conservatism's Future

[Gorath]

Roads are paid for by gas taxes and fees (licenses, tags etc.) It's completely user funded.

Except for economic stimulus money road projects. ..... I'm not sure where that money comes from. I don't even think the government knows. It would have helped, I think, if they would have read the bill before they voted on it. They just might have caught that oversight.

Everyone likes to complain about the condition of the the roads and bridges. But no one wants to raise the gas tax to pay to fix them. That's how road construction gets its funding after all. That is until we stop using gas to power our cars, then we will have a real road problem.

[d8alterego]

Look dude, I have my priorities and beliefs and you have yours. This forum, and infact this thread, is about expressing opinions to be debated is it not? If you don't like that, get off. Oh, and let me characterize you before I go: I bet you are the type of person that just loves starting a debate, but gets annoyed by someone that doesn't agree and doesn't back down. So once you realize they aren't going to back down, you make your last political statement to then cut off further debate. Man, I feel bad for your former roommate.

EOD

You don't read very well my friend - no SUBSIDIES for roads - it's all user funded. There is ZERO - NADA general fund money in MI for roads, and that's pretty much the same for federal funding. How am I so sure you ask - My paycheck for 37 years has been paid with MI Act 51 monies - the MI gas & weight tax. How much fairer can it be, I use it I pay for it. You ride your bike or take the bus, you don't pay for roads. In fact some road money is used to fund the buses. You all cranked because the government collects the road user tax and doles it out to the highway authorities.

Schools on the other hand, you think it is wonderful that every property owner pays taxes to fund the school system. Not every property owner has children in school. Some homeowners like myself, not only pay my public school property tax and also paid tuition to a private school. Also, commercial and industrial properties do NOT qualify for a Homestead exemption and pay a far higher rate (and usually a much larger $ amount) than a homeowner.

I'd strongly suggest you read a property tax bill. The biggest portion goes to the schools.

And yes, you debate for the sake of debate. If you truly believed in what you write, you would be consistent in your philosophy. Don't forget I lived 9 months with someone like you.

EOD (End of Discussion /Debate)

[monsoon]

Roads are paid for by gas taxes and fees (licenses, tags etc.) It's completely user funded.......

[Raildudes dad]

Possibly in theory, but in reality no. The federal highway trust fund, which sends money to all states to build road projects, is funded from the USA General Fund. It is not directly funded by the federal gas and excise taxes which are put into the general fund. The HW trust fund is supposed to be funded an amount equal to a percentage of the federal gas and vehicle taxes collected. However if the fund runs out of money, then congress will provide additional funding from the general fund as required. In other words, the income tax, rather non-road user revenue, is also used for road funding. This happened in 2008 when congress put an extra $8B into the fund from the general revenues.

It should also be noted that congress and the administration will routinely "steal" money from this fund for other purposes. This is why the gas tax doesn't go directly to the highway trust fund. Nobody really ever notices because they mistakenly believe the gas tax goes 100% towards road building. It doesn't.

Road projects are also funded by earmarks (like the Alaska bridge to nowhere) and special spending projects such as the stimulus bill just passed. In these cases, future generations will pay for these roads whether they drive or not because all the money was borrowed. It should be noted that if the government borrows money to build a road, the gas tax isn't used to pay back the debt at a future date.

The bottom line is that while user fees do pay a great deal of the cost of road construction, there is a significant amount of funding coming, at the federal level, from the regular income tax as well. I suspect that if you look into the details at the state level, you will most likely find the same kind of tricks going on with state gas taxes.

[monsoon]

.... It's more difficult to document on the federal level but for the most part it's only federal fuel tax monies. Stimulus projects don't count in any analysis - it's all "borrowed" but that's debate for another thread.

[Raildudes dad]

Of course I was going by your comment that it was the same for federal funding and that roads are only built with user fees.

[fotoman311]

This is what I said: . At the federal level and even in MI some highway user tax is spent on mass transit, but that too is a subject for another thread.

I was responding to this comment by d8altrego . I can't find this post in the thread anymore.

Just trying to get the facts straight on highway funding. Most folks think it's all from either property tax or income tax. Mostly not true.

[GRDadof3]

What about local roads? The City of Grand Rapids does not have a gas tax that I'm aware of, as do none of the other localities in our area. I don't even know if they have the authority to create one in Michigan, like they have in Chicago.

But, it is my impression that funding for local and county roads all comes from the general funds of those entities through their roads/transportation depts. Is this correct? There should be a book that lays all this information out. But, I guess it would need constant revision (the internet is good at that) and it would be hard to separate it from the politics.

[Gorath]

I'm almost positive that the city uses their tax revenue (mostly income tax) to pay for roads. I think they get a portion of revenue sharing from the state, but I think that has shrunk a great deal as of late.

[Allison Slater]

I'm guessing R.O.W. fees are income from railroads and power companies to cross city-owned R.O.W.s. Possibly from Amway and their catwalks as well.