Energy Jobs Coming to Charlotte

[krazeeboi]

Well.... I didn't say anything about other states or their incentives. I simply responded to the the claims that Charlotte has a superior business climate because of these jobs. However since you don't seem to like this notion, then I would like to know what are the other factors you mention as to why a company in Munich, Germany would choose to add 40 jobs/year to Charlotte over all these other states that you bring up.

[monsoon]

......

You are the one making the claim that incentives played the only role here, so the burden of proof is on you. But at least you did say you "believe," not "know beyond a shadow of a doubt."

[krazeeboi]

It might help if you read what I have posted. I said this was "my opinion".

[JayGee]

Obviously I did read it, since I clearly pointed out that you said this is what you believed. And there is absolutely no need to bring my reading comprehension skills into question here. That tactic is about as old as dirt and is only used when you're obviously proven wrong about something by someone on here.

Nobody said this and you're being totally disingenuous and you know it. Please refrain from distorting people's arguments when they don't agree with you. This is why people feel like they can't have a civil discussion with you without it turning into something nasty. It's about the most annoying thing I've ever encountered here.

[krazeeboi]

That was a pretty amazing response to your post. You went out of your way to acknowledge it was his opinion, and it was completely ignored. The whole response seemed pretty irrational to me.

[monsoon]

Absolutely, but sadly, that's what I've come to expect whenever I disagree with him.

[krazeeboi]

You didn't just disagree with me. You challenged me with some kind of nonsense that the burden of proof was on me for my opinion. While you might claim that you might acknowledged this, your actions show otherwise. BTW, it is you who are putting words in my mouth about that post. You either believe it or you don't. You can't have it both ways which is probably what you are really upset about.

[rockhilljames]

Actually lower taxes and tax incentives would be considered a good business climate, by most every business I know. Although I think that you can certainly go too far with them (New Orleans paid WAY too much for the Hornets and Alabama will NEVER make back the money they shelled out to Mercedes), they are a legitimate business recruiting tool and work well.

Even without those incentives however, Charlotte has a well-earned reputation as a business center. Good weather, housing prices that until recently were below the national average, skilled workforces, and transportation options greater than cities of comparable size (I'm talking about Charlotte-Douglas here) are just a few of the things that business cite when listing reasons for starting or relocating here. I suppose they could all be lying and just moving here for the corporate dole, but I doubt it.

[monsoon]

Pro-Build East, a national company which is also located in downtown Charlotte, announced today that it is closing its Charlotte office, laying off the Charlotte workers that work there, and moving the operation to Atlanta. Using the logic presented above, then one can argue that Charlotte has an inferior business climate to that of Atlanta. Gee sounds like the logic that CATS likes to use. Sorry but you can't have it both ways.

[HopHead]

Pro-Build East, a national company which is also located in downtown Charlotte, announced today that it is closing its Charlotte office, laying off the Charlotte workers that work there, and moving the operation to Atlanta. Using the logic presented above, then one can argue that Charlotte has an inferior business climate to that of Atlanta. Gee sounds like the logic that CATS likes to use. Sorry but you can't have it both ways.

[JayGee]

And this comment isn't uncalled for? I don't care if you disagree with me, but calling people "irrational" is what will cause these topics to get closed. Did I call you guys names because of what you think? NO.

[rockhilljames]

One could argue that Atlanta has a better business climate than Charlotte. Atlanta is certainly in another tier as far as cities are concerned. That doesn't diminish Charlotte's business climate by any means.

The cities that compete in our tier such as Jacksonville, Nashville, Birmingham, and Norfolk are -I think- better comparisons.

Anyway, kudos to Charlotte for picking up jobs in what is becoming an increasingly more important sector for our economy.

[monsoon]

I stated that I felt the post was irrational because you clearly ignored the fact that he acknowledged the fact that you were stating your opinion and then you went on to misrepresent the original premise, that incentives are only a part of the decision. I was not referring to a person, only a post.

[monsoon]

One could argue that Atlanta has a better business climate than Charlotte. Atlanta is certainly in another tier as far as cities are concerned. That doesn't diminish Charlotte's business climate by any means. .....

[JayGee]

When this was announced we got proclamations these jobs were coming here because of our superior business climate. I am not even sure what that means as I am not aware that a nuclear engineer in Charlotte is any better than the ones elsewhere. I was the one that brought up the government subsidies for these jobs and got promptly assassinated for it. Either this was not known when these posts were made or was ignored. In either case it's hard to believe that anyone would think this would not have influenced the decision in Munich.

[rockhilljames]

I'm a little confused here too. I'm not sure what your original point was then, other than to make sure everyone knows that economic incentives were offered to entice a company that already has a presence here to add more jobs.

So noted, and appreciated based on the 40 new high-paying jobs added to the region. That's 40 more houses that will be bought, more taxes to be collected, more private school tuition to be paid (let's be honest) and Neiman Marcus might sell another belt.

Now, if a culture of corruption has emerged that has politicians offering public money in return for campaign contributions and small announcements to fool people into not paying attention to what's going on, that would be something serious. Are you alleging that?

[monsoon]

I'm a little confused here too. ...... Are you alleging that?

[urban980]

^What is an "uptown Charlotte mindset". If it is an "urban mindset", I would have thought ALL urban planet posters had it.

[krazeeboi]

I was only responding to the claim the "business environment" in Charlotte is great because these jobs are being attracted here which isn't the case. These jobs are coming here because of public money. Nothing more nothing less.

[HopHead]

The Charlotte Biz Journal had an interesting read on the growing importance of Duke Energy in Charlotte as the banks have struggled. Before reading this, I didn't realize how viable the company was to Charlotte in the 70s and 80s prior to then NationsBank (NCNB) and First Union coming to the forefront in the 90s. The company is now working with the Charlotte Chamber on expanding the number of companies from the energy and research sectors, which is evident in some of the recent job announcements. The other thing, which I think is of big importance too, is that they are working on becoming more of a community player with the non-profits. This may eventually warrant its own thread, but thought it was worth noting...

[monsoon]

During this period, late 70s to late 80s, the biggest employers in the city were The Bell System, Duke Power, and IBM Corporation. It was a much more technical workforce than what we have today.

There was open hostility between the city council and business leaders against IBM ranging from the salaries that IBM paid (too high) to bringing in so many transplants (they didn't like it) to the entire debacle that occurred around the Education Village that IBM donated land and equipment for which CMS has since completely destroyed and illegal attempts at annexations into the city. They have pretty much pulled out of Charlotte in favor of Raleigh. Of the 8000-9000 employees that used to be here, I suspect the number is around 500 to 1000 now. IBM's announcement of coming to CLT in 1978 was big news because it marked the first time that a Fortune 10 company had taken interest in the city. It's a shame they felt this wasn't the place for them.

Hand Held Products, which is the largest manufacturer of handheld bar code scanners in the world, was started and HQ'd in Charlotte in 1983. They got their big break by getting the contract to provide hand held devices for Federal Express. All of that work was done here in Charlotte. In 1999 they moved their HQ to NY. (most likely for better exposure) and I am not aware that they perform any work here in Charlotte these days. In the 80s, a lot of electrical engineers from UNCC went to work there.

The Bell System was broken up by the federal government into various different companies in 1983 and the resulting aftermath was not good for Charlotte. AT&T got the long distance portion and Southern Bell (aka BellSouth) got the local portion. This resulted in very painful separations of facilities in Charlotte because it once was the center of telephone operations in western NC. 1000s got laid off in the process. There was also a very large Western Electric plant on North Tryon where they manufactured equipment for the Bell System. That place also employed many people ranging from manufacturing workers to truck drivers, engineers, logistics people etc. The building is still there which was converted, for a while, into a large satellite jail. I am not sure what it is used for today. They probably had close to 10,000 employees in Charlotte in their heyday. There are abandoned buildings all over the city from this. One of the more notible ones, one that has great views of Charlotte, is abandoned on Crisman St.

Apple computer also had a development facility here in Charlotte. It used to be in a fairly large building that can be seen from I77 south of downtown. They pulled out in '91 or '92. I am not sure of the reason but they decided Charlotte wasn't the place for this work as it went to Texas. Electronic Data Systems also made the same decision. They were located in URP. Both maybe had about 1000 or so employees.

Duke Energy for it's part stopped work on the Cherokee nuclear complex in the mid 1980s and as a result 1000s were let go. This ranged from construction workers to highly technical people familiar with nuclear power plant design. The building containment vessel was 1/2 built and after Duke abandoned it, a movie studio filled it with water and filmed the move The Abyss in it.

Microsoft does maintain, these days, around 2200 support office that can be deemed a technical office due to the type of things they handle. It's interesting they tend to shun any kind of involvement in local Charlotte matters though on an individual basis I am sure the employees there do their share. They turned down an attempt to get them to locate in the center city choosing instead to expand their operation out on the suburbs near SC.

Because of this history, Charlotte has a pretty bad reputation in terms of being unfriendly to technical companies. It would seem that it takes governmental money these days, to get anyone in this industry to put jobs in this city.

[Eastman]

I was not aware of why some of those companies left. I did have a friend working on Apple's interior when they suddenly pulled out, and if I recall that was when they were having alot of problems within the company. I think IBM did alot of computer disc production here also.

[JayGee]

There was open hostility between the city council and business leaders against IBM ranging from the salaries that IBM paid (too high)

[monsoon]

I don't follow that one. What was their issue.....

[AuLukey]

Much of that is gone now as are many of the other engineering companies that were once in Charlotte. Another one that comes to mind was Verbatum which did develop and manufacture computer disk technology.