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Celadon New Town

GRDadof3

By GRDadof3
in Grand Rapids

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Mark Miller Whistle-Stop

Mark Miller

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Unfortunately many of the negative comments are either from people who are not 100% on board with what is going on or from people who, in general, have a very different vision of the way things should be.

I think that this property was zoned as 6 to 8 units per acre of residential. This zoning will not net out as single family detached homes. The rezoning essentially allows for the mix of uses, which is far more important than arbitrary density. I can almost assure that many people who were in opposition to this, probably viewed the appropriate development here as 1/2 acre or 1 acre lots, which was not the way it was zoned and more importantly not the way the property was priced for sale. Incidently, putting low density residential in this spot, was probably not appropriate either, considering the adjacent development patterns.

On the news last night, a resident proclaimed that the plan had changed more in two months than their neighborhood has in 30 years. That is probably true, but doesn't tell the whole story. The plan has probably changed over 15 times since the original layout back in the middle of May. Two of the biggest changes were the result of avoiding a high number of regulated wetlands (which forced the original grid to be substantially altered) and the developer listening to concerned citizens and township planners in regards to amount and quality of retail.

Based upon Mosaic Properties interest and track record of high quality, I think that this project can be a big asset for this area and look forward to seeing the project continue to develop.

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Mark Miller Whistle-Stop

Mark Miller

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GRGuy- Prices have not been established for any of the units, although design development documents have been completed and preliminary construction pricing will begin shortly. This will hopefully help the developer begin to set some sale prices.

It is the developer's intent to make these units cost competitive, particularly with the live-works and the work-works, because of the fact that they are new building types to this region.

Hood- I think you are correct. The office building does look more like a residential typology in the form of an estate or mansion. I am not that crazy about it, but I will say that in comparison to other recent office construction, it is better than most.

As far as the other architecture being "odd", I am not sure what you mean. It is certainly different than most of the schlock built in the suburbs. This architecture has gone through many transformations, when it started it was far more traditional, but through various iterations, it has had some elements attached to it, which seem neither modern nor traditional and thus confused. I am still holding out hope that, when it is all assembled, it will resemble a real place. We shall see.

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Mark Miller Whistle-Stop

Mark Miller

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Andy 112129:

Most of the buildings are in the range of two story.

The end units of the live-work and townhouse buildngs will have a loft level overlooking the second floor, which will give them three floors. We may be making a few modifications to the roof so that dormers will bring some additional light into these loft spaces. This may also give the appearance of a 2 1/2 story building. Both of these buildings will have a ridge line of 32 feet to 36 feet.

So to answer your question, we are stuck with the range of 35 feet. Since it is planned as a PUD we can set this limit, but we also have to keep in mind that to just get mixed use and this kind of density is a major breakthrough in the township, or just about anywhere for that matter.

There is also a proposed "loft building" which may push the height up slightly.

While two stories may not be optimum, I think that it should be OK at this location. Contextually there is not much that goes higher. The bank on the corner is two story. Keep in mind that we are attempting to transition from the development along the beltline to something a bit more "residential". Just the way the approval process worked out.

Three story would probably work well here too. In most cases, many New Urbanist are proponents of three to five story buidings. Leon Krier, the godfather of NU, has indicated that 5 story is a limit. Of course, there are always exceptions to every rule.

andrew69:

The house has a 22 foot wide overall width. It is 17 foot wide if you take off the side porch. It is narrow, but not really that narrow from a historical precedent standpoint. The house is a "two story", although most of the second story is in the very steep roof, which is at a 16/12 slope. The building will definately have a vertical feel. We recently did some homes in Pentwater that were 24 to 26 foot wide, and they have proven to be quite livable. They also make site placement alot more urban. This 24 to 26 foot width is typical of many pre WWII homes, which were placed on 40 foot wide lots. I used to live in a 26 foot wide bungalow on a 40 foot wide lot. It was a very humanly proportioned house.

All of these homes will have alley loaded garages, which can only help their site disposition.

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andrew.w Hamlet

andrew.w

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The house has a 22 foot wide overall width. It is 17 foot wide if you take off the side porch. It is narrow, but not really that narrow from a historical precedent standpoint. The house is a "two story", although most of the second story is in the very steep roof, which is at a 16/12 slope. The building will definately have a vertical feel. We recently did some homes in Pentwater that were 24 to 26 foot wide, and they have proven to be quite livable. They also make site placement alot more urban. This 24 to 26 foot width is typical of many pre WWII homes, which were placed on 40 foot wide lots. I used to live in a 26 foot wide bungalow on a 40 foot wide lot. It was a very humanly proportioned house.

All of these homes will have alley loaded garages, which can only help their site disposition.

17ft is a good width: with 6 inch walls there would still be 16ft inside. It just looks narrower in the rendering. There were some new townhouses constructed in Ludington were the rooms are only about 12ft wide and those seem too narrow.

BTW: were the houses in Pentwater that you were refering to some of the historical houses downtown or that new development of craftsman/bungalows that I think is called The Cottages at Lites Woods

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joeDowntown Metropolis

joeDowntown

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Mosaic builds really cool buildings. Balsam Hill in Cascade is one of the coolest condo developments I have ever seen. If you ever get the chance, drive out and take a look. The development looks like has been there since the 1920's...

Joe

Like this proposal or not, and I'm not sure I do, Mosaic is a quality company. They defiantly pay attention to details. It would be nice to see the site plan and renderings.
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OneSweetWorld Whistle-Stop

OneSweetWorld

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From the Ada to Zeeland section of the Grand Rapids Press:

"The Garden Park mixed-use development project proposed for 20 acres off Knapp Street and Leffingwell Avenue NE was endorsed by the Grand Rapids Planning Commission and considered by the Township Board on Tuesday night. The projet calls for 15 single-family homes, 82 condominiums, 17 live-work units, and 66,000 square feet of commercial development. Developer Mosaic Properties added 1.3 acres to the project for a stormwater retention pond and rain garden, said Rick Polaski, project manager. Some neighbors on Leffingwell continue to protest the development. "When we see so many empty offices on the Beltline and Leonard, and we see doctor's offices that say, 'For Lease', do we really need this on Leffingwell?" asked Pat Stegmeier, a neighbor. The Township Board gives final consideration at its Dec. 19 meeting."

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Mark Miller Whistle-Stop

Mark Miller

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This project should start moving relatively quickly. The developer is still planning to break ground in early to mid 2007. The site plans have to be engineered prior to that.

As far as the philosophical change, I think that was cast a long time ago, especially when the townhip approved a 400,000 sf lifestyle center, as Civitas mentions. This pales in comparison to that and will prove to be much more in line with what might be appropriately scaled township type development.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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This project should start moving relatively quickly. The developer is still planning to break ground in early to mid 2007. The site plans have to be engineered prior to that.

As far as the philosophical change, I think that was cast a long time ago, especially when the townhip approved a 400,000 sf lifestyle center, as Civitas mentions. This pales in comparison to that and will prove to be much more in line with what might be appropriately scaled township type development.

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joeDowntown Metropolis

joeDowntown

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Like I mentioned before, Mosaic builds some fine properties. Just look at Balsam Hill. Personally I think it's the nicest development in GR. Big houses, but you would never realize it when driving in the development. Garages in back, very quaint look. :thumbsup: I can't wait to see what they do here!

What lake is next to the development. I used to drive down Knapp every day and never realized there was that large a body of water right there...

Joe

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