Reuniting the Triad

[krazeeboi]

You have to look at the big picture that will take both Greensboro and Winston-Salem to a whole new level. Like others have said, do you want WInston-Salem competing with cities like Knoxville, Richmond and Chattanooga? or cities like Nashville and Charlotte?

[twincity]

Today's news is a perfect example of what us Winstonians are liking. Keep us separate! Winston is finally getting a little shine!

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/06/06...tart_over/8.htm

[beyonce245]

Im not buying it. If this was Greensboro, I GUARANTEE that it would have been posted on this board with the quickness...probably with its own thread. And you know what, theres nothing wrong with that. If a magazine features your city in a positive light, by all means share.

My intentions of posting that link was to show what people have been debating about on this thread. And that is Winston-Salem, being separate, is finally being seen for what it is. Nothing more.

[twincity]

My intentions of posting that link was to show what people have been debating about on this thread. And that is Winston-Salem, being separate, is finally being seen for what it is. Nothing more.

[cityboi]

As a city, Winston-Salem's peers are indeed the first set of cities you listed; same goes for Greensboro. As a region, however, the entire Triad can compete with metro Nashville, etc. on some levels. Metro areas where there is just one dominant city have a certain advantage over multinodal metro areas.

[ChiefJoJo]

thats true and we can all see the power of three cities with the Triangle. Raleigh-Durham is able to compete in the big leagues because they have done a great job working together to attract high paying jobs and marketing themselves as one community. The mentality of Greensboro and Winston-Salem doing their own thing is harmful to our region and as long as the Triad has that mentality, we'll never be in the same league as Charlotte or Nashville. Winston-Salem or any other cities doesn't have to have their name at the top of a metro to get recognized. Its the initiatives that a city takes that give the city recognition. Quite frankly Winston is laying the ground work for national recognition in what will become the largest "urban" research park in America. But it only makes Winston-Salem, Greensboro and High Point stronger if they all work together. There are plenty of opportunities for that with the Heart of the Triad project.

[cityboi]

The Triangle's success is derived from having three top research universities in the region. RTP only exists because of those universities and the partnerships they foster. Don't overstate the level of cooperation in the Triangle. In many ways, the area has struggled to think regionally, and to some degree has only recently been forced into dealing with issues of regional significance. I also would not attempt to repeat the mistakes of RTP. Sure, it has been an economic engine, but the days of sprawling auto-oriented, single use research parks are fading fast. It would be best to reconsider the RTP model for the HOT, which from what I've seen, looks like a close cousin in the way that it replicates many of the same land use & transportation mistakes.

[Beany]

I applaud the idea and effort going into Heart of the Triad but I question some of the things they seem to be focusing on. I agree it seems like they have been using an RTP model to landscape that area into some kind of office park. We do not need an office park between the cities, spreading more sprawl, and drawing more workers away from our center cities. Instead of spending so much time on planning how the area between W-S and GSO should develop into a hub of sorts I wish HOT participants would focus on one idea or project which could work in that area. Come up with something exciting all three cities could rally around and support for the area. When the major league baseball talks were going around I heard more "Piedmont Triad" talk then perhaps ever. It was something both Forsyth and Guilford counties came together on. It didn't work out but that is the type of talk we need. At least for that brief period of time we were the "Triad" and not just Greensboro, Winston-Salem and High Point.

I agree if we go our own separate ways and function as individual cities we will not grow as well as we will marketing ourselves together.

[beyonce245]

I applaud the idea and effort going into Heart of the Triad but I question some of the things they seem to be focusing on. I agree it seems like they have been using an RTP model to landscape that area into some kind of office park. We do not need an office park between the cities, spreading more sprawl, and drawing more workers away from our center cities. Instead of spending so much time on planning how the area between W-S and GSO should develop into a hub of sorts I wish HOT participants would focus on one idea or project which could work in that area. Come up with something exciting all three cities could rally around and support for the area. When the major league baseball talks were going around I heard more "Piedmont Triad" talk then perhaps ever. It was something both Forsyth and Guilford counties came together on. It didn't work out but that is the type of talk we need. At least for that brief period of time we were the "Triad" and not just Greensboro, Winston-Salem and High Point.

I agree if we go our own separate ways and function as individual cities we will not grow as well as we will marketing ourselves together.

[Beany]

I don't see HOT as a unifying project for the Triad, but merely an effort to prevent haphazard development in anticipation of growth around the airport area. Real Estate developers left to their own devices can do significant damage. But it's not like local leaders have done much to stop it from happening anyway.

[beyonce245]

You are right. Perhaps Forsyth and Guilford county planning departments should be focusing on this area.

[krazeeboi]

I still think that the HOT project will ultimately detract from the urban cores of the cities in the Triad. I think that efforts would be better suited towards possibly creating urban growth boundaries to limit sprawl or let the city/county planning entities work towards coming up with better design standards in suburbia.

I think that each city should focus on the quality of life within its own boundaries and cooperate on issues that are truly regional in nature. What makes this a bit difficult in the case of the Triad is that the two largest cities are practically the same size and each is vying to be the "big dog."

[yadkinv]

OK, it's true that the MLB would have probably failed and that it was all a ploy anyway, but the voters at the time did not know or even suspect such a gambit. So, the vote still makes a statement from the folk in Greensboro. Hey, I had heard of the proposed complex in the 1960's, but was not aware that W-S would have approved, but not Greensboro - most intersting - what a shame, I agree the entire area would have developed differently.

The W-S MSA is right at 500k, not 300-400k, and it is growing. I still say W-S should market itself as the capital of Northwest NC and the gateway to the Blue Ridge (which it is in NC) as well as Gateway to the Yadkin Valley Wine Country.

The HOT seems to be some sort of half-hearted (pun intended) attempt to do what RTP did, but it's too little too late, and will suck life from PTRP in W-S as well as the research park being developed in Greensboro (an obvious tit for tat at W-S developing PTRP).

All of the so-called cooperative development focuses on the airport, and that, as we've noted, is not a true cooperative effort. I repeat, it does matter perceptively, psychologically, and practically the particular name that is listed first in the region - this is proven time and again. Regarding the Raleigh-Durham example at least on the airport boards nationwide, its ALWAYS listed as Raleigh-Durham or Raleigh/Durham; on the other hand, it's ALWAYS just Greensboro (occasionally it will be Greensboro/High Point mostly years ago); W-S is NEVER mentioned, nor is Piedmont Triad. It would be easy to do so with abbreviations as is done with other cumbersome name references, but it just ain't done. One explanation is that Smith Reynolds is still a functional airport, and so if this is the reason then let's market Smith Reynolds since that's what's keeping W-S off the national boards. It just doesn't work. Greensboro folk (not anyone on this forum, of course) talk a good game, but sit back and realize that since Greensboro's name is first that proposing tidbits will always work to their advantage, and there's nothing wrong with this because it's just business albeit, very good business.

So, once again, I hope the MSA's remain separate.

[cityboi]

OK, it's true that the MLB would have probably failed and that it was all a ploy anyway, but the voters at the time did not know or even suspect such a gambit. So, the vote still makes a statement from the folk in Greensboro. Hey, I had heard of the proposed complex in the 1960's, but was not aware that W-S would have approved, but not Greensboro - most intersting - what a shame, I agree the entire area would have developed differently.

The W-S MSA is right at 500k, not 300-400k, and it is growing. I still say W-S should market itself as the capital of Northwest NC and the gateway to the Blue Ridge (which it is in NC) as well as Gateway to the Yadkin Valley Wine Country.

The HOT seems to be some sort of half-hearted (pun intended) attempt to do what RTP did, but it's too little too late, and will suck life from PTRP in W-S as well as the research park being developed in Greensboro (an obvious tit for tat at W-S developing PTRP).

All of the so-called cooperative development focuses on the airport, and that, as we've noted, is not a true cooperative effort. I repeat, it does matter perceptively, psychologically, and practically the particular name that is listed first in the region - this is proven time and again. Regarding the Raleigh-Durham example at least on the airport boards nationwide, its ALWAYS listed as Raleigh-Durham or Raleigh/Durham; on the other hand, it's ALWAYS just Greensboro (occasionally it will be Greensboro/High Point mostly years ago); W-S is NEVER mentioned, nor is Piedmont Triad. It would be easy to do so with abbreviations as is done with other cumbersome name references, but it just ain't done. One explanation is that Smith Reynolds is still a functional airport, and so if this is the reason then let's market Smith Reynolds since that's what's keeping W-S off the national boards. It just doesn't work. Greensboro folk (not anyone on this forum, of course) talk a good game, but sit back and realize that since Greensboro's name is first that proposing tidbits will always work to their advantage, and there's nothing wrong with this because it's just business albeit, very good business.

So, once again, I hope the MSA's remain separate.

[Beany]

I don't know where one should place their bitterness and blame on the airport thing. It certainly should not be directed toward Greensboro or the airport itself. The airport has long been named Piedmont Triad International. You can't get more regional then that. I assume the FAA and the airline industry are the ones referring to it as Greensboro. I guess you would have to petition them if you want to see it changed.

I hope the 2010 census will put the MSA back together. I don't think W-S suffered any growth when the MSA's were defined together. I don't think W-S has anything to gain being alone.

As the Triangle continues to spill over to the west Greensboro will focus more of its growth in that direction. Eastern Guilford county has seen a lot of new homes in recent years and that will only continue. It will be interesting to see how that affects the regional relationships. You may see closer ties between Greensboro and Burlington than you do Greensboro and Winston.

[suburban george3]

You may see closer ties between Greensboro and Burlington than you do Greensboro and Winston.

[beyonce245]

As far as all this airport talk, can we cease and desist? We all got hot and heavy over the naming issue in the airport thread, let's not rehash everything again here...

[citykidd]

I'm totally for re-uniting the Triad, but I kinda feel my hometown of Greensboro rarely gets notice on the national scene. All over the internet including sites like citysearch, yahoo, and other sites for local news and events, Greensboro is rarely listed. Instead, Winston-Salem gets the attention and recognition. Even in real life Greensboro tends to suffer from a inferior status especially in comparison to its western sister.

[JerseyBoy]

I'm totally for re-uniting the Triad, but I kinda feel my hometown of Greensboro rarely gets notice on the national scene. All over the internet including sites like citysearch, yahoo, and other sites for local news and events, Greensboro is rarely listed. Instead, Winston-Salem gets the attention and recognition. Even in real life Greensboro tends to suffer from a inferior status especially in comparison to its western sister.

[citykidd]

Not to deny your observations or start a city vs. city issue, but I think Greensboro gets plenty of attention due it being the more populated of the two.

[JerseyBoy]

I politelty disagree, because Winston still has a better reputation in the national scope of things.

[gso27]

From my perspective (here in Ohio), neither Greensboro or Winston-Salem get much real press. Especially compaired to Charlotte or RDU. High-Point may actually have more recognition due to the furniture market (a few of my friends are interior designers/buyers). Amoungst liberal treehugger types, Greensboro gets mentioned because of progressive Guilford College, the Proxcimity Hotel or downtown nightlife. Winston-Salem seems to find it's way in films more often and it's most notable products bear it's name (Winston and Salem cigarettes). Who really cares where the airport is and what's it's name is. Whenever you fly into the Triad, it looks like one big city (especially at night). If it's public transportation network were more unified it would appear as one city. That would go a long way to unifying the public's perception of the Triad as one community. I think the next 10 to 15 years will be the Triad's turn to take off, so I hope these petty provincial issues can be resolve because the growth that's comng will need to be managed by the Triad working together.

[crowe1856]

From my perspective (here in Ohio), neither Greensboro or Winston-Salem get much real press.

[RALNATIVE]

I'd second that. When I moved here from NE, people would say "Greensboro? Is that where the Panthers play?" or "How far is that from Raleigh?" One person knew Greensboro because of the golf tournament, but that was about it. Hell, even I had to look it up on the map, and I'd certainly NEVER heard of the "Triad." And while people may have heard of Wake Forest or the tobacco brands, I think few could've told you anything about WS.

[cityboi]

I've always pondered why this area would brand itself the "Triad", when a close neighboring metro was already branded as the "Triangle." For most people, i'm sure that this leads to confusion, and actually, an article that i've read in the past indicates that this was intentional on the part of this region.

It seems as though the "Triad" has spent alot of time trying to move beyond the shadows of Charlotte and Raleigh, but I feel that the ONLY way that this will happen is if the disparate communities come together and promote a unified vision of what they want the "Triad" to be, and it can't be some feeble, half-hearted attempt to replicate what has been accomplished by Charlotte, Raleigh, or any other city for that matter. It would never work anyway. This state needs uniqueness, not more of the same.