THE Downtown Market updates

[GRDadof3]

Are they erecting a whole new building for less than $2 million, or are they renovating an old building? Because those sketches definitely look like it used to be an old warehouse, and from the news so far Grand Action intends to construct something new.

That looks pretty sweet, though, hood. I wonder if Grand Action suddenly wants to build a market now because of Lansing?

Lansing has had a market downtown for years. I would say at least 30 years (from growing up there). It's sort of an indoor/outdoor market, but it's mainly a big garage (now), surrounded by parking lots. Definitely could use a facelift.

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&...0&encType=1

New site plan, along the riverfront:

A few clicks with my google-ometer and it looks like they are tearing down the current market for condos (Gillespie Group) and building a new 13,000 sf $1.6 Million market. That's pretty inexpensive (warehouse pricing).

This parking lot in Monroe North would be a good spot. Especially if they put in the kayak course in this area.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/MR-HEART...mp;hl=heartwell

[GRobserver]

The Charley's Crab property might be interesting, right on the river.

[wingbert]

Put it where Olds Manor is. Nothing else is happening there.

[GRDadof3]

The Charley's Crab property might be interesting, right on the river.

Without anything else around it, it seems like it would just be an island though. And who knows when Amway's finally going to do something with Market & Fulton.

[n_wasmiller]

What about putting a year-round market on the west side of the river? Isn't there a parking lot directly across the Grand River from DeVos Place on Bridge (across from RiverHouse condos)? It would be a quick walk for people attending conventions.

I think we need to utilize that side of the river more and a year-round market would help do that. Plus, it is right by the highway for all the folks from the suburbs.

[joeDowntown]

Over my dead body!

Joe

Put it where Olds Manor is. Nothing else is happening there.

[Veloise]

What about putting a year-round market on the west side of the river? Isn't there a parking lot directly across the Grand River from DeVos Place on Bridge (across from RiverHouse condos)? It would be a quick walk for people attending conventions.

I think we need to utilize that side of the river more and a year-round market would help do that. Plus, it is right by the highway for all the folks from the suburbs.

That's the parking lot for Jerry's fans.

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&...3&encType=1

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&...6&encType=1

Edited June 16, 2009 by Veloise

[egrguy]

Being blessed with Seattle's Pike Place Market, the lure of the market for tourists (it seems to be the #1 place to bring out of town visitors) plus its a regular stop for many city dwellers and people in the suburbs alike.

The market is build upon fresh fruit, veggies, seafood, local food shops plus amazing eateries.

I think GR can do the same if not on a smaller scale, Im thinking (Koeze's nuts, Kilwin's Chocolates, and so on), but I think a Farmers Marker would be an excellent asset for GR.

[RegalTDP]

The Monroe North lot is a good idea. It'd complement the park nicely, and if it's successful, bring some future development into that area (and who knows? Maybe Icon on Bond will start selling some units ). My concern is about drawing the out-of-towners... If I was a convention-goer exiting Devos Place, I wouldn't think Monroe Ave. looks very inviting to the north and wouldn't head that way.

My other suggestion is in the Grandville/Market area for the same reason. If downtown development is destined to expand, it's going to be in these two areas. I don't think the Market/Fulton lot is a good fit, but how about across the street, between Grandville, Weston, & Market?

[wingbert]

Maybe Duane Faust still owns some options they could use along the river?

[trongrr]

Speaking of Farmer's Market's - I was in Traverse City yesterday for a meeting and noticed a multi-use lot on Grandview Parkway between Union and Cass. I'm thinking the same could be done somewhere on Monroe N or elsewhere.

[Coleco]

Speaking of Farmer's Market's - I was in Traverse City yesterday for a meeting and noticed a multi-use lot on Grandview Parkway between Union and Cass. I'm thinking the same could be done somewhere on Monroe N or elsewhere.

What about putting on Monroe across from DeVos Place, replacing the stone wall that greets conventioneers with something that encourages them to cross the street. Parking beneath City Hall and DeVos Place could also serve the market.

[fotoman311]

Speaking of Farmer's Market's - I was in Traverse City yesterday for a meeting and noticed a multi-use lot on Grandview Parkway between Union and Cass. I'm thinking the same could be done somewhere on Monroe N or elsewhere.

I think that Grand Action is aiming for something much more ambitious than this that would really become an attraction and draw people in.

I kind of like Coleco's idea of something replacing the ugly wall across from the Convention Center, however, that location is not centered near much of the other entertainment (although it's still a short walk to many of these places) and there's not much room around it for it to spur more development.

[GRDadof3]

I think that Grand Action is aiming for something much more ambitious than this that would really become an attraction and draw people in.

I kind of like Coleco's idea of something replacing the ugly wall across from the Convention Center, however, that location is not centered near much of the other entertainment (although it's still a short walk to many of these places) and there's not much room around it for it to spur more development.

Agreed. Looking at the current downtown pedestrian "lukewarm zones" (yellow) and "hot zones" (red), I think it should be placed either touching one of these zones, or very close to one or more of them. In the middle of a bunch of them (Macatawa site) would be even better.

[Rizzo]

I know some here are probably going to roll their eyes, but don't forget about the street railway. I'm serious.

[Allison Slater]

On that map I'd say Fountain between Bostwick and Ionia could probably be another yellow zone. You do have to take in the demographics of each pedestrian area, though. The idea of a market may be decent with liberal college kids, but are they going to have much money to spend at the market? How would office worker traffic respond to a market? Tourist traffic? Figure out which demographic it should appeal to, and then figure out where their foot traffic is on that map.

[RegalTDP]

By all means, call me off-base, but I don't think the current pedestrian traffic patterns are much of a factor. I expect the market to enhance foot traffic in its vicinity, rather than feed off of it, so we should be looking at the map to see where we can add more yellow and red zones. The reason I think these year-round markets have worked in other cities (and will work in this city) is because they draw people from all over the area, especially in from the suburbs. I think people who usually never see downtown will come in for this. Some people just flat out like getting their food at local farm markets, and if they are, they're willing to drive extra miles to go to them.

So therefore, and I know this isn't a popular thing to say on UrbanPlanet, but we need to put this in a downtown spot that's easy to drive to, as opposed to walk to. That's why I think Grand Action is particularly looking at big parking lots. I only see this market succeeding with suburbanite support, so we need to ensure they have room to roll in with their Tahoes.

Edited June 18, 2009 by RegalTDP

[GRDadof3]

By all means, call me off-base, but I don't think the current pedestrian traffic patterns are much of a factor. I expect the market to enhance foot traffic in its vicinity, rather than feed off of it, so we should be looking at the map to see where we can add more yellow and red zones. The reason I think these year-round markets have worked in other cities (and will work in this city) is because they draw people from all over the area, especially in from the suburbs. I think people who usually never see downtown will come in for this. Some people just flat out like getting their food at local farm markets, and if they are, they're willing to drive extra miles to go to them.

So therefore, and I know this isn't a popular thing to say on UrbanPlanet, but we need to put this in a downtown spot that's easy to drive to, as opposed to walk to. That's why I think Grand Action is particularly looking at big parking lots. I only see this market succeeding with suburbanite support, so we need to ensure they have room to roll in with their Tahoes.

Yes, but do you just want the market to be an island unto itself? Even if busy, does it do anything for downtown if people just roll in with their Tahoes and then roll out? Why can't it do a couple of things: contribute to the pedestrian vibe (not just the auto congestion vibe), and appeal to suburbanites? Right now, there are too many gaps between pedestrian hot spots (just look at the map). The area from Monroe Center down Ionia to the Ionia Ave entertainment area is a dead zone. Monroe Avenue from in front of city hall to the Brassworks Buildings is a dead zone. Do we need more dead zones between destinations? No. In fact, if positioned well, the market could serve as an "anchor" for a pedestrian zone.

And Rizzo is right. If Grand Action has anything to do with the streetcar going in, then I'd guess more than several of those "ten lots" they are looking at are along Monroe Ave.

[RegalTDP]

Maybe I should've worded the last post differently - "as easy to drive to as it is to walk to" - maybe that would have been better. I wasn't envisioning Dodger Stadium here. I agree Louis Street is a pedestrian dead zone, and actually, despite what I said, the big parking ramps make it a pretty easy driving destination... But I still don't think we should put it there.

The "Roll In, Roll Out" crowd is going to show up regardless of where you put this, and they'll probably make up most of the business. For your typical suburbanite, if food purchasing isn't an errand in and of itself, it's the last in a chain of errands. I think the real value in this market isn't its pedestrian-friendliness, but its potential to spur more retail around it, and revitalize interest in a whole new neighborhood... and at that point I think the pedestrians will come. Louis Street is a dead zone now, but all the streets around it aren't. For me, I think it's only a matter of time until developers move over a block and start filling in Louis. I don't think it needs the help of this market.

And as for the Monroe dead zone, keep in mind I said before I think North Monroe is a good place for it, for the reason above - to spur retail interest in that area (and with the streetcar, even better). However, even if it's there, the Michigan/Monroe intersection will still be dead. I don't think there's a single person here that doesn't loathe that corner. But nothing can be done about that unless either the Post Office or the GR Press decide to move.

Edited June 18, 2009 by RegalTDP

[GRDadof3]

Maybe I should've worded the last post differently - "as easy to drive to as it is to walk to" - maybe that would have been better. I wasn't envisioning Dodger Stadium here. I agree Louis Street is a pedestrian dead zone, and actually, despite what I said, the big parking ramps make it a pretty easy driving destination... But I still don't think we should put it there.

The "Roll In, Roll Out" crowd is going to show up regardless of where you put this, and they'll probably make up most of the business. For your typical suburbanite, if food purchasing isn't an errand in and of itself, it's the last in a chain of errands. I think the real value in this market isn't its pedestrian-friendliness, but its potential to spur more retail around it, and revitalize interest in a whole new neighborhood... and at that point I think the pedestrians will come. Louis Street is a dead zone now, but all the streets around it aren't. For me, I think it's only a matter of time until developers move over a block and start filling in Louis. I don't think it needs the help of this market.

And as for the Monroe dead zone, keep in mind I said before I think North Monroe is a good place for it, for the reason above - to spur retail interest in that area (and with the streetcar, even better). However, even if it's there, the Michigan/Monroe intersection will still be dead. I don't think there's a single person here that doesn't loathe that corner. But nothing can be done about that unless either the Post Office or the GR Press decide to move.

I hear what you're saying. I'm just hoping that when they make the announcement, we're not all scratching our heads and thinking "another golden opportunity lost." Like I want to say, Dear Grand Action: "please do not put the market at the old Auto Parts Store site on Market Ave (the big city-owned land area/mystery project area), or some other lame spot to try and trigger other development that might not ever come in my lifetime" Monroe Ave/Monroe North would get my vote if asked.

[n_wasmiller]

In related news...

Lansing announced yesterday that it will modify plans for its year-round market, reducing the square footage to fit its budget. The new market will now be about 11,400 square foot and is scheduled in open in December.

The new building will replace the structure that has housed the market for about 70 years. It houses about 40 vendors.

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article...328/1002/NEWS01

[GRDadof3]

Two thoughts came to mind on this recently: They're doing an awful lot of work on the parking lot across from Bistro Bella Vita. The entire site is torn up and they are doing underground utility work. Possible? The other thought was, I'll bet the WAM site on North Monroe has been investigated for this. I don't know if the hotel will ever get off the ground, and there's a lot of parking for the market across the street and on Monroe.

[n_wasmiller]

Two thoughts came to mind on this recently: They're doing an awful lot of work on the parking lot across from Bistro Bella Vita. The entire site is torn up and they are doing underground utility work. Possible? The other thought was, I'll bet the WAM site on North Monroe has been investigated for this. I don't know if the hotel will ever get off the ground, and there's a lot of parking for the market across the street and on Monroe.

I like both of these ideas. The parking lot by Bistro would be preferred.

[gvstudent]

The other thought was, I'll bet the WAM site on North Monroe has been investigated for this. I don't know if the hotel will ever get off the ground, and there's a lot of parking for the market across the street and on Monroe.

The guy working on the Hotel sent a letter to the Monroe North Business Association to give an update on the Monroe North project. He was working on a hotel in Bay City/Midland area and that took up a lot of his time. He said looking back, he wishes he would have built the Monroe North hotel before the one in Bay City/Midland. Anyway, the building on the WAM site is supposed to be demolished by August.

[Allison Slater]

So the North Monroe Hotel is still a go? I figured it was just another pipe dream by now.