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monsoon

Iran Election

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clearly there was a major case of fraud But president Obama is doing the correct thing by not getting involved at this point.

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clearly there was a major case of fraud But president Obama is doing the correct thing by not getting involved at this point.

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ole John McCain is saying we need to get involved. Thank God he is not our president today. I still think about that song he likes to sing "Bomb Bomb Iran"

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we've maxed out our credit cards, we can't get involved. who would lend us the capital needed to intervene?

it is amusing to watch the contrasting policies of bush and obama. props to the people of iran for having the courage and constitution to stand strong for justice.

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This protest will definitely have a lasting effect on Iran. I think its smart for Obama not to get us involved and he had it right when he said that me make "a convenient political football." Any alleged support from the US of opposition figures could quickly erode the opposition's momentum, with people seeing it as a puppet of the US. I've also read that a number of people all over the world are switching thier stated location to Iran on Twitter, Facebook and other services as Revolutionary Guards have been going to the internet and picking out opposition by viewing people's locations, so now there are a lot more people showing as being from Iran, making it difficult for the Revolutionary Guards to do this.

That being said, I think we are witnessing history in the making and there are some definite wildcards in play that could very well bring down the regime there. We have no need to get involved and as we have seen, the government there has been unsuccessful thus far in preventing things from leaking out to the outside world. If there is a mass crackdown there, it will only further isolate Iran from the world, not to mention, further anger the populace. The next protest if that were to happen might not be so peaceful. The opposition IMO is doing everything right here and when you go around to various blogs and other sights from around the world, it is clear they are winning the hearts and minds of people all over the world. Oh and we had an Iranian-American Rally here in Raleigh too :)

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Has anyone noticed how impotent the commercial news has been concerning what is going on in Iran? The best theystuff that can do is read the same stuff that we can on the internet. Ironically it was the Iranian revolution of 1979 that created the style of news that has come to exist on the 24 hour channels. Now this revolution might be the beginning of their irrelevancy in anything important.

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^

The problem is that Iran has banned foreign media from evening leaving their offices, so actual coverage is limited to either what the Iranian government is putting out or broadcast what Iranian people are putting up on the net about what is actually happening. They are telling the foreign media, even Al Jazeera at that, that they must contact government officials for the news on the ground and we all know everything the Iranian regime will tell the media is propaganda and hogwash. The only truths they will get will be from the Iranian people themselves.

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I was just reading an article on how support for the opposition has really picked up steam around the world. Even in China, interestingly enough, the Chinese media are covering it, which is rather shocking when you consider how repressive the Chinese regime is. The Chinese government isn't even censoring it thus far and Chinese people are speaking out about it. The reason I find that unusual is because such things can obviously inspire such movements in repressive countries and seeing this could certainly bring something China has been repressing for years to mind again, the Tienanmen Square massacre. Here are some of the things from this and various articles I have read on things being done. Its clear now that the Iranian regime doesn't have just its own populace to worry about, but that of the entire world now. I find it exciting and refreshing to see that that we have people from all over the world coming together to aid opposition to an oppressive government without any type of involvement from their country's government:

Google has rushed out a Farsi translator, in addition to a search engine in Farsi.

Facebook now provides a version of its site in Farsi.

Twitter has postponed scheduled downtime to ensure the service is up for Iranian users. On top of this, scores of Twitter users around the world, after it has been discovered that Revolutionary Guard members hunt down Iranian Twitter users by looking at their alleged location on Twitter, have switched their locations on Twitter to Iran to help provide cover for the actual Iranians.

To aid the Iranian people in communicating and transmitting videos, pictures, etc to the outside world and to organize protests, people all over the world have set up proxy servers the allow the opposition to skirt Iranian blocks of internet sites and other services.

Some websites are setting up privacy services for Iranians to surf anonymously and independent hackers are working at launching attacks on Iranian government computers.

BBC and Voice of America have allocated additional satellites to broadcasting inside of Iran. The Iranian government has been jamming the signals of their other satellites and it is expected that additional satellites broadcasting will strengthen the signals there and make it tougher to jam.

Youtube make a statement directed at the Iranian government stating that they would allow all videos from Iran to be posted because they had "merit."

On another note, a suicide bomber reportedly blew himself up at the the mausoleum of the founder of the Iranian regime, killing 8 and wounding 3 others. This could be the start of a militant element to the opposition movement. I find this whole situation fascinating and we could very well be watching something historical unfold before I very eyes.

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Not to beat a dead horse, but does anyone think this would be happening without the election of Obama as president? I think this is just the first national political shift that will happen in the years to come. Whether the Iranian people succeed in forcing change in their country or not at this time I think it is clear that change will occur there. The sudden show of will by the Pakistan government in fighting the Taliban and Al Quadea elements there after years of appeasement coincides with Obama's election. It feels like there is a general shift towards a better world that may take a while but is inevitable. Yea, America!

I should add that while I realize that some of the posters on this forum have an antipathy to patriotic expressions I can't imagine a more appropriate use of one than this. Rebuttal is welcome and expected.

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Not to beat a dead horse, but does anyone think this would be happening without the election of Obama as president? ....

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Not to beat a dead horse, but does anyone think this would be happening without the election of Obama as president?

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I heard an estimate of 150 deaths so far in this uprising.

How absolutely sad for the Iranian people. First they endured a CIA-imposed dictatorship from 1953-1979. And since then they've suffered under the yoke of a bizarre authoritarian theocracy.

It makes me so full of sorrow to see all the street fighting on the news. Will the Persian people ever be allowed to be free?

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The events you listed would have likely happened regardless of who is president. As Monsoon pointed out, the Iranian situation didn't just happen overnight, but was something building up over the years, on top of the fact that around 60% of the Iranian population is under 30 and as a result, has no connections or memories linked to the 1979 revolution. All they know is what their parents tell them of the 1979 revolution and the only oppression they have personally experienced has come from the current regime.

As for Pakistan, the Taliban and Al-Qaeda were getting dangerously close to the capital, which is what sparked a crackdown, in addition to concerns from all over the world on the security of the nukes. I believe this would have happened regardless of who is president.

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I don't think Obama's election caused these events to occur, but there has been a shift in the tone of dialog between the US and Middle East. John McCain would have had a very hard time being taken seriously on Al-Arabiya or Pakistani television. It is doubtful he would have even tried. Once the tensions are relaxed, it becomes easier for things like the surprising Lebanese election results, the shift in Pakistani feelings towards the Taliban, and the Iranians' displays of disapproval to occur. It was always possible for Hezbollah, the Taliban, and Ahmedenijad to say, "Hey, you don't like what were doing, but America is the enemy so live with it!" It's much harder to do that with a savvy and globally popular American President unlike any before him. Having said that, Obama goes to Cairo giving a highly praised speech, and in a few weeks the people from a state of the supposed "Axis of Evil" are standing up for freedom and democracy, that's a chronology that isn't forgotten -- kinda like walking under a ladder and then dying the next day... only much more pleasant.

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i look to media sources that still maintain a strong network of foreign bureaus: mcclatchey and the christian science monitor have been providing great coverage of current conditions in iran.

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i look to media sources that still maintain a strong network of foreign bureaus: mcclatchey and the christian science monitor have been providing great coverage of current conditions in iran.

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...... I wonder if that is what is happening in North Korea although with it's secrecy the news has not made it out of the country yet. ....

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This is a completely different situation. I doubt that most people in N. Korea have heard much if anything of Obama. There is a bunch of sabre rattling taking place in N. Korea because Kim Jong Il's successor, Kim Jong Woon (presumably), his youngest son is being prepared to take over the country. North Korea's government is essentially a personality cult where the Kims are setup as great leaders whose superhuman acts have saved Korea from imperial aggression. The hard line actions have all been in order to manufacture achievements for Kim Jong Woon. BTW, He is in his 20s and rumored to have been educated in Europe under an assumed name. No known photos exist.

Kim Il-sung - "The Great Leader"

Kim Jong Il - "The Dear Leader"

Kim Jong Woon - "The Brilliant Comrade"

If you had not noticed, in Korean culture, the family name is given first, followed by the given name. (opposite of the west)

North Korea, unlike Iran, has never allowed its citizens access to the outside world and there is no way for them to mount a protest like this. Iran has always been a fairly modern educated country that also had a sizeable middle class up until the revolution 30 years ago. The young there are educated, computer savy and I would say more cognisant of world events than most Americans and now see an opportunity to change the status quo to something better.

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... It still seems reasonable that Kim Jong Il has opponents within his country even if they are well hidden and even in prison. ....

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In North Korea, the internet and cell phones are banned, ensuring that nothing leaks out. Two quotes from Adolf Hitler come to mind here:

"By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise. "

"The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. "

I believe that at this point in time, the only way North Korea is going to fall is from external intervention of some kind...

Be it the Chinese finally loosing all patience with Kim and cutting off all aid. It is headed in that direction now, with both China and Russia have made unusual public statements signaling they are growing very impatient with North Korea and voting to allow the world community to board North Korean ships, which they resisted before.

North Korea making a crazy attempt to invade South Korea. North Korea may have a large army, but their equipment is severely outdated and men, poorly equipped. North Korean forces are no match for South Korean, US and Japanese forces, all of which are light years ahead of their military. The US and Japan would likely blockade North Korea with their navies and the US air force would quickly take control of North Korean airspace. North Korea's air force is very weak, due to the difficulty of getting planes and fuel to operate them, not to mention they have outdated air defenses that couldn't stop our naval and air force fighters. Once their airspace is shut down, they are at our mercy. The chances of China or Russia aiding them are also nil. Neither would benefit in any way from aiding them.

North Korea does some stupid like fire a missile/missiles at South Korea, Japan, our territories, or anyone for that matter. That would likely be taken as a declaration of war and North Korea would swiftly be dealt with.

Fortunately, North Korea's nukes post no real threat to anyone at this time. They have them, but have no way to deliver them. They have no planes that can carry them and they have not miniaturized them yet to the point of being able to fit them on a missile head.

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Today while scouting around online I found this site:

http://greenrevolutioniran.blogspot.com/20...ts-in-iran.html

The images were horrible to see and very moving. I'd been thinking about, then called a friend here in Charlotte who is Iranian born and most of his family is still there. He said as tough as it is to see images like this, for me to remember that people there are risking their lives, and giving their lives, to get these images out -- he asked everyone work to get these out as far as possible, so that's what I'm doing. I've emailed out the link and have posted it where i can.

He also pointed out this in an email following our coversation:

'Iran has one of the most advanced systems in the world to control internet and phone traffic. It's mostly used now days to muzzle protest and its ramifications outside the country. The technology comes from Nokia Siemens Networks, based in Finland. These surveillance programs are also used by the Chinese government. Nokia Siemens Networks doesn't deny that they installed the system known as DPI (deep packet inspection) for Iranian telephone companies and internet service providers, knowing that this would allow them to monitor internet usage.'

We must let the world know what is taking place in IRAN.

United States can quietly or publicly pressure Nokia / Siemens to TURN OFF the DEEP PACKET INSPECTION now.

Imagine the flow of information that would terrify the tyrants and give hope to IRANIANs knowing that all is not in vain.

**I just finished emailing my representatives regarding this -- doubt it will make a difference, but interesting angle.

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.......

North Korea making a crazy attempt to invade South Korea. North Korea may have a large army, but their equipment is severely outdated and men, poorly equipped. North Korean forces are no match for South Korean, US and Japanese forces, all of which are light years ahead of their military. The US and Japan would likely blockade North Korea with their navies and the US air force would quickly take control of North Korean airspace. North Korea's air force is very weak, due to the difficulty of getting planes and fuel to operate them, not to mention they have outdated air defenses that couldn't stop our naval and air force fighters. Once their airspace is shut down, they are at our mercy. The chances of China or Russia aiding them are also nil. Neither would benefit in any way from aiding them......

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This won't be as easy as you make it out to be and the consequences are just as dire for South Korea. The abilities of the US military are well known by the N. Koreans. This is why the country is known for having a vast underground military complex. No country does a better job of building tunnels than N. Korea. Second, Seoul a major modern city is within striking range of the N. Korean military and it's not clear to me the USA has anywhere near enough forces there to defend it. Finally, while the Russians and Chinese are not happy with North Korea, they would be even less happy with USA military jets taking over so close to their territory. I think there would be considerable push back from those countries because as it stands now, N Korea is their direct ally. A united Korea under US control would not be, and both countries would consider an invasion by the USA a direct threat to them. They also have their neo-cons. Finally, we were unable to subdue Iraq. North Korea is a far far more complex place from a military perspective and the cost in US dead would be considerable. Sure eventually we might win the place but as it is in Iraq, what do you get in return?

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....The Chinese and Russians will not rush to the aid of North Korea militarily, China in particular, because of their regime being very image-conscious and rushing to aid a country militarily that is invading another country would be VERY bad PR for China. ...

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