major hotel in the works for downtown Greensboro

[cityboi]

I have my fingers crossed. I found out that the hotel is projected to open January 1, 2012

[sean]

cityboi, i'm really surprised you missed this: vid with the hotel developers

best of luck to all involved, its a really tough time and environment to break ground on any project.

[cityboi]

cityboi, i'm really surprised you missed this: vid with the hotel developers

best of luck to all involved, its a really tough time and environment to break ground on any project.

Actually I did post the link earlier but thanks any way. A number of great things are happening in the Triad's downtowns in a tough economy. The Dash stadium and now it appears we may get a new luxury hotel in downtown Greensboro. We have to keep the momentum going.

[cityboi]

You know, this is kinda funny and serious at the same time. It appears that not only did the city council approve the bonds for the hotel without knowing but the Guilford County Commissioners did as well. But there also seems to be confusion over the feasibilty studies. A recent study concluded the hotel would not generate enough revenue to cover the debt and would hurt business at the Proximity and O'Henry hotels. But another study by the top hotel feasibilty study firm says the hotel project is feasible. Neither study takes into account the office, retail and restaurant portion of the project which would act as a safety net to help pay the debt off. So while this is a serious worth while project there seems to be a fiasco surrounding it with leaders scratching their heads asking what happened? If the council knew they were voting for the bonds at the time, they would not have approved them for the hotel because at the time the hotel was being planned for Lee Street and Elm. That site was not popular among city council members including Robbie Perkins. A few council members believe they were misled on purpose by city staff and that they were bamboozled into voting for the project. However the city council is going to let the project go forward at this point. But before this hotel is a done deal, there is still another approval process at the state level and the bond holders most decided if they want to risk their money on the project. Its unclear which feasibilty studies will be taken into account during the final approval process or how much they will affect their decision. So while this looks promising, lets not pop the champagne bottles just yet. But there was a "slip of the tongue" in regards to the hotel chains by Kaplan, who is part of the hotel groups.

According to Kaplan,

"a national chain like a Wyndham or a Westin must also agree to back the hotel. Without an upscale national brand and all the resources it would bring, Kaplan says his partners aren’t interested in going forward."

earlier Kaplan said "two" major chains were interested. Based on his comments, that tells me that two of the flag luxury brands are interested in locating in downtown Greensboro. I guess my assumptions on the type of brands wasnt so outragous after all.

I think it puts to rest what kind of hotel chain they are looking for. As I stated before, brand name counts and in this case a great deal to help assure this hotel will have a lower than expected vacancy rate. But clearly there are two big hurdles left before this project becomes a reality so its still NOT a done deal. This project will go under more scrutiny at the state level and by the bond holders themselves because they have the most to risk out of this. Meanwhile the city council has to make a decision on the parking deck. My guess is that they will table that decision until they know the outcome of the hotel project itself. But if for some reason or another the state commission or the bond holders don't approve the project, Greensboro and Gulford County will have lost millions in recovery bonds. Thats a big reason this project is getting full support from city council and are hoping this hotel happens because they would be criticized by the public if they carelessly lost millions in federal recovery bonds. The hotel group is going to have to counter the most recent feasibilty report and include their office, retail and restaurant revenue numbers to offset any potential losses. They are going to have to show their own feasibility report that was done in the past as well which says the numbers work.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/01/21/article/more_confusion_over_bond_votes

[cityboi]

Here is an interesting article in Yes Weekly this hints some skepticism is deeply based on racism. The leading developer Bridget Chrisholm of the hotel is African-American and a woman. Her partner in Urban Hotel Group is also African-American. Then there is the fact the county commissioner Skip Alston is involved as a broker. I personally dont think that most of the skepticism is based on race because there are legitimate questions surrounding the project but I do think its part of the reason based on things I have been reading on blogs. There have been some pretty nasty comments on the blogs that are racially toned and have nothing to do the viability of the project. I've even heard one person say part of the reason Chrisholm joined forces with Kaplan was so "this project could have a white face". Chrisholm is the lead developer but it was brought to attention that Kaplan is the spokesperson for the project. There has never been a minority developer that has taken on a project of this scale in the city so some will be skeptic just because of that fact.

http://npaper-wehaa.com/yes-weekly/2010/01/12/#?article=723319

Also, could this project potentially face a legal battle?

Mike Weaver and Dennis Quaintance (owner of the Proximity and O'Henry Hotels) have initiated legal proceedings to force the City of Greensboro and Guilford County to make public all relevant information about their roles in the Recovery Zone bond process. Sounds like to me they are digging for something that may disqualify the project from getting the bonds. Such actions being taken is not surprising because this hotel project would directly compete with his hotels and would take business a way. Dennis and other have voiced their opinions and they believe the hotel wont happen because "the numbers don't work" If thats the case, why the deep concern? If a person thinks the proposal is going to fail, why not just let the chips fall where they may? Dennis's two luxury hotels are locally branded. This hotel would have a national luxury brand like Westin that people are more familiar with and would be located less than 2 miles from the O'Henry and Proximity. So I guess I'd be concerned too if I were Dennis Quantance.

quote from the project's competition:

Mike Weaver: "Like a lot of people, we want more details," Weaver says. "We want transparency, and we want accountability."

I was waiting on this. You know nothing big gets built in Greensboro without controversy.

In regards to the the parking deck, I'd like to see something similar to this one thats being built in Athens, GA. It looks just like a building and has retail lining the street. This deck cost $17 million so im not sure if Greensboro city leaders are willing to cough up that much for a parking deck. But this is the direction we need to go with our parking decks.

Parking deck in Athens, GA

[cityboi]

folks this is getting nasty and the crap has really hit the fan now. This is turning into a race war. As Dennis and Weaver threaten a law suit, supporters of the project claim racism and are threatening to march in protest in front of the International Civil Rights Museum. Supporters claim there is a general mood against this project that has racial overtones because of African-American involvement. The lead developer is black, Skip Alson, who is also black is the projects broker and finally the Ole Ashboro neighborhood, an African-American neighborhood would get a share in profits. Many have said negative things just because Skip Alston is involved. Supporters of the hotel project are threatening a march on the day of the Civil Rights Museum opening and in front of the museum. According to one source HUNDREDS may march in protest and the NAACP may even get involved. So if this is done on the opening of the museum, the project controversy could likely make the news far beyond the Triad. Guess who else will be at the museum on that day....Jesse Jackson and maybe Al Sharpton.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/01/23/article/hoteliers_my_sue_over_ole_asheboro_project

[luvdowntowngso]

With this latest development, it will be in the courts for a while and this hotel won't be built for 10 years!

[cityboi]

I think the race stuff is being blown out of proportion. I'm very troubled that things have gotten to this point and the last thing the city needs is negative press.

I respect Dennis Quaintance knowlege in the hotel industry but its not up to him to decide if another development group's hotel project moves forward. It shows arrogance in my opinion and he fears that he may lose his monopoly of the luxury hotel market in Greensboro. Thats what it all comes down to. Its a game of politics. I think one reason why some think race is involved is because these same people in the hotel industry never questioned the other hotel projects that were being proposed for downtown before this one. Two of the projects also called for luxury hotels and people are questioning why some are so outspoken about this one. Meanwhile city-council has been advised not to say anything about the project pending a law suit.

One thing I found out is that Dennis Quaintance was proposing a downtown hotel himself around the time Urban Group proposed theirs. Dennis's project didnt get media coverage and was brushed aside by the city because he didnt have plans by mid December. But there is irony that Dennis would come out and say there is no market for another downtown hotel and at the same time he proposes one. Sounds like sour grapes to me. Someone else beat him to the punch. Its ok for him to build a downtown hotel but its not ok for anyone else to do the same.

[Beany]

Why does there have to be so much drama?!? It is clear to me that DQ is just looking out for his own interest. He is guarding his turf so to speak. If he had built the Proximity downtown he would have protected his turf. As is he left the downtown market wide open for someone else to take advantage of it. I think he realizes that if this is built a good number of people will choose this downtown hotel over his hotels at Friendly.

[cityboi]

I think he realizes that if this is built a good number of people will choose this downtown hotel over his hotels at Friendly.

Especially if its a brand like Westin or Wyndham. If you are coming in town on business and you are looking for luxury accomidations, you are more likely going to stay at a hotel brand that you know and thats more well known. A Westin or a Wyndham has that prestige. And yes more people would stay at the downtown hotel as oppose to a hotel in a suburban style office park. Dennis built his hotels next to a big outdoor shopping mall. That has been the hotel development trend of the 1970s and 80s. Mainly because during that time, there was nothing much going on in Greensboro and nothing going on downtown. Times have changed and people want to walk right outside their hotel for food, entertainment, ect. Its ashame Dennis built a very nice urban hotel in an office park. He should have built it downtown. Its less than 2 miles away. Now hes having regrets. If people want transparency they can go to the ARRA website. All this is unneccesary and it only invites drama like this race protest.

[cityboi]

The motives are confirmed. Weaver/Quantance was looking to build a 45 room boutique hotel last year at the corner of North Church St and Friendly Ave according to city-council members. Yet in this article Weaver is lying about it and said he never had such plans. Why dont we do our own investigation and look in the city records to see what we can find

http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/01/24/article/weaver_no_plans_for_another_hotel

[beyonce245]

The motives are confirmed. Weaver/Quantance was looking to build a 45 room boutique hotel last year at the corner of North Church St and Friendly Ave according to city-council members. Yet in this article Weaver is lying about it and said he never had such plans. Why dont we do our own investigation and look in the city records to see what we can find

http://www.news-reco...r_another_hotel

Ok this is ridiculous. I don't think Weaver is lying. Here's a story from May of last year talking about uses of the Church/Friendly land. And a hotel wasn't one of them.

This stupid hotel proposal has gotten blown out of proportion, and frankly, I almost wish it would just go away because all the race baiting and accusations and fighting isn't worth it. And cityboi, you're not helping the situation when you accuse good members of the community of lying. Part of the reason I've avoided this topic so much is because I feel like it's become the laughing stock of UP.

For all the stories in the paper and on tv, this is still JUST A PROPOSAL. And cityboi, when you said you found out that it was supposed to open Jan 1, 2012, why didn't you just tell us that you read that in the HVS report, instead of making it seem like you have some kind of inside information?

How's a hotel that doesn't even have financing supposed to open in Jan. 2012 anyway?

RIDICULOUS!!!

[cityboi]

Beyonce so Skip Alston and city council members are lying when they say Weaver was planning a hotel? I think all this will be cleared up when they look into the city records and see what Weaver was up to. Even if the exact site wasnt confirmed we know they were planning to build a hotel. That has been mentioned on the local blogs for months now. In fact Weaver has a number of properties downtown. Yes there are a lot of silly things going on that have become more of a side show and the race stuff doesnt need to be a part of it. Things have gotten out of hand. People just need to calm down. There are extreme views coming from both sides. Some supporters claim racism while some against it claim there is a government conspiracy cover up on the bonds. Both claims are outragous in my view.

In regards to the hotel, some thought I was crazy and laughed at me for suggesting the hotel group was looking for a Wyndham a Westin type Hotel. You thought that was rediculous so you didnt comment. Turns out I was right and in fact two of those chains are in discussion with the hotel group right now. Also Beyonce as for the Jan 2012 date, I read that on a blog from another poster who said he had confirmation of the opening date, I didn't read it from a report so please don't make accusations that I was holding back information.

Its ashame that you feel this way about this project Beyonce. If you think its unrealistic, thats your right. But myself and many on here are going to support the project and we looking forward to seeing positive things happen in our center-city. The negative naysayer crap has to stop. Its held our city back long enough and im tired of it. If this project happens, fine. If it doesnt happen, thats fine as well, we move on. Its not the end of the world. But its not helpful to the discussion or supportive to come on here flaming and call the project rediculous and stupid.

[Beany]

Personally I think this is an interesting project to follow and talk about. Maybe it won't happen but still its fun to track.

I am not taking sides with the hotel supporters or QW but seems pretty obvious what QW's motives are. I seriously doubt they would be so interested in this deal if it were not a hotel. Threatening the city and county with lawsuits to turn over documentation seems overly harsh. Nothing wrong with asking for information but why threaten lawsuits? If QW were so convinced a hotel isn't feasible why are they even worried about it because it will never get funding without investors who believe its worth their risk. The hotel group is entitled to apply for these stimulus bonds just as much as anyone else. They have done nothing wrong by pursuing them as that is what they were for--to stimulate the economy. People can argue against stimulus bonds in general, but why single this project out as if it is some big conspiracy? I dunno, the whole thing just seems to have been blown out of proportion by folks on both sides.

[cityboi]

They didnt even have to sue the city or county. Thats all public information they can get from the city without taking such actions. One might say its a good strategy to turn public opinion against this project making people think something shady is going on. "we want transparency". Thats right out of a political play book. I dont know why people (on the local blogs) are making an issue out of Skip Alston. Hes a broker for the project so yes hes going to get money out of the deal. He is also a county commissioner, which is a board that approve the project but Skip Alston did NOT vote on it because it would have been a conflict of interest. The story should end there in regards to Skip Alston. This is all very common. We see it all the time. Robbie Perkins or any council member will abstain from voting on an issue if it benefits them.

People are now questioning Denna Hayes. She has nothing to do with the project. Someone on the blogs brought up Project Homestead and Michael King's name. That man has been dead for years. Its crazy! The craziness didnt start until Weaver and Dennis brought on this law suit. Once the records are made public, people are going to realize that there is nothing to any of these rediculous allegations. Hopefully when the smoke clears and all the racist and conspiracy nonsense from a few is out the door, we can move forward on this.

[cityboi]

News 2 article and video on the "race controversy"......."white owned hotel" vs "african-american owned hotel" we dont need this kind of divisiveness. Mike Weaver has been involved in civil rights for many years and has helped support the Civil Rights Museum. Yes he has motives but it has nothing to do with race. Weaver did recognize that the prosposed hotel is being built in a good location. Deena Hayes has not made a final decision on the march but I hope she forgets all about. It would be a real embarrasment and this silliness could lead to discrediting the whole project. While I question Weaver's business motives for requesting information, go ahead and get everything out for the public to see. I think it would be helpful for the project if more information is known about it. If people dont have information, they fill in the blanks themselves and thats how we end up with all these crazy false allegations. The Kaplan/Chrisholm group is also going to have to produce another feasibilty report that includes its mixed-use component. The last report ordered by the city didnt look good but it did not include other revenue generating portions of the project.(office/retail/restaurants). The report also didnt include the impact of the International Civil Rights Museum accross the street which is projected to attract more than 200,000 visitors the first year. Visitors are expected to come from all over the country. Its unclear how much of this project will be office and retail but Kaplan said deck that was to be built beneath the hotel will be replaced with the office and retail. That equals to about 3 or 4 floors. So we are just going to have to wait and see how this project continues to evolve because I don't think we have seen the last of changes. There is going to be some tweaking and it may end up being more of a mixed-use project to reduce the risk or the number of rooms may change again. But Kaplan and Chrisholm are committed to getting this hotel built.

http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=136351&catid=57

Here is a link to Weaver's request.

http://www.digtriad.com/news/pdf/gsopublicdocumentrequest.pdf

[cityboi]

racial protest has been called off.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/01/25/article/charges_fly_over_plan_for_hotel

[Beany]

It is 100 times more likely QW's motives are based on protecting their corner of the hotel market than anything else. At least that is the way I see it.

[luvdowntowngso]

It is regreatable that Deena Hayes choose to play the race card. Not a wise decision in a city that is already divided by race issues. If you are going to paly that card, you'd better have strong evidence to back up your claim.

Even Skip Alston says this is not a race issue. I suggest Weaver see the records (which are public record) and we move forward with the project. Otherwise this city will look like a bunch of complaining idiots.

[cityboi]

oh god, Skip Alston is bringing the race crap up again. He said he heard rumors that the mayor had a private dinner with Weaver and Quantance and promised them the hotel vote would be reconsidered. He claims racism and that some in the community are threatening a council/mayor recall election if council goes back on its vote. Alston also said that some in the community may take advantage of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton being in town for the civil rights museum opening. I'm so sick of this race crap! Furthermore Alston is the last person that needs to be bring up race since he will financially benefit from the hotel project. All parties that have financial interests regardless of which side they are on need to keep quiet. My concern is that Alston and Hayes are becoming a bullseye for this hotel project despite the fact that they have a small role in it. Alston is just the broker and Hayes is the wife of the construction company owner. If Alston keeps running his flap hes gonna turn the whole city against this hotel.

As far as reconsidering the vote, i've heard that Danny Thompson said the council will do nothing of the sort.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/01/27/article/alston_accused_of_threatening_mayor_council_members_over_hotel

[twincity]

I wish everyone would hold their hasty gripes until after Feb 1. Its killing the mood.

[cityboi]

I wish everyone would hold their hasty gripes until after Feb 1. Its killing the mood.

EXACTLY! It will be a distraction from the Civil Rights Museum opening. These distractions, which are outright silliness, are putting a bad taste in peoples mouths and the focus needs to be STRICTLY on the hotel itself. From what attorneys are saying the final approval by the The Local Government Commission will be based largly on the project getting letter of credit from a bank taking responsibility for the debt should the venture fail. According to Kaplan, the banks are willing to back this hotel project. This means despite concerns over a recent feasibilty report, the project will likely get the final nod for the bonds. However Kaplan's group is currently in the process of addressing the concerns of that feasibility report. The question is will city council approve building the deck? The city is facing a $11 million defecit and if they decide to build the deck they are going to have to figure out how to pay for it. City staff recommended using money generated from the current parking to pay for the deck along with money being generated from the hotel leasing spaces in the new deck. If council doesnt approve building a new deck, that kills the whole hotel project. But council is put in an awkward situation. They pretty much have to vote for the deck because they voted for the hotel. And if the hotel doesnt get built, the city and county will lose most of its bond money.

[cityboi]

Hotel development group needs to provide information about financial backing of the project to a county board by next week before it moves on to the state for approval. The group says the hotel chain will be revealed by the time it gets to the state.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/01/27/article/hotel_project_cant_move_forward_without_firm_financing

[cityboi]

Here is the evidence that Mike Weaver and Dennis Quaintance were not being truthful when they said they had no plans for a downtown hotel. It appears that good members of the community do lie. After looking at public records and emails, it was discovered that Dennis Quaintance sent an email to the assistant city manager which reveals some very interesting information. It looks like Dennis wanted to use the bonds for his downtown hotel ambitions but it was too late. This explains why he and Mike Weaver are in an uproar over this project. Weaver and Quaintance have both said downtown is not ready for another hotel yet they were going to build one themselves. They can't have it both ways in thier argument. Downtown is either ready for another hotel or its not. Here is the email:

Dennis Quaintance to Andy Scott

"My jaw hit the floor a couple of different times when I learned that the financial mechanisms in play were different than you explained to us. I’m not really angry about this. My guess is that it was just an honest misunderstanding. It was just what you thought was so. Yet I am disappointed in that if we’d known earlier what we know now, we probably would have gotten busy and put together our own project (smaller initial phase), three variations of which have been in the work for years. My bet is that it was just an honest misunderstanding. We probably would have had enough time if we’d started earlier. I want to explain my feelings about that and make sure that we are ‘clean.’ If we’d started back in the early winter, we’d likely be ahead of this other project now but since we sat on our hands, they have lapped us and will possibly suck a lot of the various allocations away prior to our being able to belly up. Plus, even our long-term investment idea of making sense out of a smaller project that surely wouldn’t make money for years but would be justified with the eventual expansion potential and lower basis, wouldn’t work if new inventory is added to the market. (In fairness, if this other project had stayed on Lee Street, we probably would have stayed on the sidelines because entering then might have made us look like a party pooper from the Old Asheboro Neighborhood Association’s perspective. We are sincerely respectful of their point of view.)"

source: Quaintance's Downtown Hotel Envy.

http://yesweeklyblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/quaintances-downtown-hotel-envy.html

"This makes it clear that Quaintance and fellow hotel developer Mike Weaver are envious of the proposed downtown hotel project, would have liked to have done it themselves, are concerned that Chisolm's group will corner a lot of the bond allocation, and could be contemplating submitting their own request for bond allocation if they can get the city council or the industrial authority to kill Chisholm's deal."

It would be pretty foolish for Weaver/Quaintance to fight this hotel now. A reminder of what Weaver/Quaintance said:

News & Record:

“There’s more to this than meets the eye,” said Melvin “Skip” Alston, chairman of the Guilford County Board of Commissioners and a real estate broker for the Ole Asheboro project. “The fact of the matter is they are planning on putting a hotel downtown. That is why they are fighting this.”

Not so, one of the businessmen responded.

“Oh, gosh, no,” said Mike Weaver, co-founder of Quaintance-Weaver Restaurants & Hotels. “Absolutely not.

“This is a dreadful economy. We don’t want to build a hotel anywhere. We just wouldn’t take the risk.”

[Beany]

Yep, just has been suspected. I hope all those folks who simply thought Q&W were simply looking out for the public's interest will be made aware of what was really driving their protests. Q&W have done a lot of good for Greensboro but in this instance haven't been entirely honest or fair in drumming up public criticism.