major hotel in the works for downtown Greensboro

[cityboi]

Im sure the developer will ask the city for incentives like Roy Carroll did for Center Pointe. This may happen without much city help if the stimulus federal dollars come in. But I guess some would argue that even using federal money to help a private venture is a bad idea. It could be much worse though. I just read where $800,000 of federal stimulus money was spent to keep animals off the runway on a small airport that has very little air traffic. The money was spent because a plane run over a Squirrel back in 1996.

The design of the hotel is really nice. It would be even nicer if it looked something like this

that would blend in even better with the architecture along South Elm and it would have a warehouse/loft feel too it much like the Proximity Hotel. BTW I still think that hotel should have been built downtown. The downtown setting was more fitting for it instead of being built in an office park 2 miles away. Next to the ballpark on the chevrolet service lot would have been the perfect location for the Proximity Hotel. The design could have been the same but replace the gray concrete exterior with a brown brick exterior.

The Proximity would look good at South Elm or next to the ballpark. Downtown needs a hotel like the Proximity. BTW The Proximty Hotel has been listed as one of the top 50 business hotels in the WORLD.

overlooking Wendover Ave and the Friendly Center "midrise skyline" Imagine if this hotel were looking over downtown instead

[twincity]

Changes made to the South Elm hotel proposal. Read the full story here:

http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories...8667200^1865469

[beyonce245]

Changes made to the South Elm hotel proposal. Read the full story here:

http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories...8667200^1865469

Again, I'm going to reserve judgment on this project until something, if anything, materializes. As the article says, the City will be selling this land at below market value rates, so I'm confident that something worthy of that land will be built in the near future.

I still think the chateau-esque look is wrong, but whatev.

[cityboi]

Even at 200 rooms this will still be a great project. I also wouldnt assume that rendering will be the final design. More than likely its a conceptual rendering. The first rendering of Greensboro's downtown ballpark looks nothing like the final product. Something I couldnt help but notice. This is the second time a minority developer has proposed something downtown and both times other developers and city leaders were skeptical. They didnt seem as skeptical when other similar projects were proposed by white developers. If they were critical, they werent as vocal about it. I disagree with the notion in the article that building a project like this near neighborhoods with public housing is a bad idea. This has already been done before. All you have to do is look at Southside where there are $500,000 townhomes and an upscale wine cafe less than a mile away from questionable areas. As a matter of fact a well known local tv weatherman lives in one of the townhomes and another weatherman lives at CityView apartments in Southside. If the goal is to redevelop these areas, developers shouldn't run away from them. In any case I think Southside, which borders the land will help solidify the project.

[RALNATIVE]

This sounds like deja vu (i.e. Triumph Center). I think that those who are being skeptical are being so for good reason. I don't think that it has anything to do with the race of the developer, but moreso with their lack of understanding of demographics and track record in delivering large developments. If you read the article, their dealings in Memphis sound almost like a scam.

None of the mentioned proposals make sense from an economic perspective. If revitalization is what Greensboro has in mind, building luxury hotels and towers is not the answer. They should focus on providing incentives to developers who will build affordable but upscale housing and recruiting companies to bring their higher paying jobs downtown. That is how a revitalization begins...not by building European style luxury hotels in questionable neighborhoods.

The City of Greensboro really does need to stop entertaining these pie-in-the-sky proposals. It hurts the city's image everytime they fail to materialize.

[sean]

i bit my tongue when i heard 300 rooms... there just isn't market support for that size. for example grandover isn't even 300 rooms and it has a golf course, large capacity for events, and interstate highway frontage... and yet it most often has lots of empty rooms on prime weekends.

give these developers some time to work out a viable project; they appear to be sharp and capable.

if you really want this to succeed, you might not want to not hamper their efforts with armchair speculation. if the developers spend all their time refuting misinformation and clarifying blogosphere speculation, they'll be unable to convey a coherent and compelling business plan. see greensboro triumph center.

[beyonce245]

The City of Greensboro really does need to stop entertaining these pie-in-the-sky proposals. It hurts the city's image everytime they fail to materialize.

They're right. Let's follow Raleigh's lead and building another surface parking lot.

[cityboi]

This sounds like deja vu (i.e. Triumph Center). I think that those who are being skeptical are being so for good reason. I don't think that it has anything to do with the race of the developer, but moreso with their lack of understanding of demographics and track record in delivering large developments. If you read the article, their dealings in Memphis sound almost like a scam.

None of the mentioned proposals make sense from an economic perspective. If revitalization is what Greensboro has in mind, building luxury hotels and towers is not the answer. They should focus on providing incentives to developers who will build affordable but upscale housing and recruiting companies to bring their higher paying jobs downtown. That is how a revitalization begins...not by building European style luxury hotels in questionable neighborhoods.

The City of Greensboro really does need to stop entertaining these pie-in-the-sky proposals. It hurts the city's image everytime they fail to materialize.

I didnt know building a 200 room hotel was pie in the sky. This project is nothing like the Greensboro Triumph Center. The only comparison is that both developers are black. Triumph Center was suspose to be sort of a Las Vegas/Disney stlye entertainment complex with hotels and a convention center. we are only talking about a 200 room hotel at Lee and Elm not a half a billion dollar "mystery project". This hotel project isnt pie in the sky especially since the rooms have been reduced from 300 to 200. But I dont think its impossible for Greensboro to support a 300 room hotel because people forget that the largest hotel between Atlanta and Washington DC has 1,014 hotel rooms and its in Greensboro. But I think this project is even more realistic project since federal dollars and other tax credits will help the project along, something other developers could not get for their downtown hotel proposals. If they could get such help, we'd have an 8-story Hampton Inn on the corner of Greene and McGee Streets today.

"That is how a revitalization begins...not by building European style luxury hotels in questionable neighborhoods."

We have French New Orleans Style upscale establishments downtown on the edge of "questionable neighborhoods". What if the developer of Southside listened to the skeptics? If he did Southside would still be a rundown neighborhood of crime and prostitution instead of an upscale neighborhood that has received a number of national awards and has become a model for infill development. Remember at one time Southside was no differnt from these "questionable areas" that you are refering to. So if Southside can be transformed, so can South Elm/Lee. Im sure the skeptics of Southside thought white upper middle to upper class would never move to this neighborhood and live on a street called Martin Luther King Jr Dr. I'm sure the skeptics thought who in their right mind would build half a milion dollar townhomes just blocks away from "questionable areas". Yet it happened and they are owned by many white middle to upper class residents. Who would have thought 10 years ago that Greensboro's downtown nightlife would be at the level that it is at today. One thing I've learned is that things can happen in Greensboro if there is a will and strong support behind it. In reagrds to this hotel project, If the developer cant secure the federal redevelopment stimulus money, the project will likely die. The stimulus money is the difference in this project and other downtown hotel projects that have failed.

[RALNATIVE]

This hotel project isnt pie in the sky especially since the rooms have been reduced from 300 to 200.

What does that prove?

What's more telling is the fact that they're already making changes to their "plans" even before submitting a proposal to the city council and making any kind of formal announcement.

In terms of comparisions, let's see:

1) Both developers have connections with Greensboro and seemingly want to deliver something ground-breaking to GSO.

2) Both developrs have had some questionable business dealings in other cities.

3) Both developers leaked their "plans" of a proposal to the media and others before any land deals were reached. Saying that something will be located at S. Elm St. is not the same as having land under contract and being ready to break ground.

There are so many similarities that make both of these proposals questionable.

[cityboi]

What does that prove?

What's more telling is the fact that they're already making changes to their "plans" even before submitting a proposal to the city council and making any kind of formal announcement.

In terms of comparisions, let's see:

1) Both developers have connections with Greensboro and seemingly want to deliver something ground-breaking to GSO.

2) Both developrs have had some questionable business dealings in other cities.

3) Both developers leaked their "plans" of a proposal to the media and others before any land deals were reached. Saying that something will be located at S. Elm St. is not the same as having land under contract and being ready to break ground.

There are so many similarities that make both of these proposals questionable.

While a 200 room hotel will help downtown redevelopment its hardly ground breaking. A downtown hotel isnt a new concept for Greensboro.

I can also think of a number of projects that have been leaked before land was under contract and have been built. CityView Apartments and the ballpark are just two examples. BTW many thought the ballpark project to be "pie in the sky"

[beyonce245]

What's more telling is the fact that they're already making changes to their "plans" even before submitting a proposal to the city council and making any kind of formal announcement.

The articles said, in part, "Chisholm says she just received a market analysis of downtown Greensboro from Interim Hospitality Consultants of Tallahassee, Fla., which has her

[RALNATIVE]

The articles said, in part, "Chisholm says she just received a market analysis of downtown Greensboro from Interim Hospitality Consultants of Tallahassee, Fla., which has her "redefining" her eventual proposal."

Whether this project moves forward or not, isn't this the kind of smart decision-making we should welcome? The developer is making practical modifications to suit the needs and market feasibility of the area.

The plan may be grand and Chisholm doesn't have any experience with hotels, which is why I remain skeptical. But being proactive and changing plans to meet thresholds of what the area can support is certainly not "pie in the sky."

It's good business.

A market analysis is one thing, a feasibility study takes it to another level. In any event, they both need to occur before making any plans and leaking them to the media.

That is what you call good business sense.

This is why many veteran developers are skeptical about these projects.

[beyonce245]

A market analysis is one thing, a feasibility study takes it to another level. In any event, they both need to occur before making any plans and leaking them to the media.

That is what you call good business sense.

This is why many veteran developers are skeptical about these projects.

Don't be shy. Tell us what multimillion dollar development you've spearheaded recently. I'm being serious, if you have some expert knowledge in this field, then share it so the rest of us can have a better understanding of your opinion.

[cityboi]

A market analysis is one thing, a feasibility study takes it to another level. In any event, they both need to occur before making any plans and leaking them to the media.

That is what you call good business sense.

This is why many veteran developers are skeptical about these projects.

like veteran Roy Carroll who leaked his plans and visionary rendering for a 30-story tower next to Center Pointe and his mid-rise to high-rise dreams for land across the street from the ballpark on Eugene?

[RALNATIVE]

like veteran Roy Carroll who leaked his plans and visionary rendering for a 30-story tower next to Center Pointe and his mid-rise to high-rise dreams for land across the street from the ballpark on Eugene?

From what I understand, he wasn't the one who leaked those plans...some over zealous, news hungry people did.

Honestly, from the responses and reactions that i'm seeing here, no wonder developers such as these seem to constantly target Greensboro for their ideas.

[beyonce245]

From what I understand, he wasn't the one who leaked those plans...some over zealous, news hungry people did.

Honestly, from the responses and reactions that i'm seeing here, no wonder developers such as these seem to constantly target Greensboro for their ideas.

You can read through the previous comments and notice that I have, through several posts now, reiterated my skepticism of this project. That's why I continue to neither embrace nor reject the proposal. For one, the city hasn't even issued an RFP for this land so anything said or done until developers present their proposals is pure speculation.

This land needs to be handled properly, and needs to be used for a purpose that will have positive benefits, not only downtown but other surrounding areas as well.

My problem with your comments is that you seem to only be here to stir up the pot. You've made your point. You're skeptical and have doubts. We get it. SO MOVE ON. I can't speak for anyone else. But I, for one, don't appreciate your painting the people of Greensboro as gullible and suckers for entertaining proposals to further revitalize downtown.

[krazeeboi]

While I believe that the downtown hotel market seems to be underserved and that downtown could probably use another hotel, it is pretty surprising to see such grand plans revealed before any studies or analyses were done to see if the downtown market could support this project in its original form. Personally, I think that a luxury/boutique hotel with around 100 rooms would be more feasible, but I'm not a hotel developer.

[cityboi]

It really boils down to the kind of hotel this is going to be. There are different kinds of hotels. Grandover is a resort hotel. The Sheraton Four Seasons is a convention hotel. The hotel in this proposal is a "luxury business" hotel. There are very few business hotels over 100 rooms in Greensboro. The Proximity is really the only big luxury business hotel in Greensboro which may explain why its owner is being vocal and skeptic about this project. Clearly he wouldnt want the competition. But the business hotel market is under served, particularly downtown. It was mentioned that no feasibilty studies have been done yet. How do we know that? I think the reduction of the number of rooms shows that some studies are being done in regards to what this location can support. The developer threw the general concept out there and is now adjusting that concept to what the market can support. I have no doubt this project can happen. But yes i understand the skeptisim because a few hotels have already been proposed for downtown and those plans fell through. So I can understand the mentality of I'll believe it when I see it.

[Beany]

I have to say I am skeptical of this one myself. Hard for me to see a 200 room luxury hotel at that location at this time. If this were proposed on North Elm or maybe around the ballpark I could see it. Even then I am not sure about 200 rooms. If this were a 100 room Hampton Inn at that location I could see it more. If there was something on that side of Lee Street I could see it more. To me this would make more sense if the redevelopment of that area was futher along. Then the hotel would not be stuck on that side of Lee with just it and a school administrative building.

I would think a more modestly priced 100 room hotel there would make the most sense. It would still help to catalyze the redevelopment of that area while standing a better chance at success.

I am afraid that there seems to be a push to redevelop this area with whatever they can get. I know they say that developments will have to fit in with the overall plan but I just don't see how the school admin building as illustrated fits in at all with the redevelopment plans I have seen. I am afraid the school building and a 200 room mid rise hotel could become block killers. You already have an old building and parking lot at the northwest corner of Elm and Lee creating a block killer. If you have something similar going on at the southwest and southeast corners you will effectively cut off the redevelopment area from the rest of downtown. Pedestrian wise there will not be a flow. I think it is very important that what gets built at the southwest and southeast corners are not set back from the corners. The pedestrian flow needs to continue as much as possible from the other side of Lee. I just bring this up because the school building illustration as well as the hotel illustration both look like they would be setback from the streets.

[basket1058]

I wish Greensboro the best in this endeavor but it I do wonder what kind of niche the new hotel can exploit? Quaintance-Weaver already has two fine luxury hotels in the O. Henry Hotel and the Proximity Hotel, the latter of which is still a very new, cutting edge establishment. Not to mention that both hotels are within a short drive of downtown too. Of course Grandover has a nice golf course and good frontage on the interstate. After the Triumph Center saga I hope the city and the developers take their time and do their homework to insure that they have a quality product that is competitive with the other resort properties in the city. Both Winston and Greensboro have seen their fair share of projects fall through so it best to reserve one;s expectation till a more final proposal is put forth to the city council.

I'm crossing my fingers though!!

[cityboi]

One thing that could kill the whole project is if the city can't get federal money for the school administration building. For some reason Bridget Chisholm needs the school administration project to happen first. If she cant get federal stimulus money for her hotel project then it dies as well. I'm not sure why some think she is not serious about her proposal though. As far as a luxury hotel being put at this location, I think its realistic when you consider that there are other luxury developments nearby (Southside). If Southside had not happened I would have serious doubts about this hotel project, But when you have luxury lofts and condos that almost front Lee Street (the questionable area), I think a luxury hotel can be possible as well. I use Southside as a barometer for what can happen in the area. Also more and more restaurants are opening on Elm Street closer to Lee Street. I personally think the South Elm/Lee Street development should become an extension of Southside. One great thing about this hotel project is that it would likely help speed up streetscape improvements along Lee Street/High Point Rd between downtown and the Koury Convention Center. There may be enough federal stimulus money to do it.

[RALNATIVE]

It sounds like she is applying for federal stimulus funds for the school administration bldg, and is using that to justify, and potentially fund the construction of the hotel in conjunction with that. I don't think that building luxury hotels is what the government had in mind for use of our federal stimulus dollars.

[beyonce245]

It sounds like she is applying for federal stimulus funds for the school administration bldg, and is using that to justify, and potentially fund the construction of the hotel in conjunction with that. I don't think that building luxury hotels is what the government had in mind for use of our federal stimulus dollars.

Chisholm has nothing to do with the school administration building. That project is being headed up by Gate City Co. and the Community Foundation of Greensboro.

[RALNATIVE]

Chisholm has nothing to do with the school administration building. That project is being headed up by Gate City Co. and the Community Foundation of Greensboro.

Then why the connection and dependence on the school administration project? These don't seem logically connected.

[beyonce245]

Then why the connection and dependence on the school administration project? These don't seem logically connected.

From a N&R article earlier in July: "Although Memphis, Tenn. consultant Bridget Chisholm had also planned to go on the trip, the delegation was not going to discuss her proposal