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Justin6882

Raleigh's Decline is Durham's Big Chance?

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So I ran across this this morning - it's not meant to stir any Raleigh vs. Durham arguments, but I was wondering if other people feel the same way. His main two arguments are that Glenwood Avenue needs repaving and that Wake County schools should stop busing.

I know I have my own thoughts about this, but what do you guys think?

Metro Mag Article

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Well, for one it sounds like his chance to rail against Wake's diversity policy at the schools. As far as roads, I'm pretty sure I see just as many potholes in Durham as I do in Raleigh.

I never want to pit one against the other...they are different in many ways. And as a region, when one side fares well, usually the other does too.

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This article is based on the false premise that Raleigh or Durham need the other to lose for one of them to win. There are a lot of good things going on in both places, in both the public and private realms. American Tobacco in Durham, RBC Plaza in Raleigh, Fayetteville Street in Raleigh, DPAC in Durham. Paving Glenwood isn't going to change the trajectory of any of these items.

If you read Bernie Reeves' collection of columns, you'll find a pretty well-developed agenda. I don't think it's one that most of the interested parties on this discussion board would embrace.

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While I think his discussion about school bussing was rather unconvincing, there probably is a broader point to be made about Wake County Schools and its further decline as a result of rapid population increase. So many people have moved to Wake in recent years that the school system doesn't have enough space to properly house all the students. And even if new schools building sped up, the system would still probably be a few steps behind the continued population migration into the county.

As far as roads go, I wholeheartedly disagree. Raleigh certainly has worse traffic congestion and may end up strangling itself with gridlock, but Durham's city roads are by far much much worse. I often wonder what the public works and Dept. of transportation do all day, because they certainly aren't fixing the freaking roads.

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1. The Raleigh vs. Durham "rivalry" is dreamed up in the minds of a few people who like to view the world in terms of combat. Most Raleighites I know love Durham and wish only the best for it, and vice versa. Only Bernie Reeves would compare us to Athens and Sparta! Weeping Jeesiz!

2. This article bears no relation to reality. Bernie Reeves just now happens to have his panties in a wad about potholes on Glenwood Ave. and Wake County's diversity policy. He is trying to scare Raleighites into doing his bidding by raising the specter of "Raleigh will lose to Durham unless you do what I say." Oh My God, we can't Durham beat us! Do whatever Bernie says!

3. The business community in Wake County understands that Wake County's diversity policy has ensured that all of Wake's schools remain healthy, and this is good for business as well as good for our children.

4. Wake County's policy is legal because it is not based on race, but on socio-economics, as manifested in income.

5. The IMPLEMENTATION of the diversity policy has in some cases been boneheaded, but the policy itself has been one of the reasons that Wake County's schools are such a success, and the envy of other school systems across the country. Our schools are one of the reasons we remain at the top of the "best of" lists, and are so attractive to business.

6. Many on the far right have a visceral hatred for public schools; they consider them socialist, and want to see them fail, so that there will be a public clamor for government vouchers for kids to attend private or religious schools. This would benefit the wealthy and religious fundamentalists, but would cause grievous harm to middle class and poor families.

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So I ran across this this morning - it's not meant to stir any Raleigh vs. Durham arguments, but I was wondering if other people feel the same way. His main two arguments are that Glenwood Avenue needs repaving and that Wake County schools should stop busing.

I know I have my own thoughts about this, but what do you guys think?

Metro Mag Article

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My English teachers over the years would all have failed this paper. There is simply a weak, if any, connection between the discussion and the conclusion. Based on my last trip to Durham, DOT maintained roads suck equally well there. I-85 is shiny and new, but so is I-540. I believe "funk" on Hargett Street equals Durham....Cc's, Legends, Father and Sons, 2 T's, Holly Aiken, Times (X 2)....

The 1)pave my favorite road and 2) stop busing = 3) or else lose out to Durham (gasp!) is just silly....

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Reeves says:

"Glenwood Avenue, the old Highway 70 that runs right through downtown

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Reeves says:

"Glenwood Avenue, the old Highway 70 that runs right through downtown

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Personally, I think the decline of any city in the region would hurt all the others. We really should be running a merged governmental system between all the cities and counties in the Triangle to coordinate things better, and prevent any municipality from slipping due to their planners' intentional negligence.

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To me articles like this try to promote a form of sibling rivalry but to be honest I don't think that either Raleigh or Durham would be the places they are today without the influence of the other (poor Chapel Hill always seems to be left out of the picture since their population has been stuck around 50k for years). I personally love the fact that while I live in Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill are close enough by so if I wanna get out of my little Raleigh funk I can just head over to another city for the day. I think most locals appreciate the diversity between the 3 core cities of the Triangle and realize when something good happens in 1 of the cities it tends to benefit the entire region...

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Bernie is a blowhard. I wouldn't hold your breath on his predictions.

Any Durham success has to start with the schools.

Until Durham public schools improve dramatically, I don't think you'll see young families rushing to move to Durham. In 2000 in the Woodcroft/Woodlake South Durham area, it was like a scene from "Logan's Run" with no/few kids of elementary school age and absolutely none of high school age (zoned for Hillside). Many families leave(bolt) Durham for Raleigh/Apex/Cary when their kids hit kindergarten age for better schools.

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Bernie is a blowhard. I wouldn't hold your breath on his predictions.

Any Durham success has to start with the schools.

Until Durham public schools improve dramatically, I don't think you'll see young families rushing to move to Durham. In 2000 in the Woodcroft/Woodlake South Durham area, it was like a scene from "Logan's Run" with no/few kids of elementary school age and absolutely none of high school age (zoned for Hillside). Many families leave(bolt) Durham for Raleigh/Apex/Cary when their kids hit kindergarten age for better schools.

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The "problem" with Glenwood in that section is that the asphalt deteriorates from the old concrete/pebble base. Residents nearby complaned that the concrete was too hard/loud/ugly, so they covered it all with asphalt. They got luck that it didn't have the problems I-40 in Durham had recently, but over the years the quick pothole repairs have become worse, and cracks from the concrete layer's joint are starting to widen.

The same problem has dogged New Bern Ave east of Tarboro Road for years, but that is too far from Metro Magazine's office (if it is still there?) on Oberlin near Wade.

As for repair issues, Glenwood is a *state* road, and NC DOT now wants to keep repairs in house, as opposed to reimbursing local muncipalities (City of Raleigh). So Raleigh can't even repave Glenwood if it wanted to (and expect to be paid for it by NC DOT). Five Points is always bad because there large, heavy vehicles going through the intersection in several different directions, which stresses the road surface. It is a little bumpy, but the pot holes are relatively small and the road bed has not been reduced to rubble. There are good and bad roads in Durham as well.

Mr. Brown covered the education "argument" better than I ever could. I can't belive there are people who vote for representatives who are out to dismantle the gains the area, has made.

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As for repair issues, Glenwood is a *state* road, and NC DOT now wants to keep repairs in house, as opposed to reimbursing local muncipalities (City of Raleigh). So Raleigh can't even repave Glenwood if it wanted to (and expect to be paid for it by NC DOT). Five Points is always bad because there large, heavy vehicles going through the intersection in several different directions, which stresses the road surface. It is a little bumpy, but the pot holes are relatively small and the road bed has not been reduced to rubble. There are good and bad roads in Durham as well.

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That section of Glenwood was repaved in 1987, and I don't think it has been since, if I'm not mistaken. Meanwhile the State is inexplicably resurfacing I-440 East now from Lake Boone to at least Ridge Rd.

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