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14 minutes ago, ah59396 said:

Kinda disappointed over the lack of excitement over this announcement.  Sure, insurance jobs in University aren't as flashy as Google bringing it's HQ to Uptown, but that's a hell of a lot of jobs that pay middle class + wages.  That's the type of economic development the city needs.

Plus, companies located in university city have great internship programs for students.  It's a huge win for Charlotte and provides locals with plenty of opportunities 

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I'm very excited about it.  I do hope they build something that is visible from 85.  I just feel like driving through University City is kinda dull and bland, not a lot is visible from the interstate so most people passing though don't realize how big University City actually is.  Now i'm not saying they should cut down all the trees by the interstate to give visibility, I love all the trees, but maybe build something with a little height to peak about the tree canopy would be nice. 

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This new Allstate regional HQ would need about 350-400K sq ft of office space maybe more. I am not sure they will go to Innovation Park unless they build. They dont have that kind of space vacant especially since AXA is expanding there already. One building that has 360,000 sq ft is 300 South Brevard building that is being renovated uptown (the old AT&T) but not sure if they would do that as it does not allow room to grow even further. They will probably need to build somewhere.  University Research Park is a good option for one place. Business Journal is stating location not chosen yet https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/08/09/allstate-to-bring-2-250-jobs-to-charlotte-over-3.html?ana=e_clt_bn&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1502300684&j=78672281     

I think this is a great addition to Charlotte and solidifies us a huge insurance hub Met Life, Brighthouse, AXA and now even bigger Allstate. Which sells investments and other financial products like TIAA. All adds to  our FIRE employment category Finance Insurance Real Estate. 

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To put things in perspective, this is more than 5 times the jobs and payroll impact as Paypal. Paypal interestingly hasn't announced where the operations center will be that will replace the Charlotte office plans that were canceled 16 months ago. My guess is they may be scrapping an expansion to any new location though as they have been laying off people in Chandler, AZ and Omaha recently and can backfill those offices with any organic growth.

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Allstate expansion and who we beat out in these stories. BIG metro areas around the country. From the Chicago Sun Times http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/allstate-plans-big-expansion-in-north-carolina/ and from Fox Business http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/08/09/allstate-to-create-2250-jobs-with-north-carolina-expansion.html   

I follow economic development around the country and let me tell you you don't see many 2000 plus job expansions for office locations very often. State Farm did something like this even bigger in Phoenix, Atlanta and Dallas a few years back. Toyota did this with Dallas when they moved from SoCal. I believe there is more to come in NC and Charlotte's future this year.   

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13 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

The legislature needs to stop this madness with some new discriminatory laws!

Does anyone know if there is a central clearing house to look up how much tax relief every deal gets?

Chicago Sun Times link above "The expansion comes with potentially up to $23 million in local and state incentives. The company must meet job-creation, wage and investment requirements to receive the largest chunk of the incentives."

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19 minutes ago, Scribe said:

What are you talking about?

Remember when there was a certain law that slowed down companies moving here per the chamber?? 

15 minutes ago, SouthEndCLT811 said:

Chicago Sun Times link above "The expansion comes with potentially up to $23 million in local and state incentives. The company must meet job-creation, wage and investment requirements to receive the largest chunk of the incentives."

Thanks for that but there is no central database of incentives given in the last 5 years let's say?

I found this really old article that appears to make it nearly impossible to piece together:

http://www.robinsonbradshaw.com/newsroom-publications-Still-in-Business--State-and-Local-Governments-Continue-to-Fund-Company-Expansion-and-Relocation-12-08-2009.html

You would think the state would have to report this somewhere though.

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2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Allstate expansion and who we beat out in these stories. BIG metro areas around the country. From the Chicago Sun Times http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/allstate-plans-big-expansion-in-north-carolina/ and from Fox Business http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/08/09/allstate-to-create-2250-jobs-with-north-carolina-expansion.html   

I follow economic development around the country and let me tell you you don't see many 2000 plus job expansions for office locations very often. State Farm did something like this even bigger in Phoenix, Atlanta and Dallas a few years back. Toyota did this with Dallas when they moved from SoCal. I believe there is more to come in NC and Charlotte's future this year.   

Toyota & Boeing were disappointing to be passed on 

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15 hours ago, elrodvt said:

You would think the state would have to report this somewhere though.

No central database of incentives exists. Incentives are really tricky to keep track of (and value) due to job creation contingencies, expansions generating follow up incentives, localities providing in-kind stuff like infrastructure and land and finannly, putting a $ value on state-provided worker training is nearly impossible.

I am up to my elbows in this stuff with a project looking at ROI on incentives for Southern auto plants, I hope to have some results in a couple months....

Edited by kermit
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From the Observer:

"Harty said the company is still looking at various sites in Charlotte to locate the new jobs, but the company could build at its current operations center at Innovation Park, the University City office complex."

Maybe, just maybe, Allstate could lease part of another tower. 
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1 hour ago, elrodvt said:

Go ahead. It was meant to be funny but it does seem like things have started moving after that fiasco (no matter your views).

yet I still have someone harrassing me on twitter like that legislation was NBD.

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11 hours ago, CLT704 said:

From the Observer:

"Harty said the company is still looking at various sites in Charlotte to locate the new jobs, but the company could build at its current operations center at Innovation Park, the University City office complex."

Maybe, just maybe, Allstate could lease part of another tower. 

 

Or locate in Ballantyne & University. Gives plenty of geographical reach to draw employees from 

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1 hour ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

 

Or locate in Ballantyne & University. Gives plenty of geographical reach to draw employees from 

One University office please......says the man who lives in South Charlotte and would like to put fewer cars on the road and more asses on the Blue Line.

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15 hours ago, elrodvt said:

The legislature needs to stop this madness with some new discriminatory laws!

Does anyone know if there is a central clearing house to look up how much tax relief every deal gets?

As a small business owner, I know the burden and expectations of an employer with 2,500 employees are significantly higher than one of 100 or 10.  Of course, I'd love to live in a utopia where no incentives are used or needed, but that's just not realistic.  If it is $23 million for 2,500 jobs, that comes out to $9,200 per job or If looked at over 10 years just $920 a year or $76 a month.  

For this, you're going to get a major employer in the region.  This means a major tenant in the real estate market.  A major sponsor for events, both for and not for profit.  A major purchaser of services.   It's a wave and wake of positive when this happens as there is an economy of scale with these things and the sum of 2,500 is worth so much more than the parts.  

That said if NC wants to offer $9,200 per employee to small businesses but with a similar expectation to contributing the economy in all parts and in scale I would be for that as a tax payer but not as an employer.  I would pass on that opportunity.  

 

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Some context on the Allstate incentives of $9,200 per job:

the Apple server farm in Maiden recieved $321 million in return for the promise of 50 jobs. This was more than $6.4 million per job

Allstate was a bargan.

Edited by kermit
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14 minutes ago, kermit said:

Some context on the Allstate incentives of $9,200 per job:

the Apple server farm in Maiden recieved $321 million in return for the promise of 50 jobs. This was more than $6.4 million per job

Allstate was a bargan.

 

A good read on the counter to the Apple project from a different perspective than $321 million per job.  

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2016/10/11/6-4m-a-job-for-apple-in-maiden-new-data-center.html

Sometimes people forget that a tax credit of 95% is still 5% you didn't have before.  Especially when the same company has invested $4 billion in the region.  There is a wake of positive from $4 billion.  

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/01/18/new-apple-investment-in-catawba-county-could.html

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There are lots of other perspectives. First this article is assuming another state was willing to be blackmailed for even more $ which is unknowable - did we get the best deal possible. Secondly it does not take into account the strain it puts on communities infrastructure which local taxes don't do enough to recoup. You can spin each individual project like the Apple one is above. But in total have subsidies been good or bad? From both a state and a country perspective.

I'm looking forward to kermit's paper on auto subsidies. If I felt competent I would like to research the impact these deals, and low business taxes in general, (again trying to compete against Alabama or whatever)  have on NC's low level of services and high personal taxes on the poor and retirees.

Allstate does seem like a good deal - assuming we're seeing the entire picture. Since we have money to dole out I personally would allocate it only to companies based in NC and with employee counts under 1000 or something.

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Mr Chung head of NC Economic Development Partnership said in a interview with the Charlotte Business Journal this :

"When asked by the Charlotte Business Journal about inbound corporate activity since the repeal of House Bill 2 earlier this year, Chung said activity is at an all-time high.

"It's been consistently busy through the first half of ‘17," he said, adding the EDPNC has about 280 active projects with companies the organization is trying to recruit from out of state as well as those already in North Carolina that are expanding. "(The Allstate announcement) is a nice one to get off the books, of course, but we still have quite a few behind that one that we’re hopeful on."

Chung said a variety of industries, including manufacturing and financial services, are part of the mix, and that the Charlotte region is on the list for a number of projects."

Plus we are in the mix for the Toyota Mazda plant in one of 4 megasites with the Greensboro site probably the best option. To explore those https://edpnc.com/megasites/  None really in the Charlotte area but it would be fantastic for the state as a whole. I personally think it is NC's time and we have the sites, lots of auto suppliers in NC and around us in SC and TN and we never had all our sites ready like we have now. 

Here is the article I think it is subscriber only https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/08/11/now-both-carolinas-in-running-for-1-6b-electric.html

 

 

Edited by KJHburg
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