The Good News Report

[Scribe]

I think Amazon would be amazing for Charlotte - to diversify the economy here.

[CLT704]

 

 

Edited September 7, 2017 by CLT704

[mad_park]

Isn't the Eastland Mall site about 80 acres? City could just give that to them if they'd bring 50,000 jobs averaging $100k/year.

[EllAyyDub]

Give them Eastway Park.. Right next to light rail stop and could really bridge the gap between uptown/noda and university area.

Also give them absurd incentives.  Whatever it takes will be worth it in the long run.

[Richhamleigh, DC]

...if only the light rail went from Uptown, UNCC, etc. to the airport....

[KJHburg]

This last paragraph in Biz Journal article about Amazon HQ2 is interesting. this would be the 4th such facility in the Charlotte area. 500K on Old Dowd Rd.   202K in Concord Airpark, 1 Million sq ft in new Kannapolis project and this below. There was a building marketed at 159,000 sq ft and now is not being marketed. This must be the one and if anyone can confirm that would give Amazon about almost 2 million sq ft in the Charlotte area all warehouses of course. 

Commercial real estate sources previously told the Charlotte Business Journalthat Amazon had also recently signed a smaller deal at Wilkinson Commerce Center. Amazon also has air-cargo service at Charlotte Douglas International Airport.

[nowensone]

My immediate short list upon hearing this on NPR earlier was Austin, then Atlanta.  Metro size + Tech community + required amenities + COLA + Political stature.  Of course CLT is worth considering but we have a few unfortunate impediments - a self-defeating legislature, a still too recent HB1 debacle (doubt that will soon be forgotten by a Seattleite), and the fact that the North Extension is delayed until next year, meaning the appearance of massive amounts of dirt and shovels, in NODA in particular, is also delayed.  Given a visit that might have been the subtle edge.  The thing I noted that they said is that Proposals had a six week deadline, and that was it, and that incentives would be a big component of their decision.  Holding a huge breath but the state has stumbled ineptly several times of late and does not inspire confidence.  RTP would be interesting, and possibly a better cultural fit, but seems too small, even though supposedly Amazon explicitly said that the metro population must be greater than 1 million.

We would need the likes of Hugh McColl on this one.

[Desert Power]

3 hours ago, nowensone said:

My immediate short list upon hearing this on NPR earlier was Austin, then Atlanta.  Metro size + Tech community + required amenities + COLA + Political stature.  Of course CLT is worth considering but we have a few unfortunate impediments - a self-defeating legislature, a still too recent HB1 debacle (doubt that will soon be forgotten by a Seattleite), and the fact that the North Extension is delayed until next year, meaning the appearance of massive amounts of dirt and shovels, in NODA in particular, is also delayed.  Given a visit that might have been the subtle edge.  The thing I noted that they said is that Proposals had a six week deadline, and that was it, and that incentives would be a big component of their decision.  Holding a huge breath but the state has stumbled ineptly several times of late and does not inspire confidence.  RTP would be interesting, and possibly a better cultural fit, but seems too small, even though supposedly Amazon explicitly said that the metro population must be greater than 1 million.

We would need the likes of Hugh McColl on this one.

Seems like a long shot.  If they are looking to locate tech jobs here as opposed to other functions, I really can't see it.

[RiverwoodCLT]

The only east coast city that beats Charlotte on an airport is Atlanta.

From what I have read, they want a large airport near by.

[kermit]

The day after the amazon announcement there has been  significant regret expressed in the press  (see todays Detroit Free Press as an example)  that dragging feet on transit investment has taken many cities out of the running for Amazon. IMO RTP has totally f'ed its prospects due to its transit intransigence.

Charlotte needs to read those tea leaves too, more transit sooner will pay substantial economic  dividends. Handwringing about weather we need it or the best way to pay for it will have tangible costs to the community.

http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/columnists/nancy-kaffer/2017/09/07/amazon-hq/643358001/

Edited September 8, 2017 by kermit

[Scribe]

I am going to have to agree with you @kermit. But we need more then just dreamers with grand visions (eg. Lewis) we need people who can execute well!

1 hour ago, kermit said:

The day after the amazon announcement there has been  significant regret expressed in the press  (see todays Detroit Free Press as an example)  that dragging feet on transit investment has taken many cities out of the running for Amazon. RTP has totally f'ed its prospects due to its transit intransigence.

Charlotte needs to read those tea leaves too, more transit sooner will pay substantial economic  dividends. Handwringing about weather we need it or the best way to pay for it will have tangible costs to the community.

http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/columnists/nancy-kaffer/2017/09/07/amazon-hq/643358001/

[deleted]

I'm uncharacteristically optimistic that Charlotte could be desirable to Amazon.  I think we have everything they appear to be looking for (educated workforce, growing but not highly competitive tech sector, international airport, good geographic location, excellent business climate, good weather, etc.).  The River District would appear to be a compelling location.  They could literally design it to their specifications.  Immediately adjacent to the airport.  The city/state would need to commit to running light rail there in the near future.  I'm not suggesting it's likely, just that I expect that Charlotte would be on a top 10 list of locations under consideration.  Biggest concern is the NCGA and their past and future shenanigans.  

I assume that Amazon would completely transform this city.  Hell, if they move to the River District, I'd support renaming the Catawba (not a serious comment)...

For the sake of my children and my adopted hometown, I really hope Charlotte takes a serious shot at this.

[DMann]

8 minutes ago, JBS said:

I'm uncharacteristically optimistic that Charlotte could be desirable to Amazon.  I think we have everything they appear to be looking for (educated workforce, growing but not highly competitive tech sector, international airport, good geographic location, excellent business climate, good weather, etc.).  The River District would appear to be a compelling location.  They could literally design it to their specifications.  Immediately adjacent to the airport.  The city/state would need to commit to running light rail there in the near future.  I'm not suggesting it's likely, just that I expect that Charlotte would be on a top 10 list of locations under consideration.  Biggest concern is the NCGA and their past and future shenanigans.  

I assume that Amazon would completely transform this city.  Hell, if they move to the River District, I'd support renaming the Catawba (not a serious comment)...

For the sake of my children and my adopted hometown, I really hope Charlotte takes a serious shot at this.

I think Levineville would be the perfect spot.  Plenty of space for a campus, plus on the LYNX going to UNCC.  Microsoft also has their 2nd largest campus here.  

That said, its anyones guess where they go.

[KJHburg]

I would say top cities and I do think all will be in the EST time zone since it is easier to operate in Europe as Amazon does from the east coast. So my cities in not in any order would be Atlanta, Charlotte, DC and Northern VA  maybe Boston.That is why I would not include a Chicago or Nashville or Austin.    But NYC is too expensive and some are reluctant to move there for cost of living.  I think any city without light or heavy  rail not on the ground now will be eliminated. Sorry Raleigh and Nashville.   NC personal and corporate taxes are the lowest in the country of the states that charge them.   Remember we were #2 for Toyota NA HQ relocation but lack of flights to Asia hurt us. 

 If I would have to pick one city it would be Atlanta and the nod would be over Charlotte: Georgia Tech.  If NC State and Duke were both here in the local area we would be slam duck. 

Should be fun to watch but lets not lose the prize of expanding our diversity of employers here we have already. I still would rather take lots of Sealed Airs and Allstate expansions. Plus who knows I would be happy with Ally Bank moving their HQ here as it is the de facto HQ now anyway. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2017/09/08/at-amazon-two-headquarters-might-not-be-better.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2017-09-08&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1504901207&j=78799551

and yes Microsoft has their 2nd largest campus here.    But in the meantime I want our city to continue to add the 100-200 job expansions for they are much more plentiful that than this WHALE. 

[Scribe]

I will agree with most points except the one below.

UNC Charlotte has a great Comp Sci and even better Engineering programs, but don't forget the Business school and all the masters/doctorate programs they offer.  As for NC State and Duke, a 2 hr drive for a recruiting event? That is nothing. Drive up to the triangle and hit up NC State, Duke and Wake (for business). Heck drive 4 hrs and you get those G Tech kids too, then you have Clemson on the way! Drive down to USC and you have more business school recruits.

12 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

If NC State and Duke were both here in the local area we would be slam duck.

[KJHburg]

I am UNC Charlotte MBA alum I agree and we have a big data analytics program at UNCC but the triangle universities are well known. But you may be right a Carolina or State or Duke grad would probably prefer to stay in the Carolinas and that would make a Charlotte a contender. I said  I think it is 3  cities Northern VA DC or Atlanta or Charlotte.  Given the movement of millenials to Charlotte that puts up ahead of a Boston I would think (then they are cost issues there)   And remember NC passed that mega incentive program that any huge multibillion dollar project gets even more incentives (that was thought of for an automaker but would apply here too)  I want that Toyota Mazda plant in NC and I think we can win it and it will be great for the whole state including this area. 

Here is the RFP from Amazon I will check it out over the next few days  https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything/test/images/usa/RFP_3._V516043504_.pdf

Edited September 8, 2017 by KJHburg

[kermit]

While none of this means anything Brookings has handicapped its favorites in the Amazon derby. They narrow the list with a human capital measure:

Quote

we ranked metros on a “talent pool” index based on four simple metrics: the total metro population with a bachelor’s degree, the share of metro population with a bachelor’s degree, the metro area’s total number of STEM jobs, and the share of STEM jobs in the local labor market.

This metric eliminated every Southern metro (Charlotte included) except for Atlanta and the Triangle. The triangle was eliminated due to the lack of transit.

-shrug-

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2017/09/08/which-cities-are-well-positioned-to-land-amazons-hq2/

 

FWIW: there was a separate article today which said that 55% of Amazon's Seattle workers walk, bike or ride transit to its campus.

Edited September 8, 2017 by kermit

[KJHburg]

For the great Amazon HQ race I think every city west of Denver is automatically eliminated. I still think this is a east coast hunt and yes that includes Texas.  I think Atlanta is in the top 3 and I do think Charlotte could be in hunt as the number of tech jobs increases here in both locally and in the Triangle makes competition for labor much less than the more established hubs on the east coast including both NY and Boston.   They want to put this in a place where they will grow (they are not hiring 40,000 people in  year it is over many years and what area of the country is attracting many people.  That would be the Carolinas.  (and yes Atlanta too)   Toronto is not mentioned here either and they kept saying North American HQ but I think it will go somewhere in the USA for other reasons. 

[nowensone]

Good data/arguments presented here, though the Brookings analysis is disappointing as it is incomplete, not just simple, and therefore  questionable.  You can't leave out metrics like  cost of real estate and living, unemployment rates,  number of candidates seeking jobs,  and available contiguous/adjacent space among other things.  Considering Amazon's stated requirements, that would eliminate some of their "contenders" outright.  As said previously in the thread, they specifically mention travel to certain places which would seem to preclude those very places from being candidates as well.

Didn't even think of Baltimore, seems a longshot but could be a sleeper pick no one expected.

Charlotte looks as if it could actually stand a chance..

[J-Rob]

I know this is probably the longest of long shots given Brookings didn't even include Charlotte, but I literally lost sleep last night envisioning Levineland transforming into HQ2land.

 

#HQ2toCLT

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[CLT2014]

17 hours ago, kermit said:

While none of this means anything Brookings has handicapped its favorites in the Amazon derby. They narrow the list with a human capital measure:

This metric eliminated every Southern metro (Charlotte included) except for Atlanta and the Triangle. The triangle was eliminated due to the lack of transit.

-shrug-

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2017/09/08/which-cities-are-well-positioned-to-land-amazons-hq2/

FWIW: there was a separate article today which said that 55% of Amazon's Seattle workers walk, bike or ride transit to its campus.

Including Austin for transit..... Sure they have 32 miles of a light rail line, but at average daily ridership of 2,750 per day and the last train M-Thur departing at 6:30PM, it is largely not practical for most people (hence the extremely low ridership). Our Gold Line street car is getting 1,600 daily riders and it only goes 2.5 miles compared to Austin's 32 miles.  Our current 9 miles of Blue Line is getting 5 times the ridership of Austin's rail. 

80% of metro Austin drives alone to work
11% carpools
4.1% take transit
2.6% walk
1.4% bike
1.2% other

Hardly Seattle like. If they meet the "transit" requirement, you can cast a pretty wide net. 

Edited September 9, 2017 by CLT2014

[Popsickle]

The more I think about #HQ2toCLT the more I think it is a possibility.

 I am not worried about the education issue that Brookings used to DQ Charlotte. There are just too many great schools within the region. 

Charlotte is already attracting talent and residence at a high rate, something like 57 people a day if I recall correctly, people want to live here. 

Amazon moving here at this stage of Charlotte's development would allow them to have an extremely large influence on how the city develops in the next 30 years, which I think Bezos would love, and I believe this will be a "hidden" factor in chosing the location of HQ2.

I think as stated prior many folks, that 1st ward would be great for Amazon to have as their own. It would give the ward an extremely different feel than what the rest of uptown.

I however don't think the river district is a viable location for Amazon. That location is not even close to being far enough in it's development to satisfy Amazon and the lack light rail set in stone makes it a hard pass. However, if light rail was magically there and Crescent would give some of the area for Amazon to develop in their "style" that would be amazing.  

Edited September 9, 2017 by Popsickle

[kermit]

45 minutes ago, Popsickle said:

I however don't think the river district is a viable location for Amazon. That location is not even close to being far enough in it's development to satisfy Amazon and the lack light rail set in stone makes it a hard pass. However, if light rail was magically there and Crescent would give some of the area for Amazon to develop in their "style" that would be amazing.  

I agree about the River District being a non-starter. The 55% of Seattle workers using alternative transportation to get to work might become an important yardstick. If that sort of mode choice is important to Amazon (and based on the RFP it might be) then we can rule out any suburban setting that lacks heavy rail. Low densities (and highway barriers) will make it impossible for more than a token amount of people to walk or bike and buses and an individual light rail line lack the capacity to move 25,000 new riders during a normal peaked commuting pattern.

I am having a hard time imagining a scenario where Amazon selects a site which forces more than 70% of its workers to drive alone to the office.

#pointlessspeculation

Edited September 9, 2017 by kermit

[queensguy06]

Of the over dozen articles on the HQ2 location I've read, only one mentions charlotte in the hunt - PC World.  While there might be an outside chance for Charlotte, I still think cities like Denver, Toronto, Boston, Austin, and Baltimore all have a much greater chance of landing Amazon.

Also, I think people are putting way too much emphasis on this being an East coast headquarters.  Amazon is an e-commerce business.  The state of technology today, coupled with their vast distribution network and the fact that most of these jobs will be in the programming field means you could put this facility in ANY location with an international airport.

EDIT:  for the record, my gut says Denver.  But boy would it be cool if charlotte landed HQ2.

Edited September 9, 2017 by queensguy06

[Dale]

Seeing how these think tanks rank us, for education, you'd think we were a city of dumbasses.