Downtown Norfolk Progress

[varider]

Excuse my random outburst.. but...

Why is DOWNTOWN NORFOLK SO SMALLL!?!?!? I love downtown Norfolk but like.. what is it going to take for our central business district to grow. Anything need to happen to grow our downtown? #thatisall

I keep seeing all these other cities on Google Maps like New Orleans that are similar in size to Norfolk, yet their downtowns make ours look like downtown Suffolk

Edited June 16, 2010 by varider

[VBIllini13]

Excuse my random outburst.. but...

Why is DOWNTOWN NORFOLK SO SMALLL!?!?!? I love downtown Norfolk but like.. what is it going to take for our central business district to grow. Anything need to happen to grow our downtown? #thatisall

I keep seeing all these other cities on Google Maps like New Orleans that are similar in size to Norfolk, yet their downtowns make ours look like downtown Suffolk

you've asked this question before. are you expecting a different answer?

[BFG]

Excuse my random outburst.. but...

Why is DOWNTOWN NORFOLK SO SMALLL!?!?!? I love downtown Norfolk but like.. what is it going to take for our central business district to grow. Anything need to happen to grow our downtown? #thatisall

I keep seeing all these other cities on Google Maps like New Orleans that are similar in size to Norfolk, yet their downtowns make ours look like downtown Suffolk

Seems that due to the way the city was planned, there's really not too many places to expand, not without knocking down some of the older buildings, and Norfolk's done enough of that recently. The two sides of Brambleton seem so distant, like two different worlds. You have the businesses on one side, then they Greyhound station on the other side, which seems a bit seedy. I'd love to see more businesses on that side, but find a way to compromise the older architecture, not just rip everything down.

It's not the biggest downtown in the world, but it's not bad either. I would prefer more businesses than the vacant condos, but we still have a nice skyline.

Edited June 16, 2010 by BFG

[varider]

you've asked this question before. are you expecting a different answer?

No, I just see that we have a lot of new users so maybe new opinions?

Seems that due to the way the city was planned, there's really not too many places to expand, not without knocking down some of the older buildings, and Norfolk's done enough of that recently. The two sides of Brambleton seem so distant, like two different worlds. You have the businesses on one side, then they Greyhound station on the other side, which seems a bit seedy. I'd love to see more businesses on that side, but find a way to compromise the older architecture, not just rip everything down.

It's not the biggest downtown in the world, but it's not bad either. I would prefer more businesses than the vacant condos, but we still have a nice skyline.

I know it's not bad. I probably love downtown Norfolk more than anyone on this website!

[hollise]

Seems that due to the way the city was planned, there's really not too many places to expand, not without knocking down some of the older buildings, and Norfolk's done enough of that recently. The two sides of Brambleton seem so distant, like two different worlds. You have the businesses on one side, then they Greyhound station on the other side, which seems a bit seedy. I'd love to see more businesses on that side, but find a way to compromise the older architecture, not just rip everything down.

It's not the biggest downtown in the world, but it's not bad either. I would prefer more businesses than the vacant condos, but we still have a nice skyline.

St. Paul's Quadrant should be where the CBD is expanding with higher density commercial on the west side while gradually decreasing the density to the east.

[mikeas]

Excuse my random outburst.. but...

Why is DOWNTOWN NORFOLK SO SMALLL!?!?!? I love downtown Norfolk but like.. what is it going to take for our central business district to grow. Anything need to happen to grow our downtown? #thatisall

I keep seeing all these other cities on Google Maps like New Orleans that are similar in size to Norfolk, yet their downtowns make ours look like downtown Suffolk

Downtown Norfolk almost completely died. Plus not many cities tore down parts of downtown and destroyed the street grid to build public housing projects.

Try to not ignore MacArthur Center when you look at downtown. Despite being one big building it is essentially 4 blocks containing over 150 retailers.

When you look at other cities you are probably including surrounding areas as part of "downtown" without realizing it. If you look at Norfolk and include Atlantic City, the Medical Center, Ghent, and Riverview you would assume downtown was huge.

[johnk812]

Excuse my random outburst.. but...

Why is DOWNTOWN NORFOLK SO SMALLL!?!?!? I love downtown Norfolk but like.. what is it going to take for our central business district to grow. Anything need to happen to grow our downtown? #thatisall

I keep seeing all these other cities on Google Maps like New Orleans that are similar in size to Norfolk, yet their downtowns make ours look like downtown Suffolk

Overly concerned with size? Try living in any bigger downtown for a while. It doesn't count to merely visit. Google Maps doesn't count either! If you are like me, you will appreciate Norfolk a little more when you return. Though, when you return it will be a little bigger. Now, about your question of growth. I think light rail will help with downtown's appeal and if you can up the appeal in any way you can grow. Between downtown Norfolk and Portsmouth we're just at the begining of a great period of collective growth in my opinion. The appeal for both places is on the rise. Whether bigger or not, it's definately more improved than I've ever seen it in my lifetime. Something really needs to be done about Waterside, though. Yikes! That's just awful nowadays.

[urbanlife]

Seems that due to the way the city was planned, there's really not too many places to expand, not without knocking down some of the older buildings, and Norfolk's done enough of that recently. The two sides of Brambleton seem so distant, like two different worlds. You have the businesses on one side, then they Greyhound station on the other side, which seems a bit seedy. I'd love to see more businesses on that side, but find a way to compromise the older architecture, not just rip everything down.

It's not the biggest downtown in the world, but it's not bad either. I would prefer more businesses than the vacant condos, but we still have a nice skyline.

Who says the city needs to knock down more buildings to expand the downtown? It would make more sense to incorporate them in the urban fabric the city already has. I have pointed this out before, downtown Norfolk should be considered to stretch all the way north to Va Beach Blvd, to the Hague Inlet, and over to Tidewater Dr.

Just because that doesnt look like a typical downtown now, doesnt mean it cannot be considered to be apart of downtown or seen as the area downtown could grow into. As for tearing down buildings, clearly much of what sits east of St Paul would need to be torn down in some fashion or another, with exceptions here and there. What happens with the low income housing is a different debate all together, but this should give you guys a good idea of what should be considered to be the downtown or CBD. I would include the hospital or Atlantic City in this, but both are very separated from downtown by the connection of one bridge. I would see those two areas acting more as inner city urban districts just outside of downtown, but they both could still be technically counted as being apart of downtown.

[jeffconn]

Seems that due to the way the city was planned, there's really not too many places to expand, not without knocking down some of the older buildings, and Norfolk's done enough of that recently. The two sides of Brambleton seem so distant, like two different worlds. You have the businesses on one side, then they Greyhound station on the other side, which seems a bit seedy. I'd love to see more businesses on that side, but find a way to compromise the older architecture, not just rip everything down.

It's not the biggest downtown in the world, but it's not bad either. I would prefer more businesses than the vacant condos, but we still have a nice skyline.

I don't understand all the hate for the Greyhound station. It's actually one of the better bus stations i've been in. The interior is pretty classy. If Greyhound moves over to the new intermodal center at Harbor Park, that building will make a great retail location. Around 25 free parking spaces (some covered), a large open space for a sales floor, and a restaurant that can be subleased.

[urbanlife]

I don't understand all the hate for the Greyhound station. It's actually one of the better bus stations i've been in. The interior is pretty classy. If Greyhound moves over to the new intermodal center at Harbor Park, that building will make a great retail location. Around 25 free parking spaces (some covered), a large open space for a sales floor, and a restaurant that can be subleased.

That would be good for a temporary use once Greyhound moved out of there, but I would much rather see the building torn down and that site be used to help spur development north of Brambleton along Granby. There is alot of chances for good urban development that happens in that area, but it is something that would need a large urban project to really get the ball rolling.

[VBIllini13]

Who says the city needs to knock down more buildings to expand the downtown? It would make more sense to incorporate them in the urban fabric the city already has. I have pointed this out before, downtown Norfolk should be considered to stretch all the way north to Va Beach Blvd, to the Hague Inlet, and over to Tidewater Dr.

Just because that doesnt look like a typical downtown now, doesnt mean it cannot be considered to be apart of downtown or seen as the area downtown could grow into. As for tearing down buildings, clearly much of what sits east of St Paul would need to be torn down in some fashion or another, with exceptions here and there. What happens with the low income housing is a different debate all together, but this should give you guys a good idea of what should be considered to be the downtown or CBD. I would include the hospital or Atlantic City in this, but both are very separated from downtown by the connection of one bridge. I would see those two areas acting more as inner city urban districts just outside of downtown, but they both could still be technically counted as being apart of downtown.

Interesting you didn't include an area that is still considered downtown right now - Harbor Park. Yes, it may be cut off from the rest of downtown because of I-264, but the city still considers it downtown and wants to develop it as such. Main Street is even part of that area. I believe if Norfolk voters chose to demolish that huge overpass, that area would develop like we want it to. Unfortunately, Norfolk had that chance about 20 years ago but voted against it (surprise) and will have it again in about 50 years.

[urbanlife]

Interesting you didn't include an area that is still considered downtown right now - Harbor Park. Yes, it may be cut off from the rest of downtown because of I-264, but the city still considers it downtown and wants to develop it as such. Main Street is even part of that area. I believe if Norfolk voters chose to demolish that huge overpass, that area would develop like we want it to. Unfortunately, Norfolk had that chance about 20 years ago but voted against it (surprise) and will have it again in about 50 years.

I didnt include Harbor Park into that for the same reason I didnt include Atlantic City. Harbor Park as of right now is basically a little island mostly cut off from downtown with only a couple limited connections. As things change, the city will be better connected with that area and hopefully it will eventually be its own urban district, but it would still function like its own district and less like an extension of downtown.

Though that is plenty good as well. The map I highlighted was the area that could be integrated in with downtown very easily to give the city a larger and better connected downtown.

I do agree, if the highway was buried through there this would be a whole different conversation. Which it would of been so much nicer having that drop down into a tunnel, which would of make not needing a draw bridge, or just as good would of had the interstate raised a little higher through that area to have a signature bridge that did not need a draw bridge.

[varider]

How come nobody has mentioned the fact that just recently, major downtown construction on the light rail has been completed ahead of schedule and now all major downtown intersections have been re-opened and traffic is flowing again... Anticipation for the light rail is building and I believe that by the time May comes around, we will see a lot of new business opening and Norfolk is heading into the next era, the era of mass transit.. I think more and more people are going to start heading downtown now.. no more detours and dirt and dust flying around.. and the city is even talking about not charging for parking on Saturdays.. which also might bring downtown more business. Even I've noticed that foot traffic has been impressive lately..

[Former Resident of HR]

How come nobody has mentioned the fact that just recently, major downtown construction on the light rail has been completed ahead of schedule and now all major downtown intersections have been re-opened and traffic is flowing again... Anticipation for the light rail is building and I believe that by the time May comes around, we will see a lot of new business opening and Norfolk is heading into the next era, the era of mass transit.. I think more and more people are going to start heading downtown now.. no more detours and dirt and dust flying around.. and the city is even talking about not charging for parking on Saturdays.. which also might bring downtown more business. Even I've noticed that foot traffic has been impressive lately..

Is the city really considering that? It would be nice for downtown businesses too if they could work out some sort of free parking for a certain garage or two after, say 6 pm, to encourage more people to have dinner downtown (and gain more sales tax than they would by charging what they charge). I think for a lot of people, the idea of paying for parking and the hassle it creates makes them shy away from downtown even if that amount is very small. Reduce or eliminate that and downtown would have an even playing field to compete against VB Town Center.

[varider]

Is the city really considering that? It would be nice for downtown businesses too if they could work out some sort of free parking for a certain garage or two after, say 6 pm, to encourage more people to have dinner downtown (and gain more sales tax than they would by charging what they charge). I think for a lot of people, the idea of paying for parking and the hassle it creates makes them shy away from downtown even if that amount is very small. Reduce or eliminate that and downtown would have an even playing field to compete against VB Town Center.

http://www.wvec.com/news/Meter-enforcement-keeps-Saturday-customers-away-Norfolk-businesses-say-96825414.html

I don't know how i feel about the city thinking about making parking free all weekend.. I feel like it'd be impossible to find a spot on Granby or Main if this were the case.. But it would level the playing field with Town Center and likely encourage more pepole to head downtown Norfolk . I don't think that downtown Norfolk should be in direct competiton with Virginia Beach Town Center, though.. IDK, what do ya'll think?

[VBIllini13]

Virginia Beach and Norfolk don't compete with each other. Norfolk realizes they will never be Virginia Beach, and Virginia Beach realizes they will never be Norfolk. Each city is just offering options for the citizens of their and other cities from which to chose. Leaders of both cities realize that if the cities compete like they did in the 1960s and 70s then we will have slow economic growth due to little regional cooperation and we will be bypassed by many economic opportunities.

[jeffconn]

Norfolk might end free NET downtown shuttle

Now this stinks. I use the NET from the opera house daily.

[varider]

hmm..

It's safe to say that downtown Norfolk is on a roll with the new retail coming in? & this should continue into the New Year and beyond.. especially with the light rail opening soon?

It's really nice having that Jimmy John's on the lower end of Granby..

Here's a list of new downtown businesses.

&& we can now add to the list a Buffalo Wild Wings in the Wells Fargo Center..

the next space I expect to be filled is the old Harry's BBQ i think it's called.. on Granby.

[brikkman]

hmm..

It's safe to say that downtown Norfolk is on a roll with the new retail coming in? & this should continue into the New Year and beyond.. especially with the light rail opening soon?

It's really nice having that Jimmy John's on the lower end of Granby..

Here's a list of new downtown businesses.

&& we can now add to the list a Buffalo Wild Wings in the Wells Fargo Center..

the next space I expect to be filled is the old Harry's BBQ i think it's called.. on Granby.

Now only if we can get seldon arcade to flush themselves of that art stuff, lol

move it, move it, move it, move it, move it, move it.......

cyber peer pressure.

[jeffconn]

the next space I expect to be filled is the old Harry's BBQ i think it's called.. on Granby.

Harry's has been vacant for years. i don't know why that hasn't had a new restaurant move in. Nobody has rented out the 2 upper stories either.

[BFG]

Harry's has been vacant for years. i don't know why that hasn't had a new restaurant move in. Nobody has rented out the 2 upper stories either.

Harry's moved over to a building on Tazewell St. From what I was told, the lease for the Granby St. location was too expensive. It's been vacant at least 3 years...

[urbanlife]

Now only if we can get seldon arcade to flush themselves of that art stuff, lol

move it, move it, move it, move it, move it, move it.......

cyber peer pressure.

Please tell me you are just kidding....

[VBIllini13]

Please tell me you are just kidding....

I agree with him. The market should dictate what occupies storefronts. The selden arcade is prime real estate supported by the city. I believe that if a time comes when retail that can actually benefit the economy wants to move into the arcade, then an art gallery shouldn't stand in their way.

[urbanlife]

You guys are aware that a healthy city has a healthy art community and that the art community is in the Sheldon Arcade because the market has already moved them there. It is more important to celebrate a city's art community rather than shuffle it around.

Does Norfolk have a First Thursday or a First Friday it something along those lines? It is a common technique to help a downtown stimulate activity downtown, so rather than shuffle the art community away, it should be treated as a centerpiece to help attract people into downtown which in turn they will turn it into an evening and go to restaurants and shopping while browsing galleries and mingling with people. Trust me on this one, if Norfolk isn't doing this yet and they keep dragging their feet with it, Virginia Beach will start this up with their downtown and it will be widely successful and would make Norfolk and even less important downtown to the region.

[VBIllini13]

The Selden Arcade is dead, especially during the day. The heart of downtown and in prime real estate is not the spot for artists to be able to paint and show off their work. The city put then there because at the time, and still now for a time, the arcade had few if any tenants and they thought it would liven up the place. Clustering art in an inside venue with nothing to attract them inside is just one reason not many people come to norfolk for it's art. I like when artists come to me and are on the street rather than me having to go to them. Why? Because I won't go to them. Art is important to a city but in the form of theater and music rather than amateur painting.

Edited December 23, 2010 by VBIllini13