Downtown Norfolk Progress

[Ghentite]

Haha I recieved the same response for him.

[urbanlife]

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/01/norfolk-council-discusses-stricter-rules-food-trucks

 

Does anyone on Norfolk City Council understand how food trucks operate, or the point of having them?! Wait, Theresa Whibley does.

 

As I commented on the article, Shame on those pesky food trucks! Threatening the brick and mortar shops. Same ol' same ol' from Norfolk City Council, and same ol' micromanagement that's killed so many other business endeavors. It's no wonder the city can't make any moves...if the council's feet aren't sore from dragging them on projects, they definitely hurt from shooting themselves in the foot so many times.

Food carts in Portland, Oregon have turned boring empty parking lots into collections of eatery places that has raised the bar for food and given young chefs an outlet to running a restuarant.  It would be a shame for Norfolk to not take advantage of that, which only adds to a downtown and a city.

[BFG]

Any more information on this master plan for Scope? Sounds intriguing...

http://norfolklive.blogspot.com/2013/01/whats-going-on-with-scope.html

[Ghentite]

Nah, I've been digging for more but haven't found anything.  There have been no files or plans posted anywhere.  Typically, big ticket items discussed at the design and planning commission meetings, end up at the city council meetings, which can be viewed online.  So we may have to wait on that.  I'll post something as soon as I find it though.

[brikkman]

Food carts in Portland, Oregon have turned boring empty parking lots into collections of eatery places that has raised the bar for food and given young chefs an outlet to running a restuarant.  It would be a shame for Norfolk to not take advantage of that, which only adds to a downtown and a city.

What I find interesting is Norfolk's perspective. The one thing I take issue with that area is that they believe they are the center of earth. Anyone who does it differently is wrong or suffering from it. Here in bmore, Food trucks are everywhere, at least around JHOP. Doctors and residents eat there more than any other professional, maybe because of the time constraint. But its amazing what perceptions are in a given place.

The biggies hurdle I see the food trucks having was the parking situation...And in bmore, they apparently take turns and get certified daily..

[Ghentite]

There was a good story on WAVY last night about the Norfolk Apartment boom:

 

http://norfolklive.blogspot.com/2013/02/influx-of-downtown-apartments-could.html

[brikkman]

I'm really hoping to see the Macy's lot get redevelop into something mouth dropping. That could be one hell of a space considering its potential and location.  It will also add some need traffic on monticello.

What ever they do, I hope they add some roof top apartments (not condos), ground level retail and a connection to the mall...I would hope for some kind of entertainment type of development, but considering this waterside thing, anything entertainment will be questioned (really sad too).  If waterside was off LRT, I would not have such an issue with it, but the fact that it is detach and for a few reasons, its hard to want to jump on the waterside bandwagon.  Even permantely affixing it to the sheraton would have been a nice idea. So much missed opportunity there.

 

So, I finally made it back to the harbor in bmore (i'm a bmorian now..). took the metro (which I didn't know went right to powerplanet live) down and checked out powerplanet live. First thing I want to point out, this is different from the power planet, which if you frequent bmore at all, you know this. Its actualy down the street, less than a quarter mile from powerplanet.  They have a very nice setup.  It is mainly composed of bars, like howel at the moon (love that place in Chi-Town), cowboys, etc....At about 9 or 8 pm, security comes out in all black, wraps off the place and there is no entry for non-adults. Everyone is ID before flowing into the area. One thing I want to mention, they had outside stages, etc...  What I was shocked to notice was that it was for all adults, no children. That is a misconception as I see it when some have done the comparison to waterside, or more specifically, what cordish didn't rightfully propose, but the city council assumed (family friendly).  This wasn't a bad place by any stretch, but i had my two year old, in short, we had to walk over to the powerplanet to eat.  but when my boys come to visit here in a few weeks, that is where i'm taking them among other places.  Vibrant even though it was cold as hell out and one thing you appreciate about big cities is the differences in cultures. And I don't just mean black and white, I mean literally cultures of people.  The mix is truly representative of how I see an idea America.

 

So what that being said, wonder what the council's deal is!!! I don't think they truly understand what goes into making a vibrant city, districts, etc...I'm not a council member, heck these guys do it for a living, why is it hard for them to see it through on some things.

[mistermetaj]

I'm really hoping to see the Macy's lot get redevelop into something mouth dropping. That could be one hell of a space considering its potential and location.  It will also add some need traffic on monticello.

What ever they do, I hope they add some roof top apartments (not condos), ground level retail and a connection to the mall...I would hope for some kind of entertainment type of development, but considering this waterside thing, anything entertainment will be questioned (really sad too).  If waterside was off LRT, I would not have such an issue with it, but the fact that it is detach and for a few reasons, its hard to want to jump on the waterside bandwagon.  Even permantely affixing it to the sheraton would have been a nice idea. So much missed opportunity there.

 

So, I finally made it back to the harbor in bmore (i'm a bmorian now..). took the metro (which I didn't know went right to powerplanet live) down and checked out powerplanet live. First thing I want to point out, this is different from the power planet, which if you frequent bmore at all, you know this. Its actualy down the street, less than a quarter mile from powerplanet.  They have a very nice setup.  It is mainly composed of bars, like howel at the moon (love that place in Chi-Town), cowboys, etc....At about 9 or 8 pm, security comes out in all black, wraps off the place and there is no entry for non-adults. Everyone is ID before flowing into the area. One thing I want to mention, they had outside stages, etc...  What I was shocked to notice was that it was for all adults, no children. That is a misconception as I see it when some have done the comparison to waterside, or more specifically, what cordish didn't rightfully propose, but the city council assumed (family friendly).  This wasn't a bad place by any stretch, but i had my two year old, in short, we had to walk over to the powerplanet to eat.  but when my boys come to visit here in a few weeks, that is where i'm taking them among other places.  Vibrant even though it was cold as hell out and one thing you appreciate about big cities is the differences in cultures. And I don't just mean black and white, I mean literally cultures of people.  The mix is truly representative of how I see an idea America.

 

So what that being said, wonder what the council's deal is!!! I don't think they truly understand what goes into making a vibrant city, districts, etc...I'm not a council member, heck these guys do it for a living, why is it hard for them to see it through on some things.

 

A lot of council members and especially our deputy Mayor does not necessarily want Norfolk to become a large vibrant city.  They want small neighborhoods connected to a small downtown that caters exclusively to the locals.  That is why "neighborhood input" was so important for St. Paul's quadrant even though the "neighborhood" was subsidized housing.  It's not everyone, but to say there's resistance to expanding the DT and Norfolk as a whole is an understatement.  Don't forget the rampant racism and reverse racism at all levels of govt especially in Norfolk as well.  

[urbanlife]

A lot of council members and especially our deputy Mayor does not necessarily want Norfolk to become a large vibrant city.  They want small neighborhoods connected to a small downtown that caters exclusively to the locals.  That is why "neighborhood input" was so important for St. Paul's quadrant even though the "neighborhood" was subsidized housing.  It's not everyone, but to say there's resistance to expanding the DT and Norfolk as a whole is an understatement.  Don't forget the rampant racism and reverse racism at all levels of govt especially in Norfolk as well.  

 

This is one of the main reasons why Virginia Beach will pass Norfolk by with the size of downtown.  The region might as well look to VB to create the center of the region because that is where it will be in coming decades.

[Brent]

Maybe in 50 years...

[metalman]

"Don't forget the rampant racism and reverse racism at all levels of govt especially in Norfolk as well."

 

There's no such thing as reverse racism.  Racism is racism, no matter who gives it or receives it.  There's nothing reverse about it.  

 

There.  I'm off my soap box.

[brikkman]

"Don't forget the rampant racism and reverse racism at all levels of govt especially in Norfolk as well."

 

There's no such thing as reverse racism.  Racism is racism, no matter who gives it or receives it.  There's nothing reverse about it.  

 

There.  I'm off my soap box.

agreed.

I wish someone would ask the city council directly and require a response from each council member "Do they want Norfolk to progress into a thriving, bustling city"...then hear their responses. Because it seems as though sometimes, they aren't interested in being that type of city....  And although I prefer Norfolk to be vibrant as it was at the beginning of last century, at least the citizens know where they stand if they envision not to be.

The reason why I believe this is a

NEED TO DO" is because a lot of decisions that are being made with regards to the direction of the city can add in some understanding.  For instance, the jusitifcation of LRT, or supporting or not supporting groups....The jusitification of NOT extending DT into SPQ.  A lot of middle age and young age people scratch their heads because they can't understand what the city is doing what month to the next.  Spending money on this and that, but not doing this or that.  Very confusing if you look souly on what they do as a council.

[mistermetaj]

Truth be told, regardless of what City Council wants, it's all contingent on can the city attract business to Norfolk.  I know they are on a residential building binge right now, but ultimately we need jobs.  And we need jobs that aren't in the defense industry or government.  If we want higher wages and bigger buildings, we need to attract banks or fortune 500 companies to move here.

 

Now, that does beg the question, what attracts a large company to Norfolk (or Va Beach).  Outside of tax incentives, I would have to assume quality of life.  Now that includes cost of living, transportation, extracurricular activities, school systems, etc.  Norfolk is making headway in transportation with light rail and the amtrak line.  That is going to pay major dividends in expanding the city over time.  The greater connectivity to other cities (DC especially) the more marketable the area is.  However, our roads are awful and we only have one major highway running through to it.  That is a hindrance.  It would be fantastic if Route 17 became a highway so we didn't have to drive all the way out to Richmond on 64 to then turn north to DC on 95, but instead connect in Fredricsburg.  The Norfolk public school system is also atrocious, so many people with children would think twice about coming here.  South East Hampton Roads is also very expensive in the real estate market.  For comparison, look at what $300,000 gets you in this area vs. Charlotte, NC.  

 

My point being, there are things well beyond the scope of what city council can do to make Norfolk a larger more vibrant city.  They are taking progressive steps with what they have, but it will take a large company moving in (See BoA in Charlotte) and a great restructure of our infrastructure and interstate HW to alleviate the "cul de sac" issue we are dealing with to really lead to city and regional expansion.  

 

Norfolk city council seems more focused on quality of life, hence the art district, investment in schools, and some business ventures like Waterside which are also profitable.   

Edited February 25, 2013 by mistermetaj

[Ghentite]

Yep.  They're renovating The Scope.  http://norfolklive.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-scope-to-undergo-renovations.html

[BFG]

Again?! I wonder if they're trying to compete with the possible arena at the Beach?

[mikeas]

An interesting thing about Scope is that the whole dome structure is independent of the seating bowl and insides.  Not sure how expensive it would be but technically it would be possible to gut the inside and build a new arena within.  If they used a steeper seating arrangement they could fit a lot more seats in the end areas.  Additionally it would be nice to build some real corporate boxes elevated somewhere and put real seats in the area behind the nets during hockey.

[mikeas]

Here were some proposed changes to Scope from a downtown architectural firm:

 

http://www.wparch.com/renovations-to-scope-arena/

 

They didn't win the proposal though.

[BFG]

I did a little reading on the old Mellon Arena in Pittsburgh (now demolished, see below), which had a dome like structure similar to the Scope's. Over the years they actually installed balcony/rafter seating that added a few thousand seats. I think that could work, and gutting the place for more seats (especially the end area behind a backboard or goal) would probably help. With the way the upper seats "curve" downward, I could easily see an upper deck in the end areas.
 

Mellon.

 

Scope.

[virginia pe]

 

I did a little reading on the old Mellon Arena in Pittsburgh (now demolished, see below), which had a dome like structure similar to the Scope's. Over the years they actually installed balcony/rafter seating that added a few thousand seats. I think that could work, and gutting the place for more seats (especially the end area behind a backboard or goal) would probably help. With the way the upper seats "curve" downward, I could easily see an upper deck in the end areas.

 

The upper seats at Scope curve downward because of the geometry. I don't think you can do much about that. When you put an oblong playing surface inside a circle, and then slope upward from the edge of the playing surface, you get the sombrero shape that you see at Scope. Foreman Field at ODU has a similar shape on the sideline seating. (It makes it hard to expand Foreman Field, too.)

The difference between Scope and the old Mellon Arena is Scope's dome is much flatter. It makes it harder to do what Pittsburgh did.

By the way, the Mellon arena was nicknamed "The Igloo" because it was the home of the Pittsburgh Penguins hockey team, and because it looked like an igloo from the outside. The roof of the igloo was retractable. Each of the segments shown in the photo was on wheels, and they would rotate and stack up above the center section shown (above Mario LeMeaux's #66 jersey), so they could have open-air events there.

[varider]

http://insidebiz.com/news/brazilian-swimwear-store-open-downtown-norfolk

 

Developer Bobby Wright is working to open Loja Leblon, a Brazilian swimwear and lingerie store, at 256 Granby Street.

 

 

 

 

Because I own the building, we have a tremendous amount of flexibility,” Wright said. “If I were to secure a different tenant like Anthropologie, I would move our store.”

Wright, president of The Wright Co. a commercial real estate firm based at 273 Granby Street, worked for 10 years to secure Urban Outfitters as a tenant.

“We’re chasing them just as we chased Urban Outfitters,” he said of Anthropologie, a women’s clothing, accessories and home decor store. 

 

 

[Ghentite]

Good find...hopefully the moment picks up.

[BFG]

I think this has now become my favorite building in all of Hampton Roads. There's so much charm here...hopefully the right person buys it. Would make an awesome office building.

 

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/04/freemason-building-gets-makeover-lure-buyer

[mistermetaj]

Went to better block. It was very nice and made a very good connection across Granby. I still don't think anyone will stay there until the projects are removed. They are too close. Norfolk needs to focus on that problem soon.

[Ghentite]

Two success stories came out of Better Block.  This big one is that Alchemy NFK, where all of the artists gathered in the old furniture store, will become a permanent art community space.  The room will be divided into 16 sections for artists to rent as mini galleries.  The garage in the back will be divided four ways into soundproof rooms for bands to rehearse in.  A coffee shop is also being planned.  The only thing holding it back is the zoning within that neighborhood prohibiting shared spaces.  The city is expected to change this in May which will allow for more places like this.  Alchemy is looking to hold a grand opening in June.

 

Another smaller success is the pop-up shop Fairview Place that sold crafts and terraniums.  The owner of the building asked them to stay for a while to help enhance the area and his building. 

 

In addition, the Texaco building on the corner that had the gallery/bar/music is under negitiation for purchase.

 

So regardless of the projects, things are certainly in motion to improve the area.

 

On a side note, we were out there every night for a week setting up, and didn't run into a single issue with crime or anything else shady.  Realize it was just a snapshot in time but we didn't feel unsafe at any point in time.

 

 

Went to better block. It was very nice and made a very good connection across Granby. I still don't think anyone will stay there until the projects are removed. They are too close. Norfolk needs to focus on that problem soon.

[carolinaboy]

I may be stating teh obvious here but I have been thinking about it lately.

 

The City is really doing a good job with downtown right now. Not all may agree and I am sure there are some things/decisions that might have been done better but, the city is currently building INFRASTRUCTURE in downtown. Light Rail (and possible extensions), the passenger rail terminal, the bus transfer station, the Court building (Phase 1?) the Library, the conference space with the new hotel, Scope renovations. All infrastructure....amenities. They are putting alot of the things in place that will lead to more people moving into downtown or visiting downtown more often. This will allow private development to happen and with the new apartments on Bousch and Granby Streets we are starting to see that.

 

I think what the City has done is positive and will lead to those mixed-use developments we all desperately want to see. Perhaps not in the distant future we will get that 30+ story tower, or a few more 20+ ones along the light rail line.

 

I think things are coming together, the city is almost achieving critical mass for big(ger) things to happen.