Downtown Norfolk Progress

[varider]

Something I threw together today..

[varider]

About my video, I just noticed that when I pass the skyline and am going over the bridge it says, "the whole city's behind us." Just thought that was cool

[Mobius57]

That music = Fail

[Telmnstr]

Sounds like we need a video contest on here, with some sort of given subject.

[varider]

That music = Fail

I didn't like it either, but youtube wouldn't let me sample the music, so I just went with it because it had something to do with cities. Ha.

[brikkman]

I didn't like it either, but youtube wouldn't let me sample the music, so I just went with it because it had something to do with cities. Ha.

Ya'll wildin, that songs is hot, well the first two verses....The last verse, game's verse is weak, horrible, terrible. At a minimum, the beat is hot.

[br0guy]

Ya'll wildin, that songs is hot, well the first two verses....The last verse, game's verse is weak, horrible, terrible. At a minimum, the beat is hot.

I agree, the beat is tight (not the 1st time its been sampled though).

[mistermetaj]

Something I threw together today..

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[varider]

The whole city hall complex is so damn ugly it drives me crazy. I can't wait for the whole thing to be ripped down.

Definately agreed.Build a 25 story City Hall too!

At least the Cosolidated Courts Complex is coming soon.

[varider]

Well how do you guys feel about the lack of a single tower crane downtown as of now? Things are starting to..... dry up.

If the Westin falls through (hopefully it doesn't, but with Norfolk you never know), hopefully we will get something better and taller..

A 35 floor tower on that lot, and a 35 floor tower on the Courtyard lot would give us a beautifal, balanced, big city skyline.

[mistermetaj]

Well how do you guys feel about the lack of a single tower crane downtown as of now? Things are starting to..... dry up.

If the Westin falls through (hopefully it doesn't, but with Norfolk you never know), hopefully we will get something better and taller..

A 35 floor tower on that lot, and a 35 floor tower on the Courtyard lot would give us a beautifal, balanced, big city skyline.

Its just a sign of the times at this moment. Norfolk, nor any other city can't do much without financing. Most cities are just finishing off old buildings that were already under construction pre 2007 to very early 2008. Look at Chicago and you'll see a city that has lost tons of money and realestate to the market collapse.

[Achilles]

Its just a sign of the times at this moment. Norfolk, nor any other city can't do much without financing. Most cities are just finishing off old buildings that were already under construction pre 2007 to very early 2008. Look at Chicago and you'll see a city that has lost tons of money and realestate to the market collapse.

You said it. We're certainly not the only ones with stalled/canceled buildings. Although, ironically, you'd expect more buildings to be built right now because construction is so CHEAP. I know someone who's an electrical contractor, and he tells me he's losing a lot of jobs to other companies who are WAY underbidding him and his company and that, if he bids any lower, he won't make any sort of profit at all and will, basically, be wasting time and money. It's nothing but good news for the customers, though. You get custom, quality construction, etc. (well, hopefully) for a rock-bottom price. I'm guessing other factors--like attracting tenants--are in play here, though. Can't afford to build something and pay property taxes on it, etc. without having any tenants to provide you with any income for such a building.

[varider]

Details on Granby has opened at 132 Granby St. in downtown Norfolk, selling men's and women's clothing and accessories.

Source: VP

Edited October 18, 2009 by varider

[Telmnstr]

America is drying up. Perhaps the Chinese will come in and build some stuff and rent it to us.

Maybe they can build some factories for our people to work in. We can make them trinkets.

So no one is interested in a video contest.

[varider]

So no one is interested in a video contest.

I am. But what kind of video?

[Telmnstr]

I dunno. Subject should be something local related. Hmmm.

[varider]

Just got home from DT.

City was packed. Lots of people asking where Chrysler Hall was. Lots of people shopping @ MacArthur. Lots of people watching football on Granby, Lots of people checking out of hotels. Etc.

The DT ambassador people were out helping people and handing out pamphlets.

Overall, downtown seems like it's doing good business.

[varider]

Guys, Is it just me, or does it seem like most of our downtown streets are 100% under-utilized,and some are complete wastes?

I see little sporadic surface lots in between buildings, blocks and blocks of "dead" space with an excessive amount of stand alone parking decks and office buildings on pedestals. I see boarded up, abandoned retail spaces and blocks of closed roads and construction lots that aren't under construction. In visiting many cities recently like Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York,DC and looking at others on Google Streetview, It makes me wonder, "what the heck is wrong with my city." I understand that Norfolk isn't a big city. But that's no excuse for the lack of connectivity and urban vibrancy on our city streets. We have two subways, a tropical smoothie, a Starbucks, and a couple locally eateries. We have a huge suburban mall smack dab in the center of the city that draws people into the downtown, but constrains them to the four walls.

Now I know how far we have come in the past 5-10 years, but It doesn't seem like the city has done enough. Light rail is good, Town Point Park and the Cruise teminal is good, Wells fargo + the Belmont + the Residence Inn is all good.

I just feel we could do much better.

I mean look at this guys. This city has the same metro pop. as Norfolk. And Norfolk is much denser.

It's utterly embarrassing.

Excusez mon rant.

[urbanlife]

Well the two aerial shots that you are showing really doesnt show off what you are talking about...but I do know what you mean...and to take it a step further, I would say a small city like Boise has more street activity than Norfolk (though keep in mind it has been over 8yrs since I have been in Norfolk, so things could have changed some.) The real issue with Norfolk is their lack of active streetscapes, not skylines...Houston has an impressive skyline, but the downtown is nothing but office towers.

In order for Norfolk to have more activity, they need to have more chances for this to happen...the whole developments along Brambleton would of been a great place to require at least 70% of the ground floors to be dedicated to retail and restaurants and such, this would of given a new urban area of downtown a chance to become an active street.

One should try my test I asked a while back, which you should walk as many blocks of downtown Norfolk as you can and count how many dead blocks there are...which means how many blocks that have no activity or chance for activity because the block does not provide space for such ideas.

Also it would be important for the city to draw up an activity plan to map out how they could better connect each part of the downtown, which currently seems more like segments of a downtown.

[varider]

Yeah, I know. I wanted to make the point about the streetscapes and the overall growth of a downtown (what the pictures were for).

Norfolk has had a good amount of foot traffic the past couple weekends I've been down there (never been to Boise), but it's restricted to Granby and Main. Boush is entirely residential (with the exception of the grocery store and Machismo), Monticello has a couple restaurants, but the rest is dead as a doorknob (don't get me started on the Fed. Building), Plume is ghost, Freemason looks like some Amish settlement (maybe an exaggeration), Charlotte is dead, etc.

It reallly upsets me because I love urban areas and big cities, but I also love my hometown, and I want my hometown to be an urban city, but as it is right now, and with the current leadership/mentality,it ain't gonna happen. At least Virginia Beach (with it's miniscule TC and Oceanfront) has adequate retail/street level activity. Ahh.

[urbanlife]

Yeah, I know how you feel and for me, I solved this problem by moving to a city that better fit my needs. But you are right, there has always been too much of a focus on a couple streets in downtown rather than downtown as a whole. Is it fixable? Of course it is, I have been bouncing around the idea of trying to do an urban plan to help reconnect the fragments of downtown Norfolk for a side project while I am in between my Bachelors and Masters.

But this grip is the same one that I make when I see pictures of City Hall Blvd now and then, at one time that street was filled with storefronts and sidewalk activity, then the city sacrificed it for parking lots, then replaced the parking lots with a massive parking garage for the mall that adds zero activity to the sidewalks, thus leaving an entire street in downtown dead...Plume to me has always felt like the loading dock street...hopefully the new light rail stop and the new library can help fix this issue...but I wouldnt put too much weight into either one.

[mistermetaj]

Guys, Is it just me, or does it seem like most of our downtown streets are 100% under-utilized,and some are complete wastes?

I see little sporadic surface lots in between buildings, blocks and blocks of "dead" space with an excessive amount of stand alone parking decks and office buildings on pedestals. I see boarded up, abandoned retail spaces and blocks of closed roads and construction lots that aren't under construction. In visiting many cities recently like Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York,DC and looking at others on Google Streetview, It makes me wonder, "what the heck is wrong with my city." I understand that Norfolk isn't a big city. But that's no excuse for the lack of connectivity and urban vibrancy on our city streets. We have two subways, a tropical smoothie, a Starbucks, and a couple locally eateries. We have a huge suburban mall smack dab in the center of the city that draws people into the downtown, but constrains them to the four walls.

Now I know how far we have come in the past 5-10 years, but It doesn't seem like the city has done enough. Light rail is good, Town Point Park and the Cruise teminal is good, Wells fargo + the Belmont + the Residence Inn is all good.

I just feel we could do much better.

I mean look at this guys. This city has the same metro pop. as Norfolk. And Norfolk is much denser.

It's utterly embarrassing.

Excusez mon rant.

The day you convince Bank of America and Wachovia to relocate from Charlotte to Norfolk, you will have the bustling downtown you always wanted and Charlotte will become a ghost town.

[ronsmytheiii]

Yeah, I know how you feel and for me, I solved this problem by moving to a city that better fit my needs. But you are right, there has always been too much of a focus on a couple streets in downtown rather than downtown as a whole. Is it fixable? Of course it is, I have been bouncing around the idea of trying to do an urban plan to help reconnect the fragments of downtown Norfolk for a side project while I am in between my Bachelors and Masters.

But this grip is the same one that I make when I see pictures of City Hall Blvd now and then, at one time that street was filled with storefronts and sidewalk activity, then the city sacrificed it for parking lots, then replaced the parking lots with a massive parking garage for the mall that adds zero activity to the sidewalks, thus leaving an entire street in downtown dead...Plume to me has always felt like the loading dock street...hopefully the new light rail stop and the new library can help fix this issue...but I wouldnt put too much weight into either one.

Here is one idea of how to fix it, After Light Rail starts going in downtown why not remake the bottom floors of MacArthur into Shops? We still would not have an Urban district but it could help improve the streetscape.

My only issue is that even if you look at Granby right now there are plenty of vacancies, we really need to start getting more people/shops downtown first. Light rail will probably start this trend and also the new apartments going downtown, but this is not going to happen overnight. Norfolk has come a long way from the 80's, it just needs time right now to grow. Charlotte was extremely lucky to get the banks in its town, but we cannot rely on some company rolliing into town and suddenly creating our urban utopia 757, steady moderate growth as Norfolk is doing is the best policy, can some things be better yes however I think that we have had amazing progress.

[varider]

Yeah, I know how you feel and for me, I solved this problem by moving to a city that better fit my needs. But you are right, there has always been too much of a focus on a couple streets in downtown rather than downtown as a whole. Is it fixable? Of course it is, I have been bouncing around the idea of trying to do an urban plan to help reconnect the fragments of downtown Norfolk for a side project while I am in between my Bachelors and Masters.

But this grip is the same one that I make when I see pictures of City Hall Blvd now and then, at one time that street was filled with storefronts and sidewalk activity, then the city sacrificed it for parking lots, then replaced the parking lots with a massive parking garage for the mall that adds zero activity to the sidewalks, thus leaving an entire street in downtown dead...Plume to me has always felt like the loading dock street...hopefully the new light rail stop and the new library can help fix this issue...but I wouldnt put too much weight into either one.

I love it here too much to move someplace else. I'd rather stay and try and make it better.

Right now the only purpose for City Hall Blvd. is a quick way outta downtown.

Would it be possible to knock out some of the brick on MacArthur and reconfigure it for storefronts? If so, that needs to be done ASAP. They have a nice wide,bricked sidewalk over there as well.

Plume is horrible. I think Greenbrier has more density than that street.

Supposedly, this downtown retail hustler is supposed to be the cure-all for our lack of outdoor retail. We'll see. I know in many other cities,right before the LR became operational, retailers and eateries opened up all over the place..

The day you convince Bank of America and Wachovia to relocate from Charlotte to Norfolk, you will have the bustling downtown you always wanted and Charlotte will become a ghost town.

It's not even about BoA and Wachovia (maybe for Charlotte, but they may be loosing BoA anyhow). A small town like Charleston, Sc has done a much better job of creating a vibrant downtown than we have.

Here is one idea of how to fix it, After Light Rail starts going in downtown why not remake the bottom floors of MacArthur into Shops? We still would not have an Urban district but it could help improve the streetscape.

My only issue is that even if you look at Granby right now there are plenty of vacancies, we really need to start getting more people/shops downtown first. Light rail will probably start this trend and also the new apartments going downtown, but this is not going to happen overnight. Norfolk has come a long way from the 80's, it just needs time right now to grow. Charlotte was extremely lucky to get the banks in its town, but we cannot rely on some company rolliing into town and suddenly creating our urban utopia 757, steady moderate growth as Norfolk is doing is the best policy, can some things be better yes however I think that we have had amazing progress.

Granby has been looking kind of rough, especially south of City Hall. I think it's getting better though. I saw some work in the 219, obviously we know about the Kabab Shacck, saw some work goin' on in O' Malley's (sp.), etc. I think LRT will be a big deal for downtown.

[urbanlife]

Well I can tell you why Charleston has more activity, that city didnt knock down most of its historic downtown for new buildings, it has two big universities right next to it, and it isnt a big downtown to begin with.

And to each their own with living there, if you are happy there, then you should try to be active and focus on making the city apart of your life...heck, you should look into non profit routes that could be done or politically proactive things you could do. Me personally, I was unhappy there and never really felt like I fit in with the average mold of the people that live there...here in Portland, I feel like I am in Nerd Central sometimes, which is where I belong and have been very happy here because of that.

Also, it is very important to travel as much as you can and see how other cities handle their urban issues....and I dont mean look at how great other cities are compared to Norfolk, but how did those cities get there, what were there moves to make their cities the way they are...in Portland, it was smart planning that happened in the 70s that caused the city that is here today, but even that took 30 years to really show its effect.

As for any changes to MacArthur, dont count on much happening to that building to effect the streetside because it is currently the gorilla in the city...sure, it was the gorilla to bring new life to downtown, but now it is something the city has to work around...the only way you are ever going to see any changes to that building is if a massive renovation that includes at least a partial demolition of the building to happen...and I dont see that happening any time soon.