NC Transit Tax Bill stalls in Senate

[Nindec]

http://heraldsun.southernheadlines.com/durham/4-1189753.cfm?

I'm not familiar with Charlotte's Sen. Clodfelter, but I'm really surprised by this. Legislation allowing other counties to raise sales taxes for public transportation, just like in Charlotte, passed the NC House with 75 votes, and looked likely to pass the NC Senate.

But now one of Charlotte's senator's is holding it up over allowing rural counties to raise a 1/4 cent transit sales tax?

There's more information about the bill here: http://www.newsobserver.com/front/story/1439016.html. Sound's like Rep. Carney from Charlotte's been leading the way on this -- good for her.

But Clodfelter's stance really confuses me, since the tax has been so popular and successful in Charlotte. Is he generally anti-transit?

According to the article, they're hoping to move on the bill this week. Please call up Clodfelter, especially if live in Charlotte, and encourage him to let the bill move forward. The rest of NC really wants to catch up with you guys.

Sen. Dan Clodfelter

(919) 715-8331

[email protected]

[uptownliving]

I don't think he is Anti-Transit....but he definately loves to play politics. This is the same guy that refused to support Mecklenburgs request to be added to the bill unless the MTC guranteed the extra money would be used to do LRT down Independence Blvd....Well the MTC did not bite.

[Spartan]

That's pretty much all it is. He wants LRT on Independence.

[monsoon]

Clodfelter is not anti-transit. I think the article did a good job in explaining why he doesn't want the tax. It has to do with the existing taxes that are already approved that are not being used throughout most of the state.

Will the 1/2 cent tax put trains in the Triangle? Probably not, but it will allow the transit agency that gets the money to grow to new unprecedented size and a dedicated tax that residents have to pay where there won't be any accountability for its use.

[southslider]

If the Triangle could just figure out how to share their railroad corridor with freight, Amtrak, and future high-speed, then a half-cent would easily buy them rail transit. Even with lower sales tax receipts. For one, they would have three counties to pool funding. Besides, by the time they went through all the hoops for New Starts funding, a half-cent would buy even more in a recovered economy. Given their larger funding pool and timing, they should really consider building formal LRT along shared right-of-way instead of DMU's on shared tracks.

[urban980]

I am not a fan of other NC counties growing their transit before Charlotte finishes building the LYNX. Why? Because 25% of Charlotte's mass transit funding comes from the State. If the State begins to fund other mass transit systems, Charlotte will get the short end of the stick. This has already happened with road funding in NC. The ONLY reason why Charlotte got the state's help for LYNX is because Charlotte really doesn't compete with any other town in NC for transit dollars. Roads are a MUCH different story.

Eventhough we are only talking about funding at the county level, we all know the Triangle will ask for 25% state funding just like Charlotte did. NC can not afford to help both areas (just like the state can not afford to build freeway loops around Charlotte and Raleigh). Lack of competition has been Charlotte's savior when it comes to expanding transit. Once the Triangle gets on board, Charlotte's transit plans will suffer delays much like I-485's completion. This is a reality that makes me envy cities like Atlanta. Georgia has all of its eggs in the "Atlanta" basket. Charlotte is forced to share funding with every "wannabe Charlotte" in this state (and I for one am sick of it). The fact that I-77 in York county has more lanes than I-77 in Charlotte is proof that Charlotte would get more love if it were a SC town. There is no way SC would let a city the size of Charlotte wait for infrastructure improvements (it certainly did not let its fastest growing county wait for 8 lanes of I-77). What has NC done for its fastest growing county (Union County)? EXACTLY!!! It is the ONLY county in the state with over 200,000 people and ZERO miles of freeway (and its only hope for a freeway will have toll booths). To be quite honest, every county in this state with over 100,000 people has a freeway in it!

I am sorry for the rant, but I certainly see the ugly pattern of Charlotte getting shorted in this state. First roads, now transit. If you don't believe me, just wait until the state tells Charlotte its 25% share of the LYNX extension money is on hold due to "other projects" in the state (ie, the light rail line being built in Raleigh). It will happen. You heard it here first.

[monsoon]

I am not a fan of other NC counties growing their transit before Charlotte finishes building the LYNX. Why? Because 25% of Charlotte's mass transit funding comes from the State. If the State begins to fund other mass transit systems,.....

[Spartan]

I don't think the issue is CATS not being able to build anymore trains, its just that they can't build all of them at the same time.

I am not a fan of other NC counties growing their transit before Charlotte finishes building the LYNX. Why? Because 25% of Charlotte's mass transit funding comes from the State. If the State begins to fund other mass transit systems, Charlotte will get the short end of the stick. This has already happened with road funding in NC. The ONLY reason why Charlotte got the state's help for LYNX is because Charlotte really doesn't compete with any other town in NC for transit dollars. Roads are a MUCH different story.

Eventhough we are only talking about funding at the county level, we all know the Triangle will ask for 25% state funding just like Charlotte did. NC can not afford to help both areas (just like the state can not afford to build freeway loops around Charlotte and Raleigh). Lack of competition has been Charlotte's savior when it comes to expanding transit. Once the Triangle gets on board, Charlotte's transit plans will suffer delays much like I-485's completion. This is a reality that makes me envy cities like Atlanta. Georgia has all of its eggs in the "Atlanta" basket. Charlotte is forced to share funding with every "wannabe Charlotte" in this state (and I for one am sick of it). The fact that I-77 in York county has more lanes than I-77 in Charlotte is proof that Charlotte would get more love if it were a SC town. There is no way SC would let a city the size of Charlotte wait for infrastructure improvements (it certainly did not let its fastest growing county wait for 8 lanes of I-77). What has NC done for its fastest growing county (Union County)? EXACTLY!!! It is the ONLY county in the state with over 200,000 people and ZERO miles of freeway (and its only hope for a freeway will have toll booths). To be quite honest, every county in this state with over 100,000 people has a freeway in it!

I am sorry for the rant, but I certainly see the ugly pattern of Charlotte getting shorted in this state. First roads, now transit. If you don't believe me, just wait until the state tells Charlotte its 25% share of the LYNX extension money is on hold due to "other projects" in the state (ie, the light rail line being built in Raleigh). It will happen. You heard it here first.

[ChiefJoJo]

I am not a fan of other NC counties growing their transit before Charlotte finishes building the LYNX. Why? Because 25% of Charlotte's mass transit funding comes from the State. If the State begins to fund other mass transit systems, Charlotte will get the short end of the stick. This has already happened with road funding in NC. The ONLY reason why Charlotte got the state's help for LYNX is because Charlotte really doesn't compete with any other town in NC for transit dollars. Roads are a MUCH different story.

Eventhough we are only talking about funding at the county level, we all know the Triangle will ask for 25% state funding just like Charlotte did. NC can not afford to help both areas (just like the state can not afford to build freeway loops around Charlotte and Raleigh). Lack of competition has been Charlotte's savior when it comes to expanding transit. Once the Triangle gets on board, Charlotte's transit plans will suffer delays much like I-485's completion. This is a reality that makes me envy cities like Atlanta. Georgia has all of its eggs in the "Atlanta" basket. Charlotte is forced to share funding with every "wannabe Charlotte" in this state (and I for one am sick of it). The fact that I-77 in York county has more lanes than I-77 in Charlotte is proof that Charlotte would get more love if it were a SC town. There is no way SC would let a city the size of Charlotte wait for infrastructure improvements (it certainly did not let its fastest growing county wait for 8 lanes of I-77). What has NC done for its fastest growing county (Union County)? EXACTLY!!! It is the ONLY county in the state with over 200,000 people and ZERO miles of freeway (and its only hope for a freeway will have toll booths). To be quite honest, every county in this state with over 100,000 people has a freeway in it!

I am sorry for the rant, but I certainly see the ugly pattern of Charlotte getting shorted in this state. First roads, now transit. If you don't believe me, just wait until the state tells Charlotte its 25% share of the LYNX extension money is on hold due to "other projects" in the state (ie, the light rail line being built in Raleigh). It will happen. You heard it here first.

[staffer]

The transit bill was approved by a voice vote in the Senate Finance Committee today and will probably get voted on by the full Senate on Wednesday.

[staffer]

The transit bill was approved by a voice vote in the Senate Finance Committee today and will probably get voted on by the full Senate on Wednesday.

[monsoon]

......

As Spartan points out, Atlanta is a terrible example (for almost anything) ......

[ChiefJoJo]

This does not seem to be an informed statement. Marta's heavy rail system in Atlanta has a daily ridership that is easily 20X that of Lynx. Furthermore if all of the light rail is built that is planned for the Triangle and Charlotte is built, still won't come close to matching this ridership. Rather than declare them useless, I think they have a few things to teach any area looking to get into this business. (though you used the word pompous I won't stoop to that myself)

I believe the GA state government is in the process of allowing the people in the Atlanta region to vote in a 1% transit tax.

[beyonce245]

I am not a fan of other NC counties growing their transit before Charlotte finishes building the LYNX. Why? Because 25% of Charlotte's mass transit funding comes from the State. If the State begins to fund other mass transit systems, Charlotte will get the short end of the stick. This has already happened with road funding in NC.

[monsoon]

..... This bill has been touted as a bill for the Triangle, but it may affect the Charlotte metro, as Cabarrus County has it's eyes set on the 1/4 cent option to fund the Lynx Blue Line extension into Concord, which despite what a few posters have said here, has an excellent chance of being funded by the feds. I hope other counties take a hard look at using the 1/4 cent option to extend bus and rail lines to Gaston, York, Iredell, Union.

[uptownliving]

Cabarrus & Kannapolis operates a transit agency independent from CATS. They did this because they didn't want to join the MTC and hand over money blindly to CATS.

[ChiefJoJo]

CATS never offered and never wanted to run the Transit Agency for Concord and Kannapolis. CATS does run Express buses to Cabarrus County which are subsidized by the local government there. CATS only has interest in running Express buses to the outlying counties. The whole idea of CATS wanting to run the local transit agences in the surrounding counties is completely made up by you and does nothing to further the debate about the future of transit in our region.

[monsoon]

^Why would they go after the MTC, they have no authority to impose taxes? The people did vote for the transit tax, there is no denying that, but it was sold to them under false pretenses too. They were led to believe, by CATS and others that passing the tax would mean the 2030 plan would be built out. Now here we are 3 years later, nothing has been built and CATS says they need significantly more money to build anything else. The 1/2 cent tax is completely consumed by operations. This is the Triangle's future BTW. If CATS can't build trains with the 1/2 cent transit tax, then the TTA can't do it either. As I said earlier in this topic, one of them is wrong.

[InitialD]

They were led to believe, by CATS and others that passing the tax would mean the 2030 plan would be built out. Now here we are 3 years later, nothing has been built and CATS says they need significantly more money to build anything else. The 1/2 cent tax is completely consumed by operations. This is the Triangle's future BTW. If CATS can't build trains with the 1/2 cent transit tax, then the TTA can't do it either.

[staffer]

..... The people did vote for the transit tax, there is no denying that, but it was sold to them under false pretenses too. They were led to believe, by CATS and others that passing the tax would mean the 2030 plan would be built out. Now here we are 3 years later, nothing has been built and CATS says they need significantly more money to build anything else.

[staffer]

The 1/2 cent tax is completely consumed by operations. This is the Triangle's future BTW. If CATS can't build trains with the 1/2 cent transit tax, then the TTA can't do it either. As I said earlier in this topic, one of them is wrong.

[monsoon]

There is no proposal that the TTA can build a regional rail system with a 1/2% sales tax. ...

[DOLCE&GABBANA]

^ as if ridership is the only measure of success (it's not). If Atlanta had things figured out, why did they send a delegation to visit Charlotte last year?

Anyway, this topic should be locked as the bill passed the State Senate's second reading with no objections by Clodfelter. This bill has been touted as a bill for the Triangle, but it may affect the Charlotte metro, as Cabarrus County has it's eyes set on the 1/4 cent option to fund the Lynx Blue Line extension into Concord, which despite what a few posters have said here, has an excellent chance of being funded by the feds. I hope other counties take a hard look at using the 1/4 cent option to extend bus and rail lines to Gaston, York, Iredell, Union.

[staffer]

There was never one in Charlotte either. You completely miss the point.

[monsoon]

^Oh really. lol

I am surprised you say this, especially since you claimed on this forum you were involved with the following Traingle "blue ribbon" transit study and this report was used as the holy grail by Triangle transit people to convince the NC Legislature to allow the legislation for the new 1/2 cent transit tax. I am referring to the Special Transit Advisory Commission. I put the link here because I don't hide behind pointless strawman arguments. Anyone can go read it. From the executive summary it says this:

"Rail Investments:...

The regional system is anchored by rail service

that connects the region