Downtown Raleigh parking

[RaleighRob]

When I am forced to endure Glenwood South (thanks to "friends"), parking becomes a bit more difficult. In order to park reasonably close, I generally just give up and find a parking deck or something.

My little trick for dealing with Glenwood South during busy times (ie, fri and sat nites) is to figure out which block the place I'm going to on Glenwood is...park on Boylan in the same block, then cross over on foot using a side street.

For example, if the place I'm going to is say, at 350 Glenwood Ave, I'd park on the 300 block of N. Boylan...park, cross over on whichever side street is at that block (I think Lane St in this case), and voila, I'm there. Much less stressful than dealing with actually driving on Glenwood.

[ncwebguy]

I have the same plan as Raleigh Rob. The lots on West Street always had a space open too and were a short block away from the heart of Glenwood South. This even worked on the night the Hurricanes won the Stanley Cup! With West at North now under construction, that option will have fewer spaces. If it is warm enough, I'll bike over . I don't remember the last time I drove on Glenwood after 10pm on any night of the week.

This is why the city needs a late night trolley to circulate visitors throughout downtown from City Market through F Street, the Warehouse District and Glenwood. The showtime trolley stops running right when nightlife is picking up. Things will have to get a lot worse before the no-funistas will let that happen though. Even fixed CAT bus routes stop around 11.

[ncwebguy]

Slate finally discovers Dr. Shoup and the High Cost of Free Parking.

Actually it is from an upcoming book, but at least the idea that "parking = wasted space" is getting more coverage.

[ncwebguy]

The city is ready to test the new parking meters next month. The locations will be the 200 block of West Hargett (Nash Square across from the government complex) and the 2200 block of Hillsborough (Somewhere near NC State).

I hope the machines are a hit. They will allow for cashless transactions -- no fumbling for coins! Make it easier to pay for exactly how much time you want. Reduce the sidewalk clutter and maintenance of individual parking meters. Reduce meter patroling by remotely alerting the meter maids when a space is not paid for. The data collected can tell determine how long spaces are occupied and empty. This could allow for "variable" pricing in the future, to recommend charging more or less to stay in line with demand. All this adds up to another sign that Raleigh is ready for the changing needs of the 21st century.

There should be some sign so that parkers don't think it is now free parking since there isn't a meter there.

[ChiefJoJo]

These sound similar to the system in Portland (OR).. they have one station per block, accepts cards or cash, is digital (programmable for variable pricing), and best of all runs on solar power... if Portland can use solar, we certianly can as well.

[ncwebguy]

There already is a similar system in Durham in the parking lot near the Nasher museum. I don't know if it runs on solar power, but there is only one station for a row of parking spots.

The Duke/Nasher box prints tickets and requires them to be displayed on the car's dashboard vs. Raleigh's system that keeps track of the parking space internally.

I don't know if solar is an option on north side of Nash Square due to the larger trees there. It might require more power for data transmission, etc. but if box can get by with solar power there, I hope the city considers it.

[DPK]

1. Affix piece of cardboard to meter solar panel w/ duck tape.
   
2. ???!
   
3. Profit w/ free parking (until the meter maid rolls around).
   

Note this is just a joke, not to be taken seriously, hehe.

[ChiefJoJo]

Saw this WRAL story on the new parking stations. You can see the new stations in the video and they are indeed solar! Looks just like the Portland units IIRC, maybe even the same manufacturer.

[orulz]

The lot behind Exploris (or, what used to be exploris) at the corner of Morgan & Person has had a similar system for years. I'm not a big fan; every time I've parked there, there has been a huge line of people waiting to pay for their parking. The problem is, authorizing the credit cards takes a long time, and there is only one pay station for a bunch of parking spaces.

If it works in Portland than it can probably work here too, but I'm just a bit skeptical. There are some drawbacks to the move towards a "cashless" society, and the dependence on a working, fast, always available network connection in order to conduct any transactions whatsoever is one of them, particularly when we're talking about automated units like this that will supposedly be numerous and also be exposed to the elements

Plunk in quarter, twist knob on the meter right next to your car, walk away... has a certain elegance to it.

Oh well, maybe I'm just mired in the 20th century.

[DPK]

There's also been a digital pay lot on Hillsborough Street between Silvia's Pizza (Brueggers building), and the wall with the giant mural (I <3 NY Pizza building) on it for years.

[ChiefJoJo]

The city wants your feedback on downtown parking issues.

For the past several months a consulting team has been working with City staff and the Downtown Parking Task Force

[DPK]

I'm heading out to the IMAX tomorrow night and have a dilemma. I want to park in the Wilmington Street Station parking deck at 4:30pm and will be there until about 7:30pm. Now the deck charges a dollar for every half hour until 7pm. If I leave at 7:30 will I get charged for the hours before then? Is there an attendant there after 7?

I only ask because I know it's possible to pull this [free parking stunt] at some places around Raleigh and am just weighing my options. I usually park in the Alexander deck but never have parked in the Station deck.

[Jones_]

I'm heading out to the IMAX tomorrow night and have a dilemma. I want to park in the Wilmington Street Station parking deck at 4:30pm and will be there until about 7:30pm. Now the deck charges a dollar for every half hour until 7pm. If I leave at 7:30 will I get charged for the hours before then? Is there an attendant there after 7?

I only ask because I know it's possible to pull this [free parking stunt] at some places around Raleigh and am just weighing my options. I usually park in the Alexander deck but never have parked in the Station deck.

I am not sure about the Wilmington Deck but know it works in the Wake County Deck and Moore Square Deck.

[ChiefJoJo]

The City of Raleigh is seeking comments from citizens regarding downtown parking issues. A public input forum will be held on Aug. 26 from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. in the city council chamber on the second floor of the Avery C. Upchurch Government Complex, 222 W. Hargett St.

The consultant has been working with City staff and the City

[ChiefJoJo]

The downtown parking forum was Tuesday night, and it seems like most of their recommendations are pretty good. It means that you will soon be paying to park on the street... which is exactly what we need for the most expensive real estate in the city (supply/demand). Plus, people will start using the decks, especially the retail employees who shouldn't be on the street anyway. I hadn't realized just how much private parking there is downtown, I think it was 10k spaces. The city is going to try to come up with ways to partner with the priavte owners to open up new space to save us from more huge deck construction (the last thing we need).

[Jones_]

That article linked to about Jacksonville(somewhere here on UP) notes that one of the keys to our downtown success is free on-street parking. I am not well versed in the pros and cons but thought I'd mention that observation on their part anyway.

[Gard]

^

Some great proposals there. I was going to post before I read the article that they really need more and better signage directing people to the parking decks, but they have that covered too . Another thing I would like to add is they should reduce, or even eliminate parking fees for the decks, which can be paid for by the gain in parking fees from the street. Another thing they could do is charge parking deck fees during peak hours and after a certain time of day, make them free. I also believe that if they are intent on keeping fees for the parking decks that they work with downtown businesses that don't have their own parking for employees already to provide cards or something else that allow these employees to park (in the parking decks, not the street) for free. Some might argue that we shouldn't give employers anything, but I argue that its not the employee's fault either that the employer won't step up and I don't think that the employee should pay for their employer's stupidity. The fees for downtown workers could also be covered by an annual fee of some sort on downtown businesses.

[dmccall]

Yep. Instead of picking at people who generously came downtown, make the parking free and publicize where the free parking in the decks is (this is not being done). Otherwise, people will opt to work, live, and play in the suburbs. What downtown needs to do is convince people in the suburbs that it is EASIER to do things there. Parking meters are a bratty, offputting nuisance.

[RaleighRob]

^Agreed. I'm always turned off by having to pay to park on nights or weekends. That's just lame. If anything, the decks just need to be advertised more so folks can find them, and they can taut the benefits (lighting, security) to get people to pay for them. (That is, for the private decks...I'd also rather keep the city/county ones free.)

Taking away the ability to street park for free on nights and weekends is going to be a deterrent from many coming in from the burbs...especially the younger ones who'd rather spend that extra couple of bucks on food and drink.

And the "special event" parking rate of $7 is insane...particularly when you're not even going to that "special event" in the first place!

And yeah, I know we should be encouraging people to not drive as much and use buses and shuttles and such...but those need to be improved first, then we can talk about raising parking rates. We still don't have a really decent shuttle/trolley connecting all the dots of downtown yet.

[Jones_]

When it comes to fair share of facilities, I think of those massive expressways and four-lane roads in the 'burbs as being counter balanced by reduced parking rates and free evening parking all over downtown. I understand the high-cost of providing these things for free but I think the uptick in business activity provides enough property tax value uptick to support the cost of making the parking cheap or free at times. It is the exact same logic behind free parking at strip shopping centers...nobody would go there if if you had to take a time card or feed a meter while at Food Lion .Dana does a good job at pointing out finicky American attitudes on the subject...this attitude seems to transcend political boundaries even. Again, Jacksonville identified parking meters as a deterrent to a successful downtown and lauded our free street parking.

[ChiefJoJo]

Another thing I would like to add is they should reduce, or even eliminate parking fees for the decks, which can be paid for by the gain in parking fees from the street. Another thing they could do is charge parking deck fees during peak hours and after a certain time of day, make them free. I also believe that if they are intent on keeping fees for the parking decks that they work with downtown businesses that don't have their own parking for employees already to provide cards or something else that allow these employees to park (in the parking decks, not the street) for free. Some might argue that we shouldn't give employers anything, but I argue that its not the employee's fault either that the employer won't step up and I don't think that the employee should pay for their employer's stupidity. The fees for downtown workers could also be covered by an annual fee of some sort on downtown businesses.

First, the decks are limited, in terms of what they can charge because there are debt models that must be met to repay the construction loan and operating costs for staffing, ventilation, what have you. This was mentioned with the convention center deck (I think the U/G one under F-St), where the construction costs were quite high... so high that the parking rates will be higher there as a result.

The employees or employers can buy monthy deck passes, or if they work at a bar, they can perhaps use the decks at night when they are free.

Yep. Instead of picking at people who generously came downtown, make the parking free and publicize where the free parking in the decks is (this is not being done). Otherwise, people will opt to work, live, and play in the suburbs. What downtown needs to do is convince people in the suburbs that it is EASIER to do things there. Parking meters are a bratty, off-putting nuisance.

The deck way-finding will improve. The draft report has examples of the kinds of signing that the city could use. I like a large "P" with a circle around it that overhangs the street a bit. Simple, universal, gets the message across.

Parking isn't free in the downtown of most any medium-large city in America. Actually, no parking is free, just like no land is free. There is implicit value there, whether we realize we are paying for it or not. It's basic market economics at work. Demand is high for the real estate downtown (streets too), and decks cost a lot to construct. Yet, the street parking is the most coveted due to being curbside. If you do not price the street parking according to the market demand, you get lots of people (and retail employees!) circling the streets waiting for parking to open up while the decks remain unfilled. I am guilty of doing it too, but hundreds of cars driving around the block waiting for the next space to open is not a good form of parking management, especially for a growing downtown... plus the city may not charge for street parking in the evening, unless it is in an area that sees it's peak demans at night... perhaps Glenwood South.

Downtown isn't competing directly with the burbs, anyway. I don't see any strip malls downtown or Wal-Marts, and nobody wants them either. That is the whole point. Downtown, you have a place where you can walk and see people, galleries, unique buildings, happenings; a place that's got some life and energy developing that you cannot see or feel anywhere else in Raleigh, period. That's why people come downtown, and I suspect they won't mind paying a couple of bucks for it.

Let's flip Dana's argument on its head. My argument is don't try to force a suburban "free" (not really) parking model on a downtown area where it doesn't fit. Instead of trying to force a continued public subsidy of parking downtown to try to "compete" with the suburbs [begin rant], we ought to make people pay 100% of the TRUE price of the constructing the unsustainable suburbs, so that downtown is on a more even playing field. That is the argument I have been making for several years now. We could probably build 5 convention centers and 10 Fayetteville Streets downtown for the price of all the roads, schools, parks, sewer lines, fire stations, and all the other hidden costs that the urban taxpayers have subsidized from their pockets to enable the suburbs to be spread all over the countryside in North Raleigh for over 30 years... a time when downtown was left for dead by this city.[/end rant]

Anyway, I think the parking proposal is perfectly reasonable.

[Jones_]

One thing I forgot to consider is whether parking downtown is "free" or paid depends on who you are counting on to support your downtown. If you are begging people to come downtown, then free is possible the answer. If your downtown is desirable and sought after location....lots of residents and all the best things to do, then that subsidy is no longer needed. In shopping centers the subsidy is provided by the property owner. In downtown the subsidy is provided by the City in its decks and on the streets. You're right Chief, its definitely not free, its all a subsidy if the user does not have to pay for it.

[Gard]

One thing I forgot to consider is whether parking downtown is "free" or paid depends on who you are counting on to support your downtown. If you are begging people to come downtown, then free is possible the answer. If your downtown is desirable and sought after location....lots of residents and all the best things to do, then that subsidy is no longer needed.

Bingo. Our downtown is not yet a "desirable and sought after location" to most people. Raleigh still has to entice people to come down there (aside from Glenwood South), so the free model works IMO. I for one will not step foot in DTR again if I have to pay for parking in the state (DTR) its in now. I can get everything I want in my immediate surroundings and park for no upfront cost, so making all parking paid for eliminates any incentive to go there and support downtown businesses.

[dmccall]

Downtown isn't competing directly with the burbs, anyway.

Best burger in Raleigh? Cameron Bar & Grill. It USED to be the Raleigh Times Bar, but since I can get an equivalent burger with free parking in front of the store, I'll go to CBG.

[ChiefJoJo]

They have to finalize the report and the city council must approve it first, but assuming they do, the recommendations will go into place. I'm sorry that some people feel so strongly about paying a couple of bucks to park in the best spaces that they would boycott downtown altogether.

The city brought in a nationally respected parking firm, and they did lots of analysis of the situation and have a good grasp on the state of parking practice, so I'm going to trust the recommendations they have made, and we'll see in a couple of years whether the chicken little's were correct or not.