Main at McBee mixed use project

[goodbye]

Bravo RiverWalker! Well said indeed. The encore was equally well written. Your case has been clearly defined and I could not agree more. Where are the voices of reason in the immediate community when they need to be heard? You would think business owners along Main Street might be discouraged by the location of this development.

[GvilleSC]

I see a problem with what you're proposing for a CVS. You hail the pedestrian as king of downtown. And, as it should be, it is. This CVS is not going to attract people in their cars. They'll drive to Rite Aid or other CVS locations for that. So, parking should not be an issue. However, hotel guests, residents, and downtown office workers are going to need a walkable option. This is for them.

Any other location that you mention due to the "lots of space" argument, might allow them to pull off a Columbia-style development with parking around it (McDonalds, or any recent Five Points development). There goes Greenville's number one asset: the pedestrian. On or off of Main, the pedestrian should still be the most important element.

[gman430]

Bravo RiverWalker! Well said indeed. The encore was equally well written. Your case has been clearly defined and I could not agree more. Where are the voices of reason in the immediate community when they need to be heard? You would think business owners along Main Street might be discouraged by the location of this development.

Why would business owners be discouraged by a mixed use development that brings more people downtown and adds to the pedestrian vibe on the heart of Main Street? Wouldn't bringing more people downtown possibly add to their business seeing how they're not competing with CVS? If I was a business owner or even a resident living downtown, i'd be happy with this development not disappointed. There is currently no pharmacy in the downtown area and this would fill a missing gap. Oh and sorry I misunderstood you riverwalker. That's my bad.

[krazeeboi]

Interesting discussion here. I understand RiverWalker's position, but I do think there is a place for a CVS on Main. We've got a Rite-Aid on the southern end of Tryon and a CVS on the northern end of Tryon in uptown Charlotte and we've had no problems, except wishing that they had extended business hours. As far as an off-Main location with some dedicated spaces behind or beside the building, there's nothing necessarily wrong with that (that's the case for McBee Station and the Palmetto Bank, two great developments)--one could even say it's a necessity in downtowns without heavy mass-transit usage--and maybe another drugstore will see that as a possibility in the not-too-distant future. It's very much possible to make some concessions for cars in those areas (some developments do it much better than others admittedly) and still give preeminence to the pedestrian.

[gman430]

I see a problem with what you're proposing for a CVS. You hail the pedestrian as king of downtown. And, as it should be, it is. This CVS is not going to attract people in their cars. They'll drive to Rite Aid or other CVS locations for that. So, parking should not be an issue. However, hotel guests, residents, and downtown office workers are going to need a walkable option. This is for them.

Any other location that you mention due to the "lots of space" argument, might allow them to pull off a Columbia-style development with parking around it (McDonalds, or any recent Five Points development). There goes Greenville's number one asset: the pedestrian. On or off of Main, the pedestrian should still be the most important element.

I agree 100%. All one has to do is look at the McDonalds just past the downtown library for proof of what you just said. Or better yet, look at the Rite Aid and new Waffle House on Stone Avenue.

[Danmire]

This CVS is not going to attract people in their cars.

I do believe this CVS has a drive thru as well unless it's been modified

[btoy]

Apparently I am the only subscriber to this list who does NOT want to see a major chain like CVS on Main Street downtown. Such businesses do very well on suburban street corners and strip malls and simply cheapen a unique Main Street setting such as we enjoy in the downtown area. Every CVS/Walgreens/etc. that I have visited in an urban setting was crap. As far as I am concerned this is the equivalent of having a Waffle House replace the now demolished Woolworth's. The type of retail business that thrives on a Main Street and brings value to the downtown environment is a one-of-a-kind, destination or boutique type of store, preferably with a local owner. The closest to Main Street that I would like to see a CVS would be McBee Place, if at all. Such a location would be within walking distance for downtown residents but would not destroy the unique shopping experience that IS downtown Greenville. My office is downtown and I shop at the local businesses there as often as I can. I might add that, even though I actually prefer Dunkin Donuts over Krispy Kreme (with the exception of stores that were operated badly by Kainos Group, with stale donuts and poor service), I for one am glad that the DD project at the edge of Piazza Bergamo died before it became a reality. It's a matter of understanding the demographic that is attracted to a high-value business proposition such as is presented by downtown Greenville. Some on this discussion have already argued against the cash-for-gold enterprise that opened recently. Would you want to put up a Red Roof Inn up the street from the Westin Poinsett? I do not perceive Dunkin Donuts OR CVS as being the same level of quality as we want to attract to the Main Street shopping district. I love downtown Greenville, and I don't want to see it cheapened with that type of enterprise. Just my $0.02 worth.

Have you been to the "Cash for Gold" business you refer to? I think you are talking about Blair Jewelers and their collection of classic guitars for sale inside really makes them worthy of being on main street. I thought it was pretty cool to see a 1931 Martin Tenor for sale.

[goodbye]

They have recently changed their image from the initial "cash for gold" store to an interesting guitar shop.

[GvilleSC]

I do believe this CVS has a drive thru as well unless it's been modified

People using the drive thru pharmacy aren't going to circle the block continuously and create the traffic mayhem that is being suggested. People in their cars are not going to be attracted for inside shopping. The in-store business is going to come from pedestrians.

[btoy]

Whoa, pal. Let's try to keep the straw men out of this discussion. Did I say I was against economic development that adds jobs? Did I say that the city should (or even could) prevent CVS from locating downtown? The answer is NO to both questions. So, now that we have firmly established what I did NOT say, let me expand on what I DID say.

I am in favor of development, but not just ANY development for the sake of development itself. Development should be in keeping with the character of the types of businesses that have worked and still seem to work well in the Main Street environment. Those are destination shops that attract curiosity and invite people to linger. What works best in downtown Greenville is pedestrian traffic. CVS is too much of a quick-stop, grab-a-few-items, in-and-out kind of a store. Patrons know what they want and they wand to get it fast. Imagine even more cars circling Main Street while drivers look for a parking space that they can pull into for just a couple of minutes while they grab a bottle of cough medicine and a pack of butts (get the connection, eh?). Speaking solely in terms of the kind of traffic a CVS would bring, you might as well put in a McDonalds or a Kwikee Mart type of place. Those patrons don't linger.

Meanwhile I clearly recall saying that I would prefer to see a CVS at McBee Station or in some similar nearby location, i.e., just a couple of blocks off Main Street and convenient to both foot and automotive traffic. From there it would serve downtown residents and employees just as well, yet it would be able to handle the parking and traffic that a CVS would require.

Allow me to provide an example from my own experience. In the town where I grew up, a large CVS opened in a former five-and-dime-store location in the dead center of town. While on-street parking was very limited, there was a town parking lot in back with good access to all the storefronts on the block.

After a short while, one began to notice an increasing number of cars circling the lot as drivers waited for spaces to open up close to the CVS. This type of traffic became problematic for the customers of several nearby fine dining establishments that had been a mainstay of the town center business. Over time, a number of those restaurants gave up and closed, due in no small part to the difficulty their patrons had in finding parking spaces.

As in Greenville, those restaurants had attracted the type of patrons who liked to linger in the town center, walk around and visit the unique local shops that were nearby. As the restaurants and small shops were squeezed out, they were replaced by more grab-and-go business that, eventually, turned the town center into the equivalent of a strip mall, burdened by traffic but no longer an attraction to be savored and appreciated for the atmosphere. I would be deeply saddened to see this same type of evolution take place on Main Street here.

So, yes, it would be great to have a CVS in the central business district, not in the prime Main Street area but an off-Main location instead (or off South Main). A couple of possibilities come to mind immediately. I would love, for instance, to see development on the corner of Washington and W. Broad, where Chuck Orr of Chuck's Bumper and Glass has had a For Sale sign out for several years. A CVS in that location might be another leap forward in the revitalization of the West Washington area. There's also the property on Falls Street where a former Bank of America sits vacant, part of a larger area off the east end of the Liberty Bridge that is ripe for development. Now that we now the USPS is going to give up the nearby facility, and it won't be used for the new federal court house, I hope to see development begun on this entire block, bordered also by Calvin Street and Webster Street and possibly even up to Vivian Street. (By the way, has anyone else noticed that Google Maps shows a Wal-Mart Supercenter planted right in the middle of Webster Street? See http://tinyurl.com/yfvq95x. Do they know something we don't know?) Meanwhile, South Academy Street will continue to see growth in the area around the Kroc Center, which also might attract a CVS type of store.

(Both the Chucks Bumper lot and the Falls Street area may deserve their own discussion threads someday; I just bring them up here as illustrations of nearby alternatives to a Main Street CVS location.)

Now, getting back to the property at Main and McBee. That lot does need to be filled with thriving business, and soon, but I would be very disappointed to see a CVS in that location, or anywhere else on Main between Academy Street on the north and the stadium in the West End.

Chuck's site is in an area being rezoned RDV, and if I remember correctly no alcohol sales are allowed in that zoning and CVS is adding beer and wine sales to their stores. But I could not see CVS on Washington anyways because the train station almost makes it a dead end and limits the amount of through traffic.

[gs3]

Riverwalker, you make great points and I agree with most of them. Very well said. Greenville's downtown, while not to the level of tourism found in Asheville, does have a demographic unlike most other Southern cities. Greenville doesn't have an average downtown like most....it is a bit more hybrid tourist / upper end / event oriented. Downtown needs something like CVS, but a block off Main would be better. No parking lot, still streetfront, but a block or so off Main. Unfortunately, given that we have that tragic Qwikees place, CVS will seem like a jewel. If a convenience place were to ever be out of place, Qwikees jumps to mind before CVS....at least CVS will have corporate standards.

[btoy]

Interesting discussion here. I understand RiverWalker's position, but I do think there is a place for a CVS on Main. We've got a Rite-Aid on the southern end of Tryon and a CVS on the northern end of Tryon in uptown Charlotte and we've had no problems, except wishing that they had extended business hours. As far as an off-Main location with some dedicated spaces behind or beside the building, there's nothing necessarily wrong with that (that's the case for McBee Station and the Palmetto Bank, two great developments)--one could even say it's a necessity in downtowns without heavy mass-transit usage--and maybe another drugstore will see that as a possibility in the not-too-distant future. It's very much possible to make some concessions for cars in those areas (some developments do it much better than others admittedly) and still give preeminence to the pedestrian.

That is a good point. People who shop there aren't going to drive here to go, they are either already going to be here or live and work nearby. I could see a lot of business coming from people who work downtown, are on lunch break and stop in to get something for their headache or allergies, etc. That would keep them from having to get their car out and drive to a pharmacy elsewhere. But I think downtown can't just be some disney land for tourists to go to silly little shops where all they do is look and don't buy. We have to remember that people live and work in the area and they have money to spend too.

[goodbye]

I'd love to see a list of the so-called "silly little shops" currently open along Main Street. How many shops are open and serve the downtown population? I'll bet the number serving the downtown population far outweighs the shops open mostly for visitors/tourists.

[goodbye]

Some people may not know this, but the Publix at McBee Station has a very good pharmacy and is easily accessible to the rest of downtown.

[B&R]

Agree with GvilleSC on this one. Why would people drive to the Main Street location when there are several drug stores in easy driving distance with their own parking lots?

The Rite Aid at Main and Stone; The CVS on Wade Hampton Blvd a quarter mile from Church St; The CVS and Walgreens at East North and N. Pleasantburg Dr. are all more convenient for a quick stop for a couple of items.

The CVS on Main would benefit visitors and downtown residents and office workers. Most of them would be pedestrians.

[Greenville]

I agree with what others have said about this CVS being perfect for downtown workers, residents, and hotel guests. It is not intended for people to drive, park, and shop, as a suburban location is. It is geared toward walkers. And instead of downtown office workers, residents, and hotel guests having to get in their cars to drive to a pharmacy a mile or two away, they will now be able to walk. I know from my travels that having a CVS or Walgreens nearby my hotel is so important when wanting to make a few small purchases for my stay (bottled water, snacks, etc.). Plus, it requires walking and exploring the city a little. And for people visiting Greenville, that is always a plus.

[goodbye]

People seem to have forgotten about the Publix at McBee Station. They have a nice pharmacy and it is not nearly a mile away from Main Street. Only two easy blocks. They also have bottled water, snacks, and etc.

I am not completely opposed to the Main Street CVS (only because it will fill a vacancy that has lingered for several years), but feel the necessity to clear up the misconception that downtown office workers and residents currently are forced to drive "a mile or two away" for such amenities. That is simply not true.

[krazeeboi]

If I were a visitor staying at any one of the downtown hotels (Hyatt, Hampton Inn at RiverPlace, Westin, or Marriott Courtyard) or an employee at city hall or Wachovia Place, I'd be much more likely to take a trip to this CVS to grab a few items conveniently as opposed to the Publix at McBee Station. Also, pharmacies like CVS, Walgreens, etc. are simply more convenient to get in and out of than grocery stores. The crowds are smaller and the lines are shorter. If all I have to do is pick up some deodorant, mouthwash, and sunflower seeds, I'm going to be much more likely do so at a drugstore rather than a grocery store, whether I'm driving or walking.

[GvilleSC]

If I were a visitor staying at any one of the downtown hotels (Hyatt, Hampton Inn at RiverPlace, Westin, or Marriott Courtyard) or an employee at city hall or Wachovia Place, I'd be much more likely to take a trip to this CVS to grab a few items conveniently as opposed to the Publix at McBee Station. Also, pharmacies like CVS, Walgreens, etc. are simply more convenient to get in and out of than grocery stores. The crowds are smaller and the lines are shorter. If all I have to do is pick up some deodorant, mouthwash, and sunflower seeds, I'm going to be much more likely do so at a drugstore rather than a grocery store, whether I'm driving or walking.

You make some great points about ease of getting in and out.

[RiverWalker]

Have you been to the "Cash for Gold" business you refer to? I think you are talking about Blair Jewelers and their collection of classic guitars for sale inside really makes them worthy of being on main street. I thought it was pretty cool to see a 1931 Martin Tenor for sale.

Actually, I don't have a problem with the "cash-for-gold place," whatever it's called. I merely mentioned it to illustrate a point - apparently unsuccessfully.

[RiverWalker]

If I were a visitor staying at any one of the downtown hotels (Hyatt, Hampton Inn at RiverPlace, Westin, or Marriott Courtyard) or an employee at city hall or Wachovia Place, I'd be much more likely to take a trip to this CVS to grab a few items conveniently as opposed to the Publix at McBee Station. Also, pharmacies like CVS, Walgreens, etc. are simply more convenient to get in and out of than grocery stores. The crowds are smaller and the lines are shorter. If all I have to do is pick up some deodorant, mouthwash, and sunflower seeds, I'm going to be much more likely do so at a drugstore rather than a grocery store, whether I'm driving or walking.

I suppose it's a matter of perception and expectation. Most of the CVS stores that I've visited, even those in downtown settings, generally have but one register open, at most two, which causes lines to back up. Supermarkets, on the other hand, typically have multiple checkouts open and can add more checkers as lines form. I pop in at the Publix at McBee Station on a regular basis.

[Sonrise]

I'm currently in Denver on business, and not only is there a CVS on the 17th Street Pedestrian mall ( trendy shops/restaurants for tourists and locals) but there's a Walgreens across the street, and I'd say the overwhelming majority of the patrons are via foot traffic. I like this, just wish there was a residential component above it.

[GvilleSC]

There was mention that construction might begin in May. I've yet to see any progress. Does anyone know more?

[Greenville]

There was mention that construction might begin in May. I've yet to see any progress. Does anyone know more?

I can tell you definitively that this project will NOT begin in May.

Seriously, I have not heard anything but hope this begins soon. The CVS is going to be a great addition to downtown!

[StrangeCock]

May 2013, maybe.