Trinity Road Hotel

[CHGuy]

A large hotel has been submitted to the City of Raleigh for site plan approval.

http://www.raleighnc.gov/publication.../SP-075-09.pdf

It will have 358 rooms and two towers. One 125 feet tall and the other is 115 feet tall. It is located on Trinity Road across from the fairgrounds.

I don't know anything about it other than what I have already stated. Since they are calling it by a generic name, the owners must want to keep the hotel chain secret for the time being.

The location seems a little strange for the size of the hotel, but maybe it is something more high end close to the RBC center.

Does anyone know more about this project?

[sax184]

Raleigh- the City of Oaks and Skyscrapers in the Wrong Place?

[orulz]

I read a rumor, I think in the Business Journal, that this hotel will be built with all cash. If that is true, the developer doesn't have to deal with lenders, so as soon as the project gets its permits it will start construction.

I would prefer for something like this to go downtown, especially given the lack of hotel rooms there, but I can think of plenty of worse places than across the street from the NCSU Vet School and 1/4 mile from the planned Fairgrounds light / commuter / whatever rail station.

For a hotel, 125 feet probably means 10-12 stories, don't you think?

[DaleCooper]

Hopefully this will encourage the development of some retail on that block as the comprehensive plan suggested should happen. It's only been 10 years since the arena was built...

[PAVANC]

I'm more interested in how State is going to replace the thousands of parking spots that will be lost for football parking.

[orulz]

I'm more interested in how State is going to replace the thousands of parking spots that will be lost for football parking.

[Gard]

I'm not interested in that at all. The university won't replace the parking and shouldn't. This is a private lot already, and if the owners see fit to develop it, then great.

People will still find a way to get to the games. People find a way to get to football games at UNC, and the parking situation is much tighter there.

If it really gets tight in Raleigh, which it won't for decades, then the university can start running shuttle buses to satellite parking lots, like they do at UNC. And even if every single private parking lot is developed and closed, with the fairgrounds parking lot and the parking lots on the grounds of Carter Finley and RBC themselves, there will always be plenty of space for tailgating. Maybe a parking permit will cost more, but oh well, supply and demand.

Regarding the development itself: they actually can't build any closer to the road than they propose, because of the high voltage power lines lines that were just installed earlier this year.

[DPK]

Did anyone else notice the cemetary and two cemetary parking spots on the top of the site plan?

[rooster8]

That's one of the oddest things I've ever seen on a site plan.

[PAVANC]

First:

Did you notice I asked how "State" was going to replace the parking, not the land owner? I know the owner can do whatever they want. The comment was addressing a parking situation and what State was going to do about it, not the right to develop. I am all for some kind of development out there, even though I don't think this is the right fit.

Second:

Don't give the mass transit excuse. I'm all for density and mass tranit, but this is not the place. Taking the bus is not an option for tailgaters. For people going just to the game, I think the bus is an excellant idea, hell I wish we had some kind of rail system out there. Tailgating is part of the college game day experience for most fans. And don't give me that crap that you don't need tailgating to enjoy a football game. You guys obviously do not like tailgating, but just because you don't like something and it doesn't fit into your perfect world, doesn't make it wrong.

And please don't use Chapel Hill as an example, every college football fan knows what a horrible game day experience it is over there.

Have you ever been out there? With the vet school expanding, the fairgrounds lots shrinking, and now this, there is no where near enough parking. "Oh well, supply and demand" You've got to be kidding? You guys always rail on developers about some of the things that they do that don't fit with your idea of the "right" development. "Why not a deck instead of the suface lot?" Supply and demand maybe? That is such a cop out for people that don't like something and expect everyone else to tag along with their opinions.

You guys just don't get it.

[orulz]

Actually I've never been to a game at UNC, but I've been to plenty at Carter-Finley (though admittedly I've not had to park for the last 2 years.)

The loss of these parking spaces (not sure how many but I have a suspicion "thousands" is an overstatement) does not cause me concern. IMO tailgating and the fact that so much of the fan base is local is what makes it a great gameday experience, and losing a few parking spaces won't dent that. There is still oodles of parking within a 10-minute (1/2 mile) walk of the stadium. And even if the some of the lots 1/2 mile from the stadium get redeveloped, I have no problem asking people who get there less than an hour before kickoff to instead walk 3/4 of a mile, or even 1 mile (15-20 minutes.)

As a matter of fact I live about 1 mile from Carter Finley on a street with lots of free on-street parking that goes completely unused during games. When I go, I just walk. That doesn't ruin my experience. Far from it, in fact. It's a nice walk. If you're worried about folks who are physically disabled, the stadium already makes accommodations. People who can't deal with a 15 minute walk but aren't willing to pay for better parking are, in my opinion, the ones who "just don't get it."

Besides, most of the land near Carter-Finley is either owned by NCSU, Centennial Authority (RBC Center), or the Fairgrounds - and will likely remain as parking for the forseeable future. In addition, also within this radius, NCSU is already building a parking deck at the vet school. This deck will be mostly empty on Saturdays.

The university has much, much better things to do with its money than spend it building "replacement" parking spaces that will go completely unused 345 days a year. They don't need to do anything about the parking "situation" this development will cause, because there won't be one.

[PAVANC]

I don't think you understand. All existing parking in the area is already spoken for. State currently leases the 2 lots the hotel is to be located, as well as Cardinal Gibbons High School and issues permits for them. They are all full. The business park lots at Edwards Mill and Trinity already charges to park there and they fill up. The horse complex, flea market, student parking, and special events take care of the fairgrounds parking. The Vet School deck and paved parking is by permit only for students and faculty that use the facility. As far spending the money to build more parking, with what they charge for permits, it will not cost much at all, especially if it is just grass parking.

[JeffC]

I don't think you understand. All existing parking in the area is already spoken for. State currently leases the 2 lots the hotel is to be located, as well as Cardinal Gibbons High School and issues permits for them. They are all full. The business park lots at Edwards Mill and Trinity already charges to park there and they fill up. The horse complex, flea market, student parking, and special events take care of the fairgrounds parking. The Vet School deck and paved parking is by permit only for students and faculty that use the facility. As far spending the money to build more parking, with what they charge for permits, it will not cost much at all, especially if it is just grass parking.

[PAVANC]

I get it, I'm a season ticket holder, lifetime rights holder, I have a parking permit, and I haven't missed a game in 10 years. So please, before you say start assuming things like people's financial commitments, think before posting.

I agree that game by game people should take what they can get. But a lot of people have invested a lot of money to have a good gameday experience. When the investment was made, most people did it with tailgating in mind as much as going to the game. I know people in the Trinity and TX lots that have given a lot of money, but because of the LIMITED parking are unable to secure a permit near the stadium.

When people purchase season tickets to the Hurricanes, they expect certain things. One of those things is a giant scoreboard with bells and whistles. How do you think people would feel if they plunked down a chunk of change for season tickets and show up for a game and the Canes decided the scoreboard wasn't necessary to play the game, which it isn't. You might have a riot. People expect certain things when they make an investment like that.

My last post on the parking topic. Let's get back to the planned development.

[Jones_]

Does anyone even KNOW the actual parking numbers? It seems like the RBC Center was the primary culprit in reducing parking spaces out there. I don't remember the numbers, but am pretty sure its paved spaces is less than the unpaved ones there 15 odd years ago.

[Jones_]

Did anyone else notice the cemetary and two cemetary parking spots on the top of the site plan?

[vitaviatic]

It's a little bizarre to read complaints about 12-story buildings and the loss of a couple of hundred parking spaces in this particular neighborhood. A lot of us have been saying that, more than anywhere else in Raleigh, this area is in play. The only thing that has surprised me is that development there has gone so slow.

Let's draw two lines. The first one starts in Apex, with Holly Springs funneling into it, and traverses the Macedonia area of Cary (which is ostensibly the hottest price per square foot housing market with any appreciable amount of buildable land remaining), runs right up the US1/Beltline into North Hills (the city's biggest renewal project), on up to Wakefield and Wake Forest -- the other hot growth area for Wake County. The second line we will draw from RTP, through RDU, over to West Raleigh and NCSU, this being your main employment corridor (don't really care about downtown, assuming that downtown will fend for itself). If you let the two lines drift from the freeways they end up somewhere around Westchase and the RBC Center area. If a retail component does end up being placed north of Wade, basically you have just created a commercial "downtown" for West Raleigh, from those two lines of activity. For my money, I think 12-story structures are way understating the value of that land. I would expect to see much higher in the mid- to long-term future out there. If the TBJ is right by O's account, and this project is a cash deal -- can you imagine the market pressure on that plot of land to get buildings pushed out the ground there? And once the first couple are in -- Annie bar the door! The same pressures that brought about the Soleil Center are in play in the Westchase area, but even more pronounced because of the transportation supply (freeways) and the traffic.

The RBC is a pretty decent venue with plenty of useful life left. Carter-Finley is an outdated relic that will need to be replaced at some point, and I highly suspect that should the United Football League prove viable (and they have apparently expressed an interest in an RDU franchise, even before the stench of the Skyhawks has completely cleared... ) you may see a similar co-developed Centennial Authority stadium project for a UFL team much like the one with the NHL Hurricanes. If that happens, the whole thing gets upscaled by a factor of four and parking becomes measured by levels instead of acres.

This was one reason I was quite bullish on a Fairgrounds Station for transit. This area is going to look absolutely nothing like it looks even today -- let alone thirty years ago when some of us were growing up in the place.

[RALNATIVE]

The RBC is a pretty decent venue with plenty of useful life left. Carter-Finley is an outdated relic that will need to be replaced at some point, and I highly suspect that should the United Football League prove viable (and they have apparently expressed an interest in an RDU franchise, even before the stench of the Skyhawks has completely cleared... ) you may see a similar co-developed Centennial Authority stadium project for a UFL team much like the one with the NHL Hurricanes. If that happens, the whole thing gets upscaled by a factor of four and parking becomes measured by levels instead of acres.

[staffer]

seems to me I recal within the last year an annoucement that there would be satellite fairgrounds parking built either near the intersection of Corporate center Dr and Chapel Hill Rd, or maybe it was Nowell and Chapel Hill Rd. Or maybe it was soon to be open Edwards Mill extension and Chapel Hill Rd. can't put my hands on the article right off.

[DPK]

seems to me I recal within the last year an annoucement that there would be satellite fairgrounds parking built either near the intersection of Corporate center Dr and Chapel Hill Rd, or maybe it was Nowell and Chapel Hill Rd. Or maybe it was soon to be open Edwards Mill extension and Chapel Hill Rd. can't put my hands on the article right off.

[vitaviatic]

Speaking of the UFL, does anyone know where Raleigh stands in terms of getting a team?