PROPOSED: Harrah's/Narragansett Casino

[Lone Ranger]

they make me even less likely to vote for it (not that i ever would have). i think the chief is an idiot... trying to make it sound like RI has a lot to gain from it... while he has even more to gain from it.

Oh, I don't think he's an idiot. I think he's doing his job.

But Rhode Islanders are a stubborn bunch. That is to say, I don't think the good chief is convincing too many people. And I guess we'll see whether I'm wrong about this or not, but I don't think we're as dumb as the folks at Harrah's seem to believe.

I guess we can't blame them for trying.

[Liamlunchtray]

Oh, I don't think he's an idiot. I think he's doing his job.

But Rhode Islanders are a stubborn bunch. That is to say, I don't think the good chief is convincing too many people. And I guess we'll see whether I'm wrong about this or not, but I don't think we're as dumb as the folks at Harrah's seem to believe.

I guess we can't blame them for trying.

I dont think he's an idiot either. I think he's trying to do whats best for his people the best way he knows how. I think its complete BS that the state allows for Lincoln Park and Newport Grand to operate and yet does everything possible to keep the Narragansetts from opening a casino. I think that as long as the voters in the community OK it and it is put out to bid the Narragansetts should be able to build it. Location wise I think something North of Warwick would make more sense. From a purely location standpoint I think Pawtucket would be the best bet, but I dont really know where specifically.

[runawayjim]

I dont think he's an idiot either. I think he's trying to do whats best for his people the best way he knows how. I think its complete BS that the state allows for Lincoln Park and Newport Grand to operate and yet does everything possible to keep the Narragansetts from opening a casino. I think that as long as the voters in the community OK it and it is put out to bid the Narragansetts should be able to build it. Location wise I think something North of Warwick would make more sense. From a purely location standpoint I think Pawtucket would be the best bet, but I dont really know where specifically.

i agree that we should be able to have a casino. i don't agree that we should limit it to the narragansetts with harrahs in west warwick. i think we should be able to put it out to bid and the best deal for the state (monetarily and location) should get it. i don't htink the narragansetts should be treated any differently than trump.

[chaz200]

I dont think he's an idiot either. I think he's trying to do whats best for his people the best way he knows how. I think its complete BS that the state allows for Lincoln Park and Newport Grand to operate and yet does everything possible to keep the Narragansetts from opening a casino. I think that as long as the voters in the community OK it and it is put out to bid the Narragansetts should be able to build it. Location wise I think something North of Warwick would make more sense. From a purely location standpoint I think Pawtucket would be the best bet, but I dont really know where specifically.

I disagree about putting it out to bid. If it were a casino owned or rather operated by the state like Newport and Lincoln, although those are weird deals in and of themselves, then yes it should be put out to bid. However this is a private enterprise to be run by a private company formed by the Narragansetts and a partner, in this case Harrah's.

The amendment also does not mention Harrah's at all and also does not recognize the sovereignty of the Narragansetts which is a whole other issue.

I think the Narragansetts should have this opportunity because they have frankly been "screwed" as an Indian tribe for decades. Some of it their own doing and some not.

I also don't see this as a bad thing for Rhode Island we already have two casinos that frankly stink and the sweetheart deals that have gone into those are awful. It would be nice to get some of the "big money" away from the lottery commision and their legislative cronies.

Here is the question:

"AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE (RESORT CASINO IN WEST WARWICK TO BE PRIVATELY OWNED AND OPERATED BY A RHODE ISLAND BUSINESS ENTITY ESTABLISHED BY THE NARRAGANSETT INDIAN TRIBE AND ITS CHOSEN PARTNER) (Section 1 of Article XIV of the

Constitution)"

And here is the admendment:

"A new Section 23 shall be added to and included in Article VI of the Constitution to read as follows:

Section 23. Resort Casino - - Notwithstanding sections 15 and 22 of this Article, and provided that a majority of the electors of the Town of West Warwick have voted to approve this amendment, the establishment of a resort casino and games located therein is authorized in the Town of West Warwick. The resort casino shall be privately owned and privately operated by a business entity established pursuant to Rhode Island law by the Narragansett Indian Tribe and its chosen partner, which entity shall be: (i) legally distinct and separate from the Narragansett Indian Tribe, (ii) subject to the laws of the state of Rhode Island, including regulation and taxation, and (iii) required in its organizing documents to expressly waive any sovereign immunity relating to any and all matters of the resort casino, including compliance with and enforcement of the laws of the state of Rhode Island, and the regulation and taxation thereof. The per annum tax rate shall be

established by the general assembly with all of such tax proceeds to be dedicated to property-tax relief, as prescribed by statute."

[runawayjim]

I disagree about putting it out to bid. If it were a casino owned or rather operated by the state like Newport and Lincoln, although those are weird deals in and of themselves, then yes it should be put out to bid. However this is a private enterprise to be run by a private company formed by the Narragansetts and a partner, in this case Harrah's.

The amendment also does not mention Harrah's at all and also does not recognize the sovereignty of the Narragansetts which is a whole other issue.

I think the Narragansetts should have this opportunity because they have frankly been "screwed" as an Indian tribe for decades. Some of it their own doing and some not.

I also don't see this as a bad thing for Rhode Island we already have two casinos that frankly stink and the sweetheart deals that have gone into those are awful. It would be nice to get some of the "big money" away from the lottery commision and their legislative cronies.

the amendment mentions "their chosen partner", which according to them and their commercials is widely known as harrahs. that's not going to change and i bet they even have a contract with harrah's already.

i don't think they deserve the opportunity anymore than any other party wanting to build a casino (such as trump, whose deal was supposedly better for the state than the harragansetts).

what stinks about the casinos in CT? i've been there. they're casinos. they don't have poker tables because they coudln't make money off them. that's the only thing that separates them from casinos in places like atlantic city or vegas. what makes you think this casino would be any better than those 2? also, all the money the state gets from this will end up going to increase police force because of increased crime adn increased state funding for gambling addiction.

yes, i agree that we should be able to have more casinos because of the 2 we already have, but i don't think that the harragansetts deserve a sweet deal like the amendment that's up for ballot. i think they should be treated like a private enterprise and not a sovereign nation. isn't there sovereignity questionable as well?

[Cotuit]

"AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE (RESORT CASINO IN WEST WARWICK TO BE PRIVATELY OWNED AND OPERATED BY A RHODE ISLAND BUSINESS ENTITY ESTABLISHED BY THE NARRAGANSETT INDIAN TRIBE AND ITS CHOSEN PARTNER) (Section 1 of Article XIV of the

Constitution)"

And here is the admendment:

"A new Section 23 shall be added to and included in Article VI of the Constitution to read as follows:

Section 23. Resort Casino - - Notwithstanding sections 15 and 22 of this Article, and provided that a majority of the electors of the Town of West Warwick have voted to approve this amendment, the establishment of a resort casino and games located therein is authorized in the Town of West Warwick. The resort casino shall be privately owned and privately operated by a business entity established pursuant to Rhode Island law by the Narragansett Indian Tribe and its chosen partner, which entity shall be: (i) legally distinct and separate from the Narragansett Indian Tribe, (ii) subject to the laws of the state of Rhode Island, including regulation and taxation, and (iii) required in its organizing documents to expressly waive any sovereign immunity relating to any and all matters of the resort casino, including compliance with and enforcement of the laws of the state of Rhode Island, and the regulation and taxation thereof. The per annum tax rate shall be established by the general assembly with all of such tax proceeds to be dedicated to property-tax relief, as prescribed by statute."

It's all far too ambiguous. All the open ended things in this should be answered before we vote. And I don't see the fairness or legitimacy of writing into the Constitution an out for one tribe business and their mystery "partner" and one town. If we're going to legalize gaming in the state by private industry, then legalize it and regulate it. This machination and back room dealing is sickening, and Rhode Island should be moving beyond it. It all makes me want to move.

[yossarian]

the amendment mentions "their chosen partner", which according to them and their commercials is widely known as harrahs. that's not going to change and i bet they even have a contract with harrah's already.

i don't think they deserve the opportunity anymore than any other party wanting to build a casino (such as trump, whose deal was supposedly better for the state than the harragansetts).

what stinks about the casinos in CT? i've been there. they're casinos. they don't have poker tables because they coudln't make money off them. that's the only thing that separates them from casinos in places like atlantic city or vegas. what makes you think this casino would be any better than those 2? also, all the money the state gets from this will end up going to increase police force because of increased crime adn increased state funding for gambling addiction.

yes, i agree that we should be able to have more casinos because of the 2 we already have, but i don't think that the harragansetts deserve a sweet deal like the amendment that's up for ballot. i think they should be treated like a private enterprise and not a sovereign nation. isn't there sovereignity questionable as well?

I am sympathetic to the "it should have gone out for bid" argument, but I think you

[runawayjim]

I am sympathetic to the "it should have gone out for bid" argument, but I think you

[Liamlunchtray]

I think the Narragansetts should have this opportunity because they have frankly been "screwed" as an Indian tribe for decades. Some of it their own doing and some not.

This is the only reason I support a Casino period. I endorse it as a means of making amends to native peoples. I oppose slots and the like at Newport and Lincoln, but I think that the Narragansetts should be able to do pretty much whatever they damn well please when it comes to enterprise. I would prefer it if they owned it 100%, but obviously they do not have the cash to do that. I would also be fully in favor of them having a tax free smoke shop or something to that effect.

[Cotuit]

This is the only reason I support a Casino period. I endorse it as a means of making amends to native peoples.

So will us "non-native" people (non-native in quotes because last time I checked, I was born on this continent) recieve amends from the tribe for all the gambling addiction they will be feeding? Using something that has so many socially reprehensible traits to right some wrong that someone centuries ago wrought on the tribe just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If we're talking about righting wrongs, frankly I'd rather see a federal cash pay out to right the wrong, then we can all get on with our lives as one American people, not us and them, perpetrators and victims.

When it comes to this casino, the Harrahgansetts are a business, plain and simple and should be treated as such. Or maybe as a gay person I can open a casino to right the wrongs perpetuated against my people.

[runawayjim]

When it comes to this casino, the Harrahgansetts are a business, plain and simple and should be treated as such. Or maybe as a gay person I can open a casino to right the wrongs perpetuated against my people.

damn... it sucks being a heterosexual white middle class male... no wrongs against me or my people... but i am 1/16 or 1/32 asian... maybe that'll work for me.

[Cotuit]

but i am 1/16 or 1/32 asian... maybe that'll work for me.

There you go, you can amend the constitution and open a casino.

[jencoleslaw]

hey, i can trump you all as a woman. We're talking thousands of all the years of being oppressed here. and we can't even get an amendment, dammit.

[runawayjim]

hey, i can trump you all as a woman. We're talking thousands of all the years of being oppressed here. and we can't even get an amendment, dammit.

not to keep going off topic.. but wasn't the woman's right to vote an amendment?

[jencoleslaw]

not to keep going off topic.. but wasn't the woman's right to vote an amendment?

i was thinking of the last several decades of Equal Rights Amendment attempts.

BTW, the ad for the indians says "property tax reduction." but i'm from CT and i don't remember any property tax reduction when Foxwoods came to town (but to be fair we lived about 20 miles away, so maybe we were out of the loop.) Is there anything that shows the beneficial effects of the casinos in CT?

[runawayjim]

i was thinking of the last several decades of Equal Rights Amendment attempts.

BTW, the ad for the indians says "property tax reduction." but i'm from CT and i don't remember any property tax reduction when Foxwoods came to town (but to be fair we lived about 20 miles away, so maybe we were out of the loop.) Is there anything that shows the beneficial effects of the casinos in CT?

they pay for uconn. that's the beneficial effect of the sun and foxwoods. i've heard from people who live around them. they aren't very happy with them. they hate the extra traffic. what was once a very quiet part of CT has a lot more traffic and a lot more crime. i don't think their property taxes decreased much, if at all.

[gregw]

they pay for uconn. that's the beneficial effect of the sun and foxwoods. i've heard from people who live around them. they aren't very happy with them. they hate the extra traffic. what was once a very quiet part of CT has a lot more traffic and a lot more crime. i don't think their property taxes decreased much, if at all.

That exactly matches my grandmother's experience who lived in North Stonington. Nonstop cars and busses going to Foxwoods pretty much 24/7. The vast majority of the patrons who I have observed at Foxwoods -- many of them seniors on fixed incomes -- I would say have little real disposible income to play with. A friend of mine who worked security at Foxwoods came across a guy in his car who blew his brains out after getting creamed at some game. Pretty ugly stuff if you ask me.

[runawayjim]

That exactly matches my grandmother's experience who lived in North Stonington. Nonstop cars and busses going to Foxwoods pretty much 24/7. The vast majority of the patrons who I have observed at Foxwoods -- many of them seniors on fixed incomes -- I would say have little real disposible income to play with. A friend of mine who worked security at Foxwoods came across a guy in his car who blew his brains out after getting creamed at some game. Pretty ugly stuff if you ask me.

at least one couple was arrested for leaving their young children in their car in the parking garage at mohegan sun while they went in to gamble.

[jencoleslaw]

i wrote a short magazine piece about my one trip to Foxwoods--if i can find it in my files i'll post it...

[Frankie811]

what stinks about the casinos in CT? i've been there. they're casinos. they don't have poker tables because they coudln't make money off them. that's the only thing that separates them from casinos in places like atlantic city or vegas.

I don't know where you got this from, but both Foxwoods & Mohegan indeed have poker tables, and have for years. They even have poker tournaments broadcasted on ESPN. But the way it's set up is players play against themselves in groups, or something like that. I think the casinos only charge an entrance fee, or something like that. I don't play poker so I don't know all the details.

[KRC]

I don't know where you got this from, but both Foxwoods & Mohegan indeed have poker tables, and have for years. They even have poker tournaments broadcasted on ESPN. But the way it's set up is players play against themselves in groups, or something like that. I think the casinos only charge an entrance fee, or something like that. I don't play poker so I don't know all the details.

I know! Downstairs in what used to be the non-smoking casino is nothing but poker now. I have to admit, I'm a bit of a player and I found the whole environment to be somewhat stimulating. You kind of get caught up in the whole atmosphere.

[runawayjim]

I don't know where you got this from, but both Foxwoods & Mohegan indeed have poker tables, and have for years. They even have poker tournaments broadcasted on ESPN. But the way it's set up is players play against themselves in groups, or something like that. I think the casinos only charge an entrance fee, or something like that. I don't play poker so I don't know all the details.

they must be new. as recently as 2 years ago, they did not have poker. yes, they did originally, but i know for a fact mohegan got rid of theirs and i think foxwoods did the same shortly after.

i used to spend every weekend at mohegan sun and i've got friends who used to be there several times a week. they didn't gamble but they knew about any changes.

[yossarian]

i am of the opinion that any tribe doing any sort of business like this in any state should be treated like a private business when most of the profits benefit them solely.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but that is not the law. Indian tribes have inherent powers deriving from a sovereign status. Their claim to sovereignty long pre-dates that of our own government.

[runawayjim]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but that is not the law. Indian tribes have inherent powers deriving from a sovereign status. Their claim to sovereignty long pre-dates that of our own government.

except when "tribes" quickly form together to make some money through the building of casinos. if they didn't try to make money off some pretty questionable vices (gambling addiction and smoking for instance), there wouldn't be much of an issue. but they do little to nothing to help alleviate these problems, nevermind all the extra crime that they don't do anything to stop. if they weren't so greedy, i wouldn't really care. i'm not against a casino, i'm against this particular casino.

[Frankie811]

they must be new. as recently as 2 years ago, they did not have poker. yes, they did originally, but i know for a fact mohegan got rid of theirs and i think foxwoods did the same shortly after.

I haven't been to Mohegan's for about 1 1/2 - 2 years and there was a poker parlor off to the side, not on the main floor. If you drove into the bottom level of the 3 or 4 level attached garage and walked in the main large room you'd turned right and walked about 1-2 minutes and the room was on your right. I don't know if it was the Summer or Winter entrance or whatever, but it was near the staircase you had to take to get upstairs to check your cards for daily prizes.