Division / Wealthy and ICCF

[MJLO]

Is there a possibility if the project is successful and there is more demand that the project could see Infill in those parking lots?

[Veloise]

Link to site plans

LinkedIn has a group called LinkedUp Grand Rapids. It's running a discussion about "what does DT GR need?" and every other comment is about parking: More parking, free parking, parking by the door, parking within convenient jogging distance, parking closer/more convenient than the hike from a mall anchor.

Presumably the applicant has complied with the parking requirements in our current (form-based, 21stC) zoning ordinance.

When I was on staff at another major Michigan city, we'd have to sit on applicants to provide sufficient parking (and not for Smarties or Mini Coopers). Nowadays it seems that the applicants want to cram as many spaces as possible into sites of dubious grade and groundwater impact. "Hey, if you revised this and provided only the 30 spaces required by the ordinance, perhaps you could provide the 75' buffer-from-wetland on the 20 extra spaces."

Edited January 11, 2012 by Veloise

[GR_Urbanist]

The problem I have is that it doesnt create any real density just percieved density. If arent any people who cares if the parking is hidden...

Well yes it isnt "use all of the land for buildings" desity, which would be the optimum. However, it is "zero setback, multi-story, and hide the parking lots" density which is the ideal in a place like GR, where if you look at St. Marys to the North and that Family Dollar strip mall to the south, you will see where no one even cared to consider such an idea.

I would imagine that until that area sees a better critical mass of residents that live and work fairly close by, this will be the only way to pull something like this off.

Wealthy and Division is still a very underpopulated, auto-centeric, and shabby area right now.

Edited January 11, 2012 by GR_Urbanist

[Veloise]

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2012/01/family_fare_supermarket_on_cas.html

"Staff at the Family Fare told customers this week that business has been slow at the store, and speculated its location at the rear of the shopping center it has anchored drew less exposure..."

Hey, Spartan Stores, how about a new store location that has plenty of exposure and nearby rooftops?

[andrew.w]

The problem I have is that it doesnt create any real density just percieved density. If arent any people who cares if the parking is hidden...

At the very least they have designed it in a way that buildings could still be built on Sheldon if demand in that area becomes great enough. They could even be buildings that line small parking ramps if the parking demand is still high.

[Quercus]

The great thing about the ICCF is that they actually understand that if you have to have parking, hide it well.

Absolutely. Most of this development will look great from the street. Along Sheldon, however, the view will be mostly parking. But as MJLO and andrew.w stated, the lots along Sheldon may eventually be developed. In the meantime, some of that surface parking could have been masked by using existing trees on the site. Per code, landscaped islands are required for the parking lots; building the parking islands around some of the mature trees on site would have been a nice touch.

I would imagine that until that area sees a better critical mass of residents that live and work fairly close by, this will be the only way to pull something like this off. Wealthy and Division is still a very underpopulated, auto-centeric, and shabby area right now.

It's a chicken / egg question. If the area needs critical mass, why not design the site plan to higher density? If the area is already auto-centric, will this plan promote (an arguably) bad habit? We can hope the parking lots are eventually used for an infill project, but taking parking away from folks who are used to it can be a bear.

The problem I have is that it doesnt create any real density just percieved density. If arent any people who cares if the parking is hidden...

Presumably the applicant has complied with the parking requirements in our current (form-based, 21stC) zoning ordinance.

I think these two comments highlight a much bigger problem: cities everywhere maintain minimum parking standards that prevent truly dense developments. IMO, if a developer believes he/she can successfully develop a site with little or no parking, they should have that option. By choice or not, a large portion of the population does not drive a car. A free market would allow developers to cater to the non-driving population. Districts like Monroe Center and East Hills simply couldn't be built in compliance with modern parking requirements, and I think most people on this forum would like to see more developments modeled after such districts.

[fotoman311]

This discussion is a perfect place to post an article I read yesterday by Chuck Marohn titled, "The cost of auto orientation"

http://www.strongtow...rientation.html

His basic premise is that even an "old and blighted" area with traditional development patterns (pre-auto), has a higher tax base than a brand sparkly new fast food restaurant with normal fast-food restaurant sized parking lot, two blocks away. So by tearing down these traditionally developed strips and replacing them with new auto-oriented development, a community is essentially chipping away at its property tax base.

The eleven old and blighted lots -- some of the most undesirable commercial property in the city -- arranged in the traditional development pattern along the incompatible, major arterial of Highway 210 have a combined tax base of $1,136,500.

To compare, the Taco John's property -- the one that is not only shiny and new but configured precisely as the city of Brainerd desires the old and blighted properties to someday be -- has a total valuation of only $803,200.

[John E]

http://www.facebook.com/jim.reminga

[SupercityGR]

That is going to look very nice

[joeDowntown]

Cool pic of the after / during construction phase. This project will add some nice density to the see of parking lots around it.

Joe

[MiGuyz]

Across the street from the ICCF buildings Mary Free Bed plans more development for the area along Wealthy:

Mary Free Bed's $48 million expansion plan will nearly double size of rehab hospital

[RegalTDP]

Across the street from the ICCF buildings Mary Free Bed plans more development for the area along Wealthy:

Mary Free Bed's $48 million expansion plan will nearly double size of rehab hospital

Good for Mary Free Bed! And good for the neighborhood, since I assume we'll be losing a surface parking lot as a result of this.

Edited February 6, 2012 by RegalTDP

[GR_Urbanist]

So where is this going be built?

MFB has two large parking lots to the west and SW, so they will have to take out one or the other which will be a welcome change in direction for that area.

[MiGuyz]

The addition will be built to the west of the current building at what is now a parking lot along Jefferson.

[amylynne]

West Michigan Food Collective has announced that their store will open at 2 Wealthy St SE.

http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=3569a48a65ba7755e2293d89e&id=64ad016de8

[GR_Urbanist]

West Michigan Food Collective has announced that their store will open at 2 Wealthy St SE.

http://us2.campaign-...e&id=64ad016de8

I guess I dont want to seem rude, but is this the grocery, like the type people have beeen begging for in this area for years?

When I hear "West Michigan Food Collective" I'm envisioning lots of Harvest Health stuff with a side of WholeFoods, which is ok if you are into that, but is far away from the Family Fare people were hopng for.

Edited March 15, 2012 by GR_Urbanist

[Veloise]

I guess I dont want to seem rude, but is this the grocery, like the type people have beeen begging for in this area for years?

When I hear "West Michigan Food Collective" I'm visioning lots of Harvest Health stuff with a side of WholeFoods, which is ok if you are into that, but is far away from the Family Fare people were hopng for.

Clicking on the provided URL leads to several links describing the effort. It's a food co-op type of deal. HTH

[GRDadof3]

Clicking on the provided URL leads to several links describing the effort. It's a food co-op type of deal. HTH

What does that mean? Can people get all their groceries there, I think is what the question is.

[Veloise]

http://www.facebook.com/jim.reminga

ICCF & Co, I'm sure you read this. Tonight while volunteering at LaughFest, for an event in the CIC, the security guard and many attendees asked questions about "what's going in across the street." You might want to add some signage or see if the CIC lobby will display your old renderings, or something. The guard said he did not know who owns/is developing the property.

I kept telling everyone, "we'll be getting a grocery store," and to a person the response was, "we need it here."

[fotoman311]

Clicking on the provided URL leads to several links describing the effort. It's a food co-op type of deal. HTH

Can you please elaborate? I found a vague Facebook page with bits and pieces of info and photos of some refrigeration equipment. There's a reference to 5x5 night, but their site does not appear to have an archive of past applicants. The website only leads to a place to sign-up for the email list, not an actual site.

Please enlighten us to the details I am missing because I apparently cannot find the proper links to follow.

If it's like other co-op groceries I have shopped at, it will have all the basic staples that you need, heavier on the natural foods/Harvest Health type stuff. You probably won't find twinkies or hershey's bars or weight watchers frozen dinners. You might find Newman's Own sandwich cookies. I'm hoping for a good bulk foods section and some affordable granola.

[Raildudes dad]

Try this website, they have lots of granola:) http://www.westmichigancoop.com/

[GRDadof3]

According to sources, this is far from a done deal (or a beginning deal, or any kinda deal).

[x99]

According to sources, this is far from a done deal (or a beginning deal, or any kinda deal).

That website looks to me like, "We have a nice dream sketched out on the back of a napkin." They haven't even formed a business entity yet, which is all of a $1000 step that takes less than a week. The website is rather informative: Financing? Natch. Contract for site? Nil. Comparable business experience? Nada. According to their website, the "co-op" has about 500 members who order food online and take deliveries once a month. All of this is a far cry from running a retail grocery operation. I'm not saying it can't happen--it very well could, and I hope it does. I would much rather have this there than a Save-A-Lot. Although, I've got to wonder: There are quite a lot of people with quite a lot of money who live in Heritage Hill. I'm rather surprised that no one builds anything to try to attract any of them (including a basic traditional grocery store). Has retail downtown been so far gone for so long that no one wants to make the effort?

[GRDadof3]

The DDA is working on a new updated market study to determine demographics near the downtown area. http://www.mlive.com...arget_a_bi.html

I've seen demographic reports provided for downtown properties that look really strange, rather abysmal when it comes to household incomes in the downtown area. I think that's being skewed terribly by the high concentration of low income housing in the downtown area, and what is scaring serious grocers and retailers away. But I don't think they capture the true picture of market potential, IMO. Averages and means might look low, but you might have 1000+ households with above average HH income in a 2 mile radius of downtown. *I'm no retail expert

That was meant to be a reply to you x99.

[x99]

I also think there has to be fairly serious potential there as well, but the demographics are a problem. More specifically, not the overall demographics, but the large share of low income individuals. It's a self-selection issue: People with higher incomes will not shop at a grocery store where "other people" also shop. There is plenty of money sloshing around the Hill to support a grocer. The real question is whether the people with the money would actually shop there. I'm not sure they would. I have no doubt that--say--a Save-A-Lot would be successful in a business sense, but that wouldn't seem to be an impetus for the continued development many here hope for. Assuming some new retail does go in around that area, it should act as very interesting test cases.

I've seen demographic reports provided for downtown properties that look really strange, rather abysmal when it comes to household incomes in the downtown area. I think that's being skewed terribly by the high concentration of low income housing in the downtown area, and what is scaring serious grocers and retailers away. But I don't think they capture the true picture of market potential, IMO. Averages and means might look low, but you might have 1000+