The Grain District

[westsider28]

Quick update on intersection progress.  That plan in my last post (posted again below) seems quite accurate.  Concrete is in, and it looks like brick crosswalks will be next.  They've actually already finished the mid-block crossing shown in that plan, complete with bulb-out on the south curb (photo 2 below).  I only wish it were raised, to slow traffic more.  But it's still nice.  Looking forward to the finished product.

Edited April 19, 2017 by westsider28
Oops, new page; added rendering from last page for context.

[westsider28]

I was looking at this week's Upstate Business Journal and saw an ad for a proposed building at 331 West Main (old car dealer).  The building (which would have to go thru DRB) is only 1-story tall and has a drive-thru, which is concerning.  This is DT-5, which requires 2+ stories and has several restrictions on drive-thrus (which I think should really be banned entirely).  The DRB set a dangerous precedent when they approved the Event Rentals building at 1-story.  This important gateway needs to be a pedestrian-friendly extension of DT proper, not a series of strip centers.  I hope they reject this one.

[Spartan]

Agreed. But if they do allow it, I hope they require a design that is attractive and doesn't look like a generic suburban shopping center.

[spartanburgh]

It looks like a new skin on the old building? I understand that there are issues with the soil on this site for

new construction. Hopefully this want pass and something much better will come of this site in the future.

[roads-scholar]

This building is an eyesore.  Anything is an improvement. 

 

[Historyguy]

Well, a few other thoughts - yes, it is DT5, but the fact that it's an existing building is going to play into the decision.  For example, it isn't going to be able to meet the setbacks required in DT5 because it is already there.  I am not sure all of the standards apply.  They will apply - it appears to me - if it is a substantial modification (above 50% in appraised value) and then only to the "expanded area and the landscaping requirement to the extent practical."  

I will have to ask to be sure, but I've been told that DRB approval is only required for new construction in DT6 and in required shopfront and parcels greater than 2 acres.  (I am looking at section 2.4.1 of the downtown code.)  But even on the one vs two story issue - not sure the DRB could really require them to add a second story...  

I may not like this a lot, but I don't know if we have a regulatory framework to refuse it.  

[westsider28]

I wasn't thinking renovation for some reason, so in that case I can understand the regulations being different.  I hope the car entrance will be on Walker St, to help with walkability along Main.  And I still think the Code should be changed to disallow drive-thrus.  Anyway, I guess we'll see how this shakes out.

[westsider28]

Well, the DMA & West Main intersection is done and looks really nice.  Below is a finished view of that and the mid-block crossing near RJ Rockers.  Now work is being done around the railroad tracks to enable the crossing to be a "quiet zone."  Medians are going in to prevent cars from going around the stop-arms.  One of the medians now makes Ezell St right-turn only, but that's not really a big deal. (pics from several different days)

Edited May 2, 2017 by westsider28
Newer photo

[westsider28]

4 hours ago, Spartanburg Dude said:

Also, heard a rumor over the weekend that the white building behind AC Hotel has been purchased (the industrial building / Grain District). Does anyone have any insight into any redevelopment plans?

Figured this discussion belonged in this thread.  I haven't heard anything about the site lately.  It includes both of the large buildings and surrounding vacant land.  It has long been a site the City has pitched for big, asperational projects.  It was a candidate when several west-coast breweries were looking for an east-coast location a few years back.  And most recently, it was pitched (pun intended) as a baseball stadium location (which I would love).

[Spartan]

I think it could still be a brewery. It think the momentum in that part of downtown is very hard to ignore now. Seems like more people and businesses will want to be a part of it.

[Upstate Guy]

I think another brewery in that area would be great.  The baseball field idea would be awesome but I double that we will get a minor league team given that Greenville and Columbia are so close...however, what if a stadium were built to house the local colleges? (USC/Wofford/Converse) and maybe some HS playoff games or big local rivalry games. 

[Spartan]

That said, I think it would be tough to have a stadium just for college teams to play each other - and I would suggest that Duncan Park is the best place for it.

Greenville and Columbia having teams doesn't necessarily preclude Spartanburg from getting a team. It's my understanding that Greenville's team would have to sign off on Spartanburg getting a MiLB team since they are geographically close, so that's probably the only major hurdle. My guess, though, is that Spartanburg having a team wouldn't necessarily cannibalize ticket sales for their team. I don't get the impression that very many people go to Greenville to go to games. Not to say that it doesn't happen, just that it's infrequent enough that it wouldn't impact their ticket sales too much if Spartanburg had its own team. It's more likely that a team would be part of some non-MLB-affiliated league.

Why do we have to confine ourselves to baseball, though? Minor league baseball is boring, right? The teams may or may not be good, players get pulled up to higher levels so the lineups are unpredictable. I bet some are there for pure love of the sport, and maybe a handful are die hard fans for some reason.  I think that most people go to minor league games for the socialization and to have a few drinks (this is 100% what my friends and I do).  So, why not pursue a different minor league sport? What about a minor league soccer stadium? I would argue soccer is no less boring than minor league baseball. The biggest difference is the cultural tradition of baseball in America... but seriously, why not take a gamble on something different? We may never get a baseball team in the MiLB system, and anything else is going to be inherently less appealing. I would bet money that getting a minor league soccer team would be much easier and would set us apart from all of the other cities that are copying Greenville.

[westsider28]

I'd be fine with a soccer team/stadium.  I like soccer better than baseball, personally.  But we do not have the right demographics to support minor league soccer.  Baseball's tradition in the area guarantees support that would be incredibly difficult to drum up for soccer.

But this is all hypothetical, because neither a pro soccer or baseball stadium is likely to happen.  Mainly because any stadium would require at least some public funding (in the millions), and neither the City or County is in the position to provide that (for fiscal reasons and political ones).

[roads-scholar]

5 hours ago, Spartan said:

That said, I think it would be tough to have a stadium just for college teams to play each other - and I would suggest that Duncan Park is the best place for it.

Greenville and Columbia having teams doesn't necessarily preclude Spartanburg from getting a team. It's my understanding that Greenville's team would have to sign off on Spartanburg getting a MiLB team since they are geographically close, so that's probably the only major hurdle. My guess, though, is that Spartanburg having a team wouldn't necessarily cannibalize ticket sales for their team. I don't get the impression that very many people go to Greenville to go to games. Not to say that it doesn't happen, just that it's infrequent enough that it wouldn't impact their ticket sales too much if Spartanburg had its own team. It's more likely that a team would be part of some non-MLB-affiliated league.

Why do we have to confine ourselves to baseball, though? Minor league baseball is boring, right? The teams may or may not be good, players get pulled up to higher levels so the lineups are unpredictable. I bet some are there for pure love of the sport, and maybe a handful are die hard fans for some reason.  I think that most people go to minor league games for the socialization and to have a few drinks (this is 100% what my friends and I do).  So, why not pursue a different minor league sport? What about a minor league soccer stadium? I would argue soccer is no less boring than minor league baseball. The biggest difference is the cultural tradition of baseball in America... but seriously, why not take a gamble on something different? We may never get a baseball team in the MiLB system, and anything else is going to be inherently less appealing. I would bet money that getting a minor league soccer team would be much easier and would set us apart from all of the other cities that are copying Greenville.

Living in several current and former minor league cities (including Spartanburg) I can tell you that fans often tire and become disinterested in their teams and stadiums.  Attendance wanes and the owners begin seeking new and profitable venues.  i see Spartanburg's best chance for a return of professional baseball when a team starts looking to relocate.   If the financial incentives are right a team owner may relocate here and even construct his own stadium.

I'm not so sure about soccer.  Its growing in popularity, yes, but Spartanburg and the Piedmont have a long tradition with baseball.  I'm sure local baseball fans will embrace a team if the stadium is attractive and located in the right place. 

By the way, rules that govern minor and major league baseball territorial rights give existing franchises the "right of first refusal" on new franchises located in their own county and in those counties that abut their county. 

Finally, Spartan is right.  I believe that most people in Spartanburg won't drive to Greenville for a minor league baseball game.  A major league [exhibition] game, maybe.  

[drexel]

What about a stadium that can convert from baseball to soccer/lacrosse.  

[westsider28]

47 minutes ago, drexel said:

What about a stadium that can convert from baseball to soccer/lacrosse.  

Multi-sport stadiums are generally a bad idea, as they assure a less-than-ideal experience (sight-lines, etc) for every sport.  IMO, a stadium will not happen without a strong anchor tenant.  It's not feasible to build one for a mishmash of sports, tournaments, and events that don't have a regular schedule or consistent revenue flow.

[Spartan]

I think you could get a stadium that supports multiple sports if they're all sports with rectangular fields. I think multi-sport fields that work for baseball tend to be awkward due to the shape of those stadia.

[westsider28]

Well, I doubt the H-J site will be redeveloped any time soon.  I found a Loopnet listing where the first floor is being offered for-lease, and the lease term says "through July 2030."  Kind of a bummer.

[Spartan]

They could also just renovate the building and turn part of the first floor into retail space. 

[westsider28]

I wondered what was happening at West Main and Walker Street (former Auto Fleet), because the parking lot was being ripped up. This HJ article explains that the lot(s) are just being cleaned up to look nicer, and there are no development plans yet.  Sign will come down too, which is nice.  The lots are owned by Bill Barnet.

[westsider28]

You may or may not have heard, but there is a considerable effort underway to beautify / enhance the streetscape of West Main entering downtown.  Many stakeholders including the One Spartanburg initiative at the Chamber are involved.  I don't know the timeline for sure, and I think it could still be as much as 5+ years out, but planning is happening in earnest. 

A study is underway that focuses mainly on streetscaping from St John to the RR tracks, as far as I know.  The idea is for lots of street trees, fewer/narrower travel lanes, possible parallel parking, possible protected bike lanes, and wide sidewalks.  Obviously funding must be found, but this would make a huge positive impact on this important gateway into downtown.

[There is an older (2017ish) study I found on the City website which had a much broader scope (PDF here).  It suggested extending DT-5 zoning all the way out to the Dollar General (which is ambitious, but I like it).  It also suggested creating a Business Improvement District to encourage investment in blighted properties along the corridor.  It even suggested "West Hub" as a name/brand for the district. Not sure if these ideas are still in play.]

Edited January 30, 2019 by westsider28

[Spartan]

I think that's a great place to focus on. There are enough buildings there that could be repurposed to create a better entry area into downtown from the west. And SCDOT will probably support (or at least no oppose) that type of design in this area,

[westsider28]

Noticed today that many crape myrtles were planted along the West Main sidewalk on the 2 Bill Barnet-owned properties on each side of S Walker Street.  Should provide some nice greenery (and flowers) in the interim until the streetscaping project happens.

[westsider28]

The Herald-Journal is reporting that the 7-acre Snyder Electric (old Spartan Grain) property is under contract ahead of a final sale.  Snyder is retiring and selling off his company's inventory.

I really hope this property is being bought by a bold/capable owner willing to develop it (versus someone looking to sit on it or flip it).  Fingers crossed.

[spartanburgh]

At 7.5 Million dollars (asking Price) they are capable,  but do they act now or are they just speculating? Lets hope its something

that totally transforms that site.