Drive for 'Center City' retail

[KJHburg]

I lived for 10 years in Fairfax County 15 miles from the White House and I did go downtown a lot and enjoyed the sights.  DC is still one of my top 10 favorite cities anywhere.   However most of my suburban friends did very  rarely unless out of town guests were in town.  I know people who live at the beach and don't have time to enjoy the beach.  KJ was always giving tours of the city to my visiting friends and relatives and I loved it. 

 But I love Charlotte more for lots of reasons.  I do agree if you don't like the city you live in move you have that choice and with a great job market now I am sure you will find a place and job you would like.  I love where I live and you could not blast me out of this Charlotte metro area.  

 

[15895]

1 hour ago, elrodvt said:

Fair enough. I shouldn't have said boosterism and I've always respected your posts. I didn't mean to come off as condescending either. My apologies.

It's largely personal choice but for what I like I'm hard pressed to think of many things I can't do in DC that I could in Charlotte. The reverse is pretty easy. Maybe I overestimate how many museums, plays, MLB etc I would attend though!

Man taking less money to work in DC is hard core. We looked there and decided for the kinda place we want to live in it was not affordable.

It’s all good.  

[TheOneRJ]

On 12/3/2018 at 5:13 AM, elrodvt said:

I get your point but there are many cities without tourist attractions that work.

Which ones?

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

On 12/3/2018 at 4:03 AM, TheOneRJ said:

Retail in Savannah and Charleston work because their respective downtowns are tourist attractions. 

Uptown Charlotte isn’t a tourist attraction. If a visitor to Charlotte had the option of paying to park Uptown to visit a H&M store vs going to SouthPark for free, they’re going to go to SouthPark. There needs to be something significant to draw people to Uptown in order for a real retail development to happen, otherwise stores would be a ghost town outside of game days and large events. 

I agree with some of this, but I wouldn't necessarily say Uptown isn't a tourist attraction.  Tourist Attractions is a very broad term imo...can encompass a variety of different things.  

fwiw, from your example,  if I was visiting a city, I would pay to park (or pay for transit) and shop at the H&M downtown any day over shopping at a mall.  Being downtown is an experience in itself with all the sights, sounds, and smells (good & bad lol).  I guess what I'm trying to say is I think every downtown is a tourist attraction in it's own way.

Besides retail (which would make Uptown next level imo), I wish there was another museum.  We have a nice little art scene and Discovery place...I kind of wish the Carolina's Aviation museum was Uptown...havent been there at the airport location but would go if it was Uptown. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[SgtCampsalot]

Uptown would need a cluster of soft goods retail. While people do love wandering around Uptown, the average visitor's patience for walking distance is quite low.

[elrodvt]

1 hour ago, TheOneRJ said:

Which ones?

From personal experience the last two I lived in: Denver & Burlington, VT. The shopping and dining and how it was done (quirky cool stuff in BTV, tons of stuff in Denver) is the attraction itself. As SGt says above it needs to be clustered as well or denver has clusters plus the hop on mall busses.

[TheOneRJ]

On 12/5/2018 at 9:53 AM, elrodvt said:

From personal experience the last two I lived in: Denver & Burlington, VT. The shopping and dining and how it was done (quirky cool stuff in BTV, tons of stuff in Denver) is the attraction itself. As SGt says above it needs to be clustered as well or denver has clusters plus the hop on mall busses.

Denver is a tourist attraction. Church Street Marketplace is nothing more than a mall built in what would become a downtown district, which is also a tourist attraction. 

More tourists visit Concord Mills and Carowinds a year than they do Uptown. Uptown is still heavily business-focused, and those that travel here for business do not care about going down the street to buy a new pair of pants. 

[elrodvt]

So your definition of a tourist attraction is a place people want to live and shop. That's the end of discussion then. 

[Durhamite]

14 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

So your definition of a tourist attraction is a place people want to live and shop. That's the end of discussion then. 

When I lived in Denver (Aurora), I frequented the 16th Mall to shop and eat from time to time and usually took friends from out of town down there to get a feel of the city.  Though, it isn't a tourist magnet like areas in NYC or DC, it was cool.  Charlotte just needs a small cluster of retail shops (nothing of 16th mall magnitude), a focus point for visitors and locals who favor that kind of atmosphere.  There's already  lots of stuff uptown, kind of scattered around.  In downtown DC, there really isn't a destination area for shopping, etc, primarily concentrated pockets for all that stuff (CenterCity, L'nfant Plaza, Georgetown, etc).  The more popular places in DC are outside the city proper...National Harbor, Pentagon City, etc.  Just my experiences living there....prob different for other folks.

[rancenc]

Interesting article from Reuters on Barneys and the overall luxury retail industry.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-barneys-ny-bankruptcy-vendors-focus/as-barneys-struggles-fashion-vendors-try-on-alternative-channels-idUSKCN1V30Z1

[Guest]

I'm so glad you found this thread. Makes my life easier. 

I was just thinking last night. I believe we are delivering the most retail at one single time, that we ever have in the Center City. I'd be interested to see Data to this effect.

[NYtoCLT]

Just now, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I'm so glad you found this thread. Makes my life easier. 

I was just thinking last night. I believe we are delivering the most retail at one single time, that we ever have in the Center City. I'd be interested to see Data to this effect.

Pretty much all restaurants though, no? It would help if one flagship store (Zara/H&M/etc) chose an uptown location, then you could fill surrounding block with more retail, but all of the office space pretty much has restaurants and bars.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, NYtoCLT said:

Pretty much all restaurants though, no? It would help if one flagship store (Zara/H&M/etc) chose an uptown location, then you could fill surrounding block with more retail, but all of the office space pretty much has restaurants and bars.

I just mean space in general. I know a lot of the people who lease retail spaces in and around uptown, and there's very little interest shown by clothing brands.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Guest

[CLT2014]

Uptown demographics = 55% male residents and maybe an even bigger skew towards a majority male workforce

South End demographics = 52% female residents

Unsurprisingly Uptown has Jos A Bank, Ole Mason Jar, et. and South End has Free People, Anthropologie, West Elm, et. If Zara and H&M were to pick a location in the Center City area not at a mall, I'd expect them to land in South End due to a more favorable mix of male and female shoppers. The women's section is the largest department at both Zara and H&M and South End has better foot traffic after work / weekends. 

Parking is also an issue for mid-day shopping Uptown. Most people are working during the day Uptown and the streets are pretty dead from 10AM - 11:30AM and 1:30PM - 4PM. If somebody was to drive in from Dilworth and shop at Zara at 2PM, there is currently no free parking. Meanwhile, if you go to South Park mid day it is shockingly packed with people shopping. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by CLT2014

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Uptown demographics = 55% male residents and maybe an even bigger skew towards a majority male workforce

South End demographics = 52% female residents

Unsurprisingly Uptown has Jos A Bank, Ole Mason Jar, et. and South End has Free People, Anthropologie, West Elm, et. If Zara and H&M were to pick a location in the Center City area not at a mall, I'd expect them to land in South End due to a more favorable mix of male and female shoppers. The women's section is the largest department at both Zara and H&M and South End has better foot traffic after work / weekends. 

Parking is also an issue for mid-day shopping Uptown. Most people are working during the day Uptown and the streets are pretty dead from 10AM - 11:30AM and 1:30PM - 4PM. If somebody was to drive in from Dilworth and shop at Zara at 2PM, there is currently no free parking. Meanwhile, if you go to South Park mid day it is shockingly packed with people shopping. 

Only one space being built in all of Center City Charlotte big enough to support either store, and that's the Tryon and Carson facing space at Lending Tree. 17,000 sq feet. But I'm hearing that's going to be a large social lounge/arcade.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Guest

[Matthew.Brendan]

I really don't know why there isn't an Apple store uptown. Seems like the biggest no brainer around.

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

I really don't know why there isn't an Apple store uptown. Seems like the biggest no brainer around.

I believe they've talked to a number of people, Southend and Uptown, about opening a store.

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

It appears Kandy Bar at the Epicentre has closed (at least it shows vacant on their directory).  Gold's Gym (36k sqft), Bubble, Enso are some of the big vacancies along with other smaller spots.  I'm not saying Apple or Zara  should come to the Epicentre, but I put those two type of stores in the "if you build it, they will come" category and can basically be placed anywhere within reason.  

I really think Ally Center and JW could really support some high-end stores there (if the spaces are large enough).  I expect LU to be heavy on food n bev.  Rest of Stonewall looks like Japanese bbq, d9 brewery/cafe, boutique hair salon (savoy), then a cookie shop so far at 550, then starbucks, fifth 3rd branch, boutique nail (cachet), lemon love novel station (a lot more places to fill as well though).

I think retailers (soft goods) are skeptical to be the first and only retailer of their kind on the block.  I think the Epicentre provides a platform for shops to feed off of each other and bring in foot traffic.  I probably sound like a broken record and I know the Epi is not everyone's cup of tea, however, I truly think the owners of the Epicentre are strategically weeding out the tenants they don't want and grooming it patiently.  I mean look at how long Enso has been vacant and that is a large and prominent spot.  I think and hope the owners have a master-plan thought out and are just waiting to connect the dots when the time is right (yes, including a renovation/update).  I dont know what they can do about rent prices to help attract tenants but it has the accessibility via light rail, the underground parking, and is the epitome of eat, work, play & hopefully someday shopping.  The formula to the equation is there...who's going to solve it?

Epicentre Directory by level:

https://epicentrenc.com/directory/

Edited August 13, 2019 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[KJHburg]

From NYC about the growing vacancies of retail space in urban areas with increased rental costs.  Not just a Charlotte problem for sure.

https://www.nreionline.com/retail/empty-storefronts-jolt-nyc-council-action-small-business

[Desert Power]

On 8/13/2019 at 1:56 PM, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

It appears Kandy Bar at the Epicentre has closed (at least it shows vacant on their directory).  Gold's Gym (36k sqft), Bubble, Enso are some of the big vacancies along with other smaller spots.  I'm not saying Apple or Zara  should come to the Epicentre, but I put those two type of stores in the "if you build it, they will come" category and can basically be placed anywhere within reason.  

I really think Ally Center and JW could really support some high-end stores there (if the spaces are large enough).  I expect LU to be heavy on food n bev.  Rest of Stonewall looks like Japanese bbq, d9 brewery/cafe, boutique hair salon (savoy), then a cookie shop so far at 550, then starbucks, fifth 3rd branch, boutique nail (cachet), lemon love novel station (a lot more places to fill as well though).

I think retailers (soft goods) are skeptical to be the first and only retailer of their kind on the block.  I think the Epicentre provides a platform for shops to feed off of each other and bring in foot traffic.  I probably sound like a broken record and I know the Epi is not everyone's cup of tea, however, I truly think the owners of the Epicentre are strategically weeding out the tenants they don't want and grooming it patiently.  I mean look at how long Enso has been vacant and that is a large and prominent spot.  I think and hope the owners have a master-plan thought out and are just waiting to connect the dots when the time is right (yes, including a renovation/update).  I dont know what they can do about rent prices to help attract tenants but it has the accessibility via light rail, the underground parking, and is the epitome of eat, work, play & hopefully someday shopping.  The formula to the equation is there...who's going to solve it?

Epicentre Directory by level:

https://epicentrenc.com/directory/

Epicenter is so run down in spaces.  Hard to see an Apple store there unless it was the prime spot like Vida.

[Matthew.Brendan]

I highly doubt Apple would ever locate in Epicenter. The good news is they excel at re-use and architecture design of new buildings. Might as well dream big.

https://applestorefronts.appspot.com

[Desert Power]

1 hour ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

I highly doubt Apple would ever locate in Epicenter. The good news is they excel at re-use and architecture design of new buildings. Might as well dream big.

https://applestorefronts.appspot.com

Would look great at the bottom of the new DEC

[KJHburg]

On 8/15/2019 at 1:06 PM, Desert Power said:

Would look great at the bottom of the new DEC

Or at the bottom floor of Ally Center at Tryon Place 

[Guest]

Or at the bottom floor of Ally Center at Tryon Place 

Tryon Place is now what they’re calling the Spectrum buildings lol. None of the spaces under Ally Center Charlotte are big enough.

[KJHburg]

14 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Tryon Place is now what they’re calling the Spectrum buildings lol. None of the spaces under Ally Center Charlotte are big enough.

really so Spectrums project is now Tryon Place LOL I like that name so this is the truly the AllyCenter and that's it now I guess. 

too bad about Apple store because I think it is great location the new "center" of uptown.