Drive for 'Center City' retail

[15895]

Downtown Raleigh had a nice urban outfitters at the Dillon building. Though to be fair, I guess that area would be the equivalent to CLT’s southend. 

Though at 9:20 pm on a Friday. Not a single place to even get a toothbrush or anything. Just some basic bars full of UNCH bros 

Edited August 17, 2019 by AirNostrumMAD

[KJHburg]

10 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Downtown Raleigh had a nice urban outfitters at the Dillon building. Though to be fair, I guess that area would be the equivalent to CLT’s southend. 

Though at 9:20 pm on a Friday. Not a single place to even get a toothbrush or anything. Just some basic bars full of UNCH bros 

Weaver Street Market is opening in the Dillon soon that will solve that problem and their Publix will open in months on the north end of downtown. 

Speaking of Publix and the drive to center city retail what is the latest on the uptown charlotte location??? anyone?  

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

In my dreams I envision Tryon our shopping district  with apple, urbN out, hm, barnes n nob, etc. Rent this rent that...I mean I get it but I dont get it. Large cities- small cities, I've seen both kill our retail scene uptown. Many UPers dont like overstreet but if we're being real, that's the most shopping any one can do. Okay the ppl are inside and not outside wandering around, but why not make that into a decent shopping "mall".  Stay open till 8 or 9.  Entire stonewall strip has exited my hope  of retail (food and beverage and nail salon this, hair that is what that corridor is turning into...blows my mind there are two nail salon esque businesses going into next to each other at  Novel station retail), UP doesnt like the epicentre as a retail hub...queue the southend retail comments. Okay yes, that is going to have a lot of retail however if I'm a visitor to clt or any city, I want shopping close to my hotel downtown. Just my opinion. I dont want to take a train, lightrail ,metro etc. I want walking distance, not uber distance shopping. I don't buy the 277 isn't a barrier comments either to southend. I dont need the guccis, louis vs, mk, etc let southpark have that market. But by hey zeus, just want to buy some shi uptown other than asian fusion this, steak that, insert healthy food chain this. 

Okay rant over. Sincerely, crown royal. 

[elrodvt]

Japan's Nikki Coffey whiskey will improve your mood.

Close Tryon and make it a ped mall. Overstreet is seedy and I can't picture how they could make it really nice plus enlarge it. 

[easzman]

14 hours ago, elrodvt said:

Japan's Nikki Coffey whiskey will improve your mood.

Close Tryon and make it a ped mall. Overstreet is seedy and I can't picture how they could make it really nice plus enlarge it. 

100% agree on closing Tryon. They could keep the cross streets open initially but aim to close off certain ones down the line. 

[DMann]

IMO, some of the older northern cities that have downtown retail have it because they always had it.  No retailer would go into a market that does not have downtown retail and open a traditional large store.  That is not how people shop anymore.  Take a look at this: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/05/take-a-peek-inside-nordstroms-first-tiny-store-without-inventory.html, this could be something that could happen in Charlotte's downtown.  I could envision  a "mall" of 8 or 10 retailers with this concept in a 50,000 - 60,000 space.  Retailing is no longer in-store browse and buy, but click and have it delivered, whether to your home, or to one of these Nordstrom concept locations.

Do the math; rent, HVAC, utilities, taxes, employees, employee benefits, POS system, registers, internet/wifi, loading dock, shrinkage, merchandise handling equipment, then put in fixtures for inventory, then buy the inventory.  I am sure I have left out something, but you get the picture.

[Madison Parkitect]

3 minutes ago, DMann said:

IMO, some of the older northern cities that have downtown retail have it because they always had it.  No retailer would go into a market that does not have downtown retail and open a traditional large store.  That is not how people shop anymore.  Take a look at this: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/05/take-a-peek-inside-nordstroms-first-tiny-store-without-inventory.html, this could be something that could happen in Charlotte's downtown.  I could envision  a "mall" of 8 or 10 retailers with this concept in a 50,000 - 60,000 space.  Retailing is no longer in-store browse and buy, but click and have it delivered, whether to your home, or to one of these Nordstrom concept locations.

Do the math; rent, HVAC, utilities, taxes, employees, employee benefits, POS system, registers, internet/wifi, loading dock, shrinkage, merchandise handling equipment, then put in fixtures for inventory, then buy the inventory.  I am sure I have left out something, but you get the picture.

These new tiny Nordstroms are in surrounding neighborhoods though, not city centers. As a specific example they're still spending big money on flagship stores in cities (albeit much bigger cities). I could see a tiny store like this thriving in South End.

[Desert Power]

On 8/18/2019 at 9:04 PM, elrodvt said:

Japan's Nikki Coffey whiskey will improve your mood.

Close Tryon and make it a ped mall. Overstreet is seedy and I can't picture how they could make it really nice plus enlarge it. 

Make a "Superblock" bounded by College, Church, 5th, and 4th.  Close Trade and Tryon to any thru traffic (besides the streetcar) in those boundaries.

[easzman]

8 minutes ago, Desert Power said:

Make a "Superblock" bounded by College, Church, 5th, and 4th.  Close Trade and Tryon to any thru traffic (besides the streetcar) in those boundaries.

100% agree. Tryon St. is only used by delivery trucks, dirt haulers, and uber drivers who  ignore the "no turn" signals. Imagine how nice it would be to have a quiet oasis in Center City if a superblock was created.

[KJHburg]

downtown retail is tough in many places.  Here is the ruins of Jacksonville Landing in downtown JAX Florida.  Now they have no where near the office employment or residents we have uptown but this was one of those festival marketplace that was built late 80s early 90s like our Cityflop I mean Cityfair that was demoed for the Hearst Truist Tower. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacksonville_Landing

If JAX had the downtown growth we have had this riverbank on both sides would be full of high rises.  Great setting but even that is hard to overcome. 

Look what downtown JAX is trying to do to encourage restaurants and retail.  At least I feel we in uptown are beyond this. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2020/01/14/dia-ceo-unveils-plan-to-make-dt-core-vibrant-for.html   one aspect of this would not work is that there are no public parking garages in uptown Charlotte owned by the city however our uptown is a destination for fine dining I do believe. 

Many more residents are needing in downtown JAX to make any kind of retail work.    Ironically the demo work was being done by our own NC based DH Griffin LOL! 

[15895]

Wonder if Atlanta, Charlotte, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Orlando and Tampa just suck up too much for Jacksonville to have larger growth 

[CLTProductions]

Personally, I hope its fate mirrors that of the epicenters

[rancenc]

As the desire for more retail in the core of Charlotte is desired, the retail landscape continues to shed stores.  Several Macy's including Winston-Salem's store at the city's only mall are closing this year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/08/macys-store-closuresheres-where-they-are.html

 

[Yeahdoug]

Department stores are for sure dying a slow death. We don’t need any of those center city. Some individual retailers like King st. in Charleston would be great. Their retail stretch is very busy on a nice day. 

[Desert Power]

1 hour ago, Yeahdoug said:

Department stores are for sure dying a slow death. We don’t need any of those center city. Some individual retailers like King st. in Charleston would be great. Their retail stretch is very busy on a nice day. 

It is also great around the holidays when they close it beneath Calhoun for cars.  Of course, we seldom have tourists wanting to shop at those high-end stores like Charleston.

[15895]

IMO, 

Successful Retail in Uptown will be directly off 277, huge parking deck, Epicenter style design and with other retail (local and national) branching out from there that has no parking.

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

1 hour ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

IMO, 

Successful Retail in Uptown will be directly off 277, huge parking deck, Epicenter style design and with other retail (local and national) branching out from there that has no parking.

Every bullet point you mention, yells LU to me.  You could fit an Epicentre-esque complex at LU's largest remaining plot (according to non scientific measurement in good earth).  Multi-leveled, open air complex that has retail on each level with a hotel and residential tower atop.  You can have some buried parking and overflow can go to the tiny deck right next to it.  Regardless if the retail comes to fruition at this site, my only worry is that any future tower on this site with substantial height is going to require another parking deck.  

Edited January 21, 2020 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[TheOneRJ]

20 hours ago, Desert Power said:

It is also great around the holidays when they close it beneath Calhoun for cars.  Of course, we seldom have tourists wanting to shop at those high-end stores like Charleston.

Yes we do. Charlotte severely lacks in high end shopping for a city of our size. Austin, for example, has twice the amount of high end stores. Charlotte has 3x as many annual tourists and 3x as many residents in the metro as Charleston.

[CLT2014]

30 minutes ago, TheOneRJ said:

Yes we do. Charlotte severely lacks in high end shopping for a city of our size. Austin, for example, has twice the amount of high end stores.

Is their like an official list or way to measure how many high end stores are somewhere?

[TheOneRJ]

49 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Is their like an official list or way to measure how many high end stores are somewhere?

No, but taking a look at SouthPark’s offerings vs The Domain’s offerings for example shows there’s a lack of high end stores in Charlotte. 

[Yeahdoug]

20 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

IMO, 

Successful Retail in Uptown will be directly off 277, huge parking deck, Epicenter style design and with other retail (local and national) branching out from there that has no parking.

I actually don’t mind the epicenter location. Good amount of parking .Being on the light rail would make it easy for all that southend money to come up and shop. Plus it’s on the street car line too. CTC is probably the biggest negative thing about that spot. 
 

Get rid of all the bars and clubs in there. Keep 1-3 restaurants and split the rest of the space for medium to high end retail and smaller stores. 

[CLT2014]

2 hours ago, TheOneRJ said:

No, but taking a look at SouthPark’s offerings vs The Domain’s offerings for example shows there’s a lack of high end stores in Charlotte. 

Domain, stores (stores in bold are also at SouthPark):
7 for all Mankind
Aeropostale
Aldo
AllSaints
Altar'd State
Amazon Books
American Eagle
American Threads
Anthropologie
Apple
Arhaus
Aritizia
Athleta
Away Luggage
Banana Republic
Bath and Body Works
BCBGMaxazria
Bldwn
Bonobos
Brandy Melville
Buckle (at Carolina Place and Nortlake)
Clarks
Coach
Cole Haan
COS
Daniel Wellington
David Yurman
Design Within Reach (in South End)
Diamonds Direct
Dick's SPorting Goods
Dillard's
Evereve
Everything but Water
Express
Fabletics
Filsons
Forever 21 (at Carolina Place and Northlake)
francesca's
freepeople (in South End)
FRYE
Hanna Andersson
H&M
its sugar
Indochino
Joie
J.Crew
Johnny Was
Journeys
Kendra Scott
L'Occitane
Lilly Pulitzer
Lily Rain
Lively 
Loft
Louis Vuitton
Lorna Jane
Lucky Brand
Lush
lulelemon
MAC
Macy's
Madwell
Magik
Maje Paris
marine layer (in South End)
marmi
Microsoft
Neiman Marcus
Nespresso
Origins
Paige
Paper Source (Phillip's Place)
Peleton
Peter Millar
PINK
Ray Ban
Restoration Hardware (Phillip's Place)
Robert Graham
Saint Bernard
Sandro Paris
Sephora
Sur la Table
Steve Madden 
Stuart Weitzman
Sunglass Hut
The Body Shop
Ted Baker
Tesla
Tiffany & Co.
Tommy Bahama
Tory Burch
Torrid (at Northlake)
Travis Mathew
Tumi
Untuckit
Vans
Victoria's Secret
Vince
Vineyard Vines
Warby Parker
White House Black Market
Zara
Zumiez (at Northlake and Carolina Place)

Total store not in SouthPark or Charlotte market: 24
AllSaints, Amazon Books, Away Luggage, Aritizia, BCBGMaxazria, Bldwn, Cole Haan, COS, Daniel Wellington, Evereve, Filsons, Lily Rain, Lively, Lorna Jane, Paige, Ray Ban, Robert Graham, Saint Bernard, Sandro Paris, Stuart Weitzman, Ted Baker, Travis Mathew, Vince, Zara

Stores at SouthPark  not in Austin: 23
Alex and Ani, American Girl, bare minerals, Ballard Designs, Belk, Brahmin, Burberry, Eileen Fisher, Hans Krug, Henig Furs, I.C. London, Ike Behar, Jack Rodgers, JMClaughlin, Kate Spade, Lacoste, Papyrus, Paul Simon Co., St. John, The North Face, Tommy John, Trina Turk, True Religion

Am I missing some major ones? Looks to me like Austin has some luxury brands we don't like BCBGMaxazria, COS, Sandro, Stuart Weitzman, et. while Charlotte has some luxury brands like Brahmin, Eileen Fisher, Kate Spade, Lacoste, St. John, et. that they don't.
 

Edited January 22, 2020 by CLT2014

[Rufus]

3 hours ago, TheOneRJ said:

Yes we do. Charlotte severely lacks in high end shopping for a city of our size. Austin, for example, has twice the amount of high end stores. Charlotte has 3x as many annual tourists and 3x as many residents in the metro as Charleston.

 

2 hours ago, TheOneRJ said:

No, but taking a look at SouthPark’s offerings vs The Domain’s offerings for example shows there’s a lack of high end stores in Charlotte. 

I get this, I do, but you also have to consider the economies of both cities, and the social environs. Austin is tech-oriented, with a strong youth, college culture. Most of the brands we see in Austin and not Charlotte appeal to millennials of the tech/startup variety. Charlotte, on the other hand is very conservative in fashion because it is banking and healthcare. Most of the brands seen in Charlotte and not Austin appeal to a clean cut, streamlined look. 

They are different environments for fashion, and I think that's ok. There's still a very healthy fashion culture in Charlotte, but the taste is different. There's a reason Capitol, TRC, Paul Simon work as well as they do.

[turbocraig]

29 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Domain, stores (stores in bold are also at SouthPark):
7 for all Mankind
Aeropostale
Aldo
AllSaints
Altar'd State
Amazon Books
American Eagle
American Threads
Anthropologie
Apple
Arhaus
Aritizia
Athleta
Away Luggage
Banana Republic
Bath and Body Works
BCBGMaxazria
Bldwn
Bonobos
Brandy Melville
Buckle (at Carolina Place and Nortlake)
Clarks
Coach
Cole Haan
COS
Daniel Wellington
David Yurman
Design Within Reach (in South End)
Diamonds Direct
Dick's SPorting Goods
Dillard's
Evereve
Everything but Water
Express
Fabletics
Filsons
Forever 21 (at Carolina Place and Northlake)
francesca's
freepeople (in South End)
FRYE
Hanna Andersson
H&M
its sugar
Indochino
Joie
J.Crew
Johnny Was
Journeys
Kendra Scott
L'Occitane
Lilly Pulitzer
Lily Rain
Lively 
Loft
Louis Vuitton
Lorna Jane
Lucky Brand
Lush
lulelemon
MAC
Macy's
Madwell
Magik
Maje Paris
marine layer (in South End)
marmi
Microsoft
Neiman Marcus
Nespresso
Origins
Paige
Paper Source (Phillip's Place)
Peleton
Peter Millar
PINK
Ray Ban
Restoration Hardware (Phillip's Place)
Robert Graham
Saint Bernard
Sandro Paris
Sephora
Sur la Table
Steve Madden 
Stuart Weitzman
Sunglass Hut
The Body Shop
Ted Baker
Tesla
Tiffany & Co.
Tommy Bahama
Tory Burch
Torrid (at Northlake)
Travis Mathew
Tumi
Untuckit
Vans
Victoria's Secret
Vince
Vineyard Vines
Warby Parker
White House Black Market
Zara
Zumiez (at Northlake and Carolina Place)

Total store not in SouthPark or Charlotte market: 24
AllSaints, Amazon Books, Away Luggage, Aritizia, BCBGMaxazria, Bldwn, Cole Haan, COS, Daniel Wellington, Evereve, Filsons, Lily Rain, Lively, Lorna Jane, Paige, Ray Ban, Robert Graham, Saint Bernard, Sandro Paris, Stuart Weitzman, Ted Baker, Travis Mathew, Vince, Zara

Stores at SouthPark  not in Austin: 23
Alex and Ani, American Girl, bare minerals, Ballard Designs, Belk, Brahmin, Burberry, Eileen Fisher, Hans Krug, Henig Furs, I.C. London, Ike Behar, Jack Rodgers, JMClaughlin, Kate Spade, Lacoste, Papyrus, Paul Simon Co., St. John, The North Face, Tommy John, Trina Turk, True Religion

Am I missing some major ones? Looks to me like Austin has some luxury brands we don't like BCBGMaxazria, COS, Sandro, Stuart Weitzman, et. while Charlotte has some luxury brands like Brahmin, Eileen Fisher, Kate Spade, Lacoste, St. John, et. that they don't.
 

^Im 99.9% certain there used to be a BCBG in SP.  It was the first store on the left side as you enter Neiman’s beside where Ralph Lauren was, IIRC.  And there was a Cole Haan around the corner near where Michael Kors is.  That one closed within the last couple of years I believe. 

[CLT2014]

9 minutes ago, turbocraig said:

^Im 99.9% certain there used to be a BCBG in SP.  It was the first store on the left side as you enter Neiman’s beside where Ralph Lauren was, IIRC.  And there was a Cole Haan around the corner near where Michael Kors is.  That one closed within the last couple of years I believe. 

Yes, BCBG closed 120 stores across the United States when they declared bankruptcy, including South Park: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-01/bcbg-max-azria-files-for-bankruptcy-as-retailer-seeks-turnaround They don't operate many of their own stores anymore, and most of their sales are within a department store. They retreated heavily to the western half of the country.