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Renaissance Park Projects & Developments


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  • 2 weeks later...

Looks like we may finally have some movement here.  There was a Public Notice in the paper today for the upcoming DRB meeting on August 16 at 5:30 pm.  In addition to The Commons at Pine, which will be reviewed, there was also this:

"2.The Design Review Board has received a request regarding a proposed new construction located at the parcels located at TMS# 7-12-06-085.01 and # 7-12-06-059.00 for the property located at ‘0’ East St. John Street and 173 East Daniel Morgan Avenue, from Andrew B. Cajka Jr. Agent, Southern Hospitality Group, Applicant."

I wonder if this will be the office building or the hotel? (or something else?)  Edit: Since the applicant is Southern Hospitality Group, that suggests hotel to me, but I guess we'll see.  Here are the 2 parcels via GIS:

598087af9c675_gisparcels.JPG.ff59ff12abad49d1cb80d1431e29397c.JPG

Edited by westsider28
Added my speculation
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  • 3 weeks later...

I was at the DRB meeting, and I was wrong in my prediction: it's an office building!  4 main stories (5 total including top floor event space) with ground floor restaurant, 3.5 floors office.  The building is about 70,000 sq ft (office & restaurant), with event space being an additional 10,000 sq ft.  The anchor tenant is a bank (not revealed who yet).  About 80 feet in height, right at the corner of (realigned) Silver Hill and Liberty. 

The DRB approved it, pending final material choices.  The planned materials are metal ground floor and precast upper floors (DRB suggested flipping that since precast is a "heavier" material).  Side parking is not ideal, and that's something the DRB members struggled with, but eventually decided to approve.  Certainly a pretty modern looking building (I'm sure Spartan won't like it), but I'm okay with it here since there's no historic context in this area to "blend in" with.  Oh, and I love the added street parking on Liberty.  Exciting stuff!  Here are several documents/photos:

Edit: H-J article is now up, with lots of renderings

IMG_1121.thumb.JPG.baa9d8f9719b3d1c562683a8cd58ca5a.JPGIMG_1122.thumb.JPG.8948502c9abc3e529d7e420f85e6d4af.JPGIMG_7630.thumb.JPG.652ad28622174e374201c299361fc713.JPGIMG_7631.thumb.JPG.4d0fdf0a8aa7919b275c3ee3f99a4236.JPG

Edited by westsider28
Added H-J article
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Initially, I just updated my original post, but I think this deserves its own post.  The H-J article about this project is now up, with lots of renderings.  Here's an example:

5995d2c59a9ed_Libertyoffice1.jpg.75fc38fb695ee8bafb77f302da05dda7.jpg

The developers talked about focusing on making this intersection a real node of activity, with this as the first piece.  They mentioned potentially a hotel (which we know they're considering) and apartments (rumored as well, probably by another developer) at the other corners, which would be almost every use.  It will be exciting to watch this area develop into its own unique area of downtown.

Edited by westsider28
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I'm sure somebody on this forum will find an aesthetic objection to this building but i see it has something new and bold.  I've felt that too many new structures downtown mimic Spartanburg's mill village past rather than being bold and contemporary. 

This could be the long-awaited catalyst for Renaissance Park.  I'm excited. 

If true, the comment that the Marriott has 300 guests a night makes me wonder if a new hotel announcement is imminent.   

Thoughts?

 

Edited by roads-scholar
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I don't care for that style of architecture at all. It's uninspiring and boring. Most of the building is just a grey box with windows. That said, it's a trendy style of architecture right now, and I think its ok/good for Spartanburg to have a few buildings like this to show that we're keeping up. If they were building this on the HJ site then I would be pissed, however since it is where it is, I think getting activity in Renaissance Park is more important. The urban design is decent, and I think it will add to the gradual expansion of walkability in downtown.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Nice overview article in the H-J on the history and future of Renaissance Park.  Gibbs talks about development possibilities there, including "one day in the not-so-distant future maybe another smaller hotel with 150 rooms."  Seems like a pretty strong hint.  I'm excited about the future of this part of downtown.  Lots of potential.

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  • 3 weeks later...
13 hours ago, westsider28 said:

You may have seen that the poles and mast arms for the new traffic light at St John and Liberty are now going up.  It seems like it's been a slow process, but I'm glad to see it finally happening.  This will be HUGE for connectivity between the core of downtown and Renaissance Park.

IMG_8010.thumb.JPG.3c6a0c941468c5886a82e814b2f248c9.JPG

I think this is great! But not sure why Spartanburg  has such long traffic arms.  Even if future left only turn signals are the reason, many throughout downtown  are way too long. When you look down Church Street all you see are these huge traffic arms that seem like they belong on a six lane highway.  Do not see this in other cities and these poles can not be cheap.   

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Well, the ones at Church & Broad are huge because they couldn't fit poles on the NE & SW corners, so the mast arms have to span the whole street (not just half).  But I have no idea why some others are so long.  Probably an SCDOT thing.  But clearly they can make shorter ones (see photo), so who knows.  I still prefer any mast arms to wires though, which we still have in some places downtown.

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23 minutes ago, drexel said:

I think this is great! But not sure why Spartanburg  has such long traffic arms.  Even if future left only turn signals are the reason, many throughout downtown  are way too long. When you look down Church Street all you see are these huge traffic arms that seem like they belong on a six lane highway.  Do not see this in other cities and these poles can not be cheap.   

It's because our roads are too wide.

SCDOT probably has two or three sizes of mast arms and just sends in the ones that can get the job done without being too small.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Not really impressed honestly. Looks like something that belongs in the suburbs not downtown.  Needs a garage instead of surface parking and retail space on the ground floor. Amenities like a pool, fitness center, etc would be nice also. Something similar to SouthRidge or Main and Stone in Greenville is what I would like to see on this site instead. 

Edited by gman430
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Yeah, a multi-building complex with surface parking has no place here.  I doubt there's retail included either, which is a MUST for this area.  I was really hoping we'd get a legit urban apartment development like the ones @gman430 mentioned.  Plus no space is reserved to push Converse Street through to Daniel Morgan to truly reconnect the grid.  And the City is offering incentives for this schlock?  No thanks.

Edit: Also, why is that giant drainage pit here in downtown anyway?  I've wondered that for years.

59e9520d356c0_Forgeaptssiteplan.thumb.jpg.2b9f25b68aae2b9ba3f402009ae799ef.jpg

Edited by westsider28
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Yeah, I'm not too keen on this either.  The idea of more apartments is good but this does feel like a suburban project.  I would like it more if they consolidated it into maybe 2 6-7 story buildings with a parking garage, so that there is still an opportunity for other projects in the area instead of an apartment complex taking up 7 acres.

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That many apartments in downtown would be a great thing for the city. That said, I agree that the site plan doesn't feel right. The number of buildings in and of themselves aren't the problem - it's the arrangement on the site. If they would connect another street through the middle to create an additional block, then the buildings could be arranged in such a way that it creates a more urban environment. I hope the DRB rips this one up and makes them come back with something better.

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I've been corresponding with a City Council member who insists that there are issues underground, including water lines, the drainage pit, and other "trash".  However, it's not a brownfield site.  I don't really understand what that could mean.  I guess those faint yellow lines on the site plan are the problem areas?  Why can't the City mitigate some of these issues in order to encourage a better development?  And why is reconnecting Converse not a priority?  I think that's extremely important.  I'd like to see something more like this: (though podium parking like 198 Main & Morgan, but larger, would be ideal).

renpark apts alt2.JPG

Edited by westsider28
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I would be surprised if the market could support a podium-style apartment, or even a true "Texas donut." Surface parking isn't a big deal though, as long as it's located behind the main structures.

I think that it's important to at least not preclude Converse St from being built in the future. 

 

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The Herald-Journal has its story up already - with the slides and renderings that were presented at Council.  

http://www.goupstate.com/news/20171023/development-agreement-for-downtown-luxury-apartments-advances

For what it's worth, the land and terrain itself presents some challenges, but the assistant city manager did say that the buildings would be built up to the street frontage as required by the urban code.  The site has a number of storm water easements on it - and a lot of the downtown drainage flows through the area.  And the area immediately to its west is a wetland.  

I do like the tuck-under parking under some of the buildings...  

 

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Yeah, and apparently the soil issues will require deeper-than-usual underground foundations, which raises costs.  I hadn't really thought about it, but City staff was saying there has been no new apartment construction in the entire city (not just downtown) in decades.  Crazy but true.  Anyway, here's the site plan from the meeting (still not final), which I like better than the earlier one.  

59ee9cde904e2_Forgeaptsnewersiteplan2.thumb.jpg.d378f723c09619af11d7a67cfb16c76f.jpg

The wetland was mentioned as a challenge for extending Converse Street, but I still think it's important to do that, at some point.  I generally feel more okay with this project now that I understand the extent of the challenges involved, both with our market and with this site.  The number of residents added will be a big plus.   I do think this makes it very important to insist on retail on the other corners of this intersection (like in a potential hotel).

 

Edited by westsider28
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I know I'm usually the first to argue for retail, but I think that retail in this spot would be tough. It's out on the edge of downtown in general, and it's not very visible. I think that it would be ideal to design some of the ground floor units to be convertible into retail at some point in the future, rather than trying to force it to happen when there's no market for it.

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This may be a bit bipolar, but after previously rationalizing this project somewhat, I'm now pissed again.  Looking more closely at the site plan, in which the un-cropped version below calls them "garden apartments", I think these may be planned to have open-air corridors and stairs (like your typical, stock suburban mega-complex). :sick: That's totally unacceptable in an urban context.  These need to have internal corridors and stairs and be true buildings.  I can't believe I didn't notice that before.  Unreal.  I hope the DRB eviscerates this setup, if it's the case.

59efb0426048c_Forgeaptsnewersiteplan.thumb.jpg.c925c993bb3fac8c8969d0bf9af69610.jpg

Edited by westsider28
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