Ballantyne

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

2 hours ago, sakami said:

Maybe eventually but without some big magnet like a (good) mall to bring people in from outside areas I tend to disagree. Perimeter Mall is a destination in and of itself and brings people in from all the surrounding areas outside of the normal 9-5 working hours. Other than birthday parties my kids attend at Sports Connection I have never found a reason to go to Ballantyne. 

There isn't a ton of difference between Perimeter and Carolina Place. There are 122 stores in Carolina place and 142 stores in Perimeter, and while Perimeter has 1 more Department store, but they aren't extremely far apart, both owned by Brookfield Properties, 1.2m to 1.5m sq ft. in size. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by CarolinaDaydreamin

[sakami]

8 hours ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

There isn't a ton of difference between Perimeter and Carolina Place. There are 122 stores in Carolina place and 142 stores in Perimeter, and while Perimeter has 1 more Department store, but they aren't extremely far apart, both owned by Brookfield Properties, 1.2m to 1.5m sq ft. in size. 

Have you been to Perimeter Mall? Their stores tend more toward upscale in comparison to CP with options like Apple, Lulu, and Brooks Brothers and the interior designs are drastically different. As a shopper it just feels like a very different experience. People from the north side of Atlanta head to Perimeter for a day of shopping and dining. I struggle to imagine people saying the same thing about Ballantyne today if they don’t live in the immediate area. Plus Perimeter has a MARTA stop out the back door and many, many shoppers ride that in from other parts ( mainly south)  of the city. 

[KJHburg]

the big difference between Ballantyne and Carolina Place area and Perimeter is about of office space.  Perimeter Mall area in ATL has over 22 million sq ft and Ballantyne area has about 5 mil sq ft. Perimeter Mall is dense and have several MARTA stops.

However the Perimeter area is very congested much more so than Ballantyne. 

[A2.]

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

the big difference between Ballantyne and Carolina Place area and Perimeter is about of office space.  Perimeter Mall area in ATL has over 22 million sq ft and Ballantyne area has about 5 mil sq ft. Perimeter Mall is dense and have several MARTA stops.

However the Perimeter area is very congested much more so than Ballantyne. 

I can validate that about the Perimeter Mall area. I used to live off Ashford-Dunwoody road, and even after the reconfiguration of the overpass, leaving after 4pm to hit 285 is a total nightmare. They still have officers out to assist the traffic flows. 

Ballantyne is no where near that level of congestion, and hopefully it won’t ever get there. That level of traffic isn’t a badge of urban honor, but rather a sign of urban sprawl that is what I, and many on UP, have a true disdain for. Density and transit oriented development is far more appealing than trying to cross town and taking an hour and a half to do.  No offense to my ATL peeps, but Atlanta is essentially a web of sprawl that encompasses the entire of  North GA. They are doing their best to remedy that, but it’s hard to put the Horse back in the barn given what’s developed there now.

A2

Edited January 20, 2020 by A2.

[jtmonk]

16 hours ago, KJHburg said:

That is crane for 11 story tower as the apartment tower has not started yet.  It will be to far left on this shot.

Are you sure about that?  The 11 story office tower is being constructed with a mobile crane, the tower crane is to the far left of it.   If the tower crane isn't for the apartment tower maybe its for the parking deck for the office tower?

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

4 hours ago, sakami said:

Have you been to Perimeter Mall? Their stores tend more toward upscale in comparison to CP with options like Apple, Lulu, and Brooks Brothers and the interior designs are drastically different. As a shopper it just feels like a very different experience. People from the north side of Atlanta head to Perimeter for a day of shopping and dining. I struggle to imagine people saying the same thing about Ballantyne today if they don’t live in the immediate area. Plus Perimeter has a MARTA stop out the back door and many, many shoppers ride that in from other parts ( mainly south)  of the city. 

Yes I worked on Perimeter Center West for 4 years. I'm not going to debate with you based on the quality of mall, however except for a recent renovation, Perimeter Mall is hardly a full day sales destination. I'm sure there are people who come from outside the area instead of driving 10 miles south to Buckhead, but Perimeter is only marginally more of a draw than CPM.

 

I don't think the mall itself is as big of a driver as the Marta line and the office buildings themselves. My parallel was that Ballentyne built out reminds me of the Perimeter especially 8-10 years ago. Obviously we are well behind the office space number of that market. The Marta stop(s) and the State Farm cluster of buildings are a much bigger driver. Light rail coming into Pineville and Ballentyne could replicate the success of development around the transit line. 

 

[Hushpuppy321]

5 hours ago, jtmonk said:

Are you sure about that?  The 11 story office tower is being constructed with a mobile crane, the tower crane is to the far left of it.   If the tower crane isn't for the apartment tower maybe its for the parking deck for the office tower?

I think what we’re looking at in this photo is:  To the Right = The 11 Story Steel Framed Office Building.  In the Middle = The parking deck footprint directly adjacent to the Concrete Retaining Walls and with the Ground Level Parking Deck Ramp already constructed and backfilled with Soil.  To the Left (Picture I’ve Added) = The Apartment Tower Site with Concrete Columns & Tower Crane Base Installed and under Construction.

It seems like Northwood Ravin is very serious about constructing Phase I of their Ballantyne Town Center Plans, but like any other Developer will move cautiously based on demand and broader economic conditions.  Hopefully their Rezoning petition currently under review will be approved by city council in the next few months.  NR’s strength is that they’re one contiguous owner of the Corporate Park (and developable acreage) and that CATS & the Transportation Committee are completely sold out on getting Lightrail to Ballantyne.  Only question mark will be clearing the Lightrail funding issue for Silverline and BLe-E (BlueLine extra Extension).

Edited January 20, 2020 by Hushpuppy321

[Desert Power]

Surprised Wells Fargo hasn't started a new tower here considering their space issues Uptown.

[Hushpuppy321]

2 minutes ago, Desert Power said:

Surprised Wells Fargo hasn't started a new tower here considering their space issues Uptown.

They took all of the last Tower Constructed here nearly 2 years ago.  I think they’d need to either purchase land and construct or just lease Northwood Ravins already under construction Office Tower.

[KJHburg]

so is the tower crane base for the parking deck that is between the office tower and apartment tower?

[Hushpuppy321]

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

so is the tower crane base for the parking deck that is between the office tower and apartment tower?

I don’t think so just based upon its positioning - it’s very close to the High Rise Residential Tower Columns and not that close to the Parking Deck Footprint.  If Northwood uses Prefab Parking Deck Construction methods they may not need that Tower Crane for the Parking Deck, only for the Residential Tower.

[jtmonk]

Crane going up today for the apartment building in Ballantyne.

[Hushpuppy321]

Anyone know if this is Ballantynes first Tower Crane?  I think all of the existing Office Buildings were constructed using Mobile Cranes.

[archiebarrier49]

I think Carolina place is more comparable to the Cumberland mall area. If we ever get a MLB team, the Ballantyne area would be perfect to put a stadium... similar to the new Atlanta Braves stadium in marietta georgia! 

[jtmonk]

On 1/25/2020 at 5:48 PM, Hushpuppy321 said:

Anyone know if this is Ballantynes first Tower Crane?  I think all of the existing Office Buildings were constructed using Mobile Cranes.

No, the aloft hotel had one and the apartment across 485 had one as well, I'm sure there were others too. 

[Hushpuppy321]

On 1/25/2020 at 9:12 PM, archiebarrier49 said:

I think Carolina place is more comparable to the Cumberland mall area. If we ever get a MLB team, the Ballantyne area would be perfect to put a stadium... similar to the new Atlanta Braves stadium in marietta georgia! 

I’ve thought about that prospect but I think a more centrally located Baseball Stadium would do better.  Like in Uptown, Southend or Northend

[jtmonk]

Another crane is up in Ballantyne, this time for the 14 story mixed use building.

[Hushpuppy321]

Ballantyne is really beginning to pick up steam with these three (3) High Rise Office, Apartment & Office/Hotel Buildings.  Also - I love driving north on Community House Rd across I-485 - looks like you’re going to run smack into the Apartments currently under construction.  Things are beginning to move fast.

[KJHburg]

went to Ballantyne this afternoon on business then saw the cranes and rolled by the major construction sites of the 3 new high rises.  This is biggest development boom ever in Charlotte now I hope you youngsters realize this.  Booming in Ballantyne, Southpark, Southend, Uptown, FreeMore, LoSo, University City, NoDa, etc etc.

Crane at the Panorama Tower in Ballantyne Village (did not drive by right by the site no time today)

Cranes and steel up on the new 11 story office building with next door crane for the apartment tower and parking garage. 

Hmm what happened to 5 days without rain and close to 60 today???  Brad Panovich where we at with that? 

 

 

[JacksonH]

On 2/16/2020 at 3:17 PM, KJHburg said:

went to Ballantyne this afternoon on business then saw the cranes and rolled by the major construction sites of the 3 new high rises.  This is biggest development boom ever in Charlotte now I hope you youngsters realize this.  Booming in Ballantyne, Southpark, Southend, Uptown, FreeMore, LoSo, University City, NoDa, etc etc.

Do you think Charlotte has been, or will be, defying whatever is happening at the national level?  Obviously Charlotte is growing faster than most U.S. cities, but is that growth being fueled by growth across the country, or is it in a category by itself? 

Some things I've read recently have struck me.  One is that most population growth in the country in recent years is not so much from immigration, but from new births, yet people are coming to Charlotte in droves, which means they must be leaving somewhere else within the U.S. and shrinking other cities.  Also, there was an article in Forbes about a week ago showing job numbers over the last six years.  The number of jobs created during each of the last three years of Obama were greater than the number of jobs created in any of the first three years under Trump.  And GDP dropped from 2.9% in 2018 to 2.3% in 2019 and was down to 2.1% in the most recent quarter.  Obviously that's not a recession but this all looks like signs of a slowdown.  But if you look at Charlotte it just seems like grow, grow, grow.  So I'm just wondering how long this pace can keep up. 

Maybe some of the growth is a bit of catching up from the lost years after the Great Recession?  And wasn't Charlotte hit pretty hard at that time (which would imply that Charlotte is  linked to what's going on on the nation level)?  If that's the case, if things slow down at the national level, shouldn't we expect that to happen in short order in Charlotte?  Eleven years of a national economic recovery is kind of crazy.  I can't see it going on indefinitely.  Maybe Charlotte is in a different place now than it was in 2008, in terms of weathering a storm.  I have noticed that much of the growth seems to be from purging corporations from other cities (e.g., Honeywell) as opposed to cities like Seattle where their growth is from new companies emerging organically (Boeing, Costco, Starbucks, Amazon, Microsoft).  Maybe this kind of "purge" growth in Charlotte is partly a sign of problems elsewhere (i.e., they're moving the Charlotte because they can no longer sustain the costs of where they were)?  A lot of questions here, but I'm just wondering about how things will play out in the long term.

[KJHburg]

Charlotte is greatly benefiting from relocations from higher cost places to live mainly NYC metro, DC metro and even south Florida.  Taxes in NY NJ and CT are high both income and property taxes it is driving people out.  Upper midwest is shrinking or slow growing too.  Charlotte is perceived by many a better size than an Atlanta and most of our competitor cities are roughly the same size Nashville, Orlando, Tampa St Pete and even Raleigh Durham.  

Our economy is much more diversified even in the financial sector as we are not a 2 bank town and we have many financial opportunities with US Bank, Ally, Truist, and smaller banks. Tech growth has been unbelievable which allows another dimension to the local market.  At last report we almost have as many tech jobs as Raleigh Durham which was unthinkable a few years ago.   Distribution and manufacturing in the surrounding counties is strong too.  Will there be slowdowns in the future for sure.  Will Charlotte hurt like the 2008/2009 severe recession I dont think so due to more diversification of the local economy.  

High cost states are driving people to move and I have seen many more California tags here locally than ever before.  But the top 5 states for relocation to NC are NY,  VA FL GA and SC.   Our tax structure is low in this state and that attracts companies and people. 

[videtur quam contuor]

27 minutes ago, JacksonH said:

Do you think Charlotte has been, or will be, defying whatever is happening at the national level?  Obviously Charlotte is growing faster than most U.S. cities, but is that growth being fueled by growth across the country, or is it in a category by itself? 

Some things I've read recently have struck me.  One is that most population growth in the country in recent years is not so much from immigration, but from new births, yet people are coming to Charlotte in droves, which means they must be leaving somewhere else within the U.S. and shrinking other cities.  Also, there was an article in Forbes about a week ago showing job numbers over the last six years.  The number of jobs created during each of the last three years of Obama were greater than the number of jobs created in any of the first three years under Trump.  And GDP dropped from 2.9% in 2018 to 2.3% in 2019 and was down to 2.1% in the most recent quarter.  Obviously that's not a recession but this all looks like signs of a slowdown.  But if you look at Charlotte it just seems like grow, grow, grow.  So I'm just wondering how long this pace can keep up. 

Maybe some of the growth is a bit of catching up from the lost years after the Great Recession?  And wasn't Charlotte hit pretty hard at that time (which would imply that Charlotte is  linked to what's going on on the nation level)?  If that's the case, if things slow down at the national level, shouldn't we expect that to happen in short order in Charlotte?  Eleven years of a national economic recovery is kind of crazy.  I can't see it going on indefinitely.  Maybe Charlotte is in a different place now than it was in 2008, in terms of weathering a storm.  I have noticed that much of the growth seems to be from purging corporations from other cities (e.g., Honeywell) as opposed to cities like Seattle where their growth is from new companies emerging organically (Boeing, Costco, Starbucks, Amazon, Microsoft).  Maybe this kind of "purge" growth in Charlotte is partly a sign of problems elsewhere (i.e., they're moving the Charlotte because they can no longer sustain the costs of where they were)?  A lot of questions here, but I'm just wondering about how things will play out in the long term.

https://www.ncdemography.org/2019/10/03/nc-is-rapidly-growing-where-are-our-new-residents-moving-from/

https://www.ncdemography.org/2019/07/24/raleigh-and-charlotte-are-among-fastest-growing-large-metros-in-the-united-states/

This was posted elsewhere in the population thread but in answer (somewhat) to your question today.

 

 

 

[Hushpuppy321]

2 hours ago, JacksonH said:

Do you think Charlotte has been, or will be, defying whatever is happening at the national level?  Obviously Charlotte is growing faster than most U.S. cities, but is that growth being fueled by growth across the country, or is it in a category by itself? 

Some things I've read recently have struck me.  One is that most population growth in the country in recent years is not so much from immigration, but from new births, yet people are coming to Charlotte in droves, which means they must be leaving somewhere else within the U.S. and shrinking other cities.  Also, there was an article in Forbes about a week ago showing job numbers over the last six years.  The number of jobs created during each of the last three years of Obama were greater than the number of jobs created in any of the first three years under Trump.  And GDP dropped from 2.9% in 2018 to 2.3% in 2019 and was down to 2.1% in the most recent quarter.  Obviously that's not a recession but this all looks like signs of a slowdown.  But if you look at Charlotte it just seems like grow, grow, grow.  So I'm just wondering how long this pace can keep up. 

Maybe some of the growth is a bit of catching up from the lost years after the Great Recession?  And wasn't Charlotte hit pretty hard at that time (which would imply that Charlotte is  linked to what's going on on the nation level)?  If that's the case, if things slow down at the national level, shouldn't we expect that to happen in short order in Charlotte?  Eleven years of a national economic recovery is kind of crazy.  I can't see it going on indefinitely.  Maybe Charlotte is in a different place now than it was in 2008, in terms of weathering a storm.  I have noticed that much of the growth seems to be from purging corporations from other cities (e.g., Honeywell) as opposed to cities like Seattle where their growth is from new companies emerging organically (Boeing, Costco, Starbucks, Amazon, Microsoft).  Maybe this kind of "purge" growth in Charlotte is partly a sign of problems elsewhere (i.e., they're moving the Charlotte because they can no longer sustain the costs of where they were)?  A lot of questions here, but I'm just wondering about how things will play out in the long term.

The only thing that’ll slow down Charlotte (except another major nationwide recession) is bad planning and lack of transit funding.  These things as well as out of control violence really hurts livability and causes people and eventually jobs to leave.  If we as a region can invest in expanding transit, keep areas beautiful/livable this region will thrive.   Many many people are coming here from other major cities mostly due to cost of living as well as employment opportunities.  Cost of living brought me and my family down from NY.

[KJHburg]

Was in the area today.  New apartment and office tower rising on Ballantyne Corparate Place and the Panorama Tower mixed used office and hotel at Ballantyne Village. ( Photos 2 and 5) 

 

[KJHburg]

Ballantyne reimagined public hearing tonight with City Council chiming in wanting more affordable housing here.

https://charlotteledger.substack.com/p/council-members-say-ballantyne-needs