Ballantyne

[SgtCampsalot]

I'm not going to get into this escalated scuffle except to say: Home ownership is not inherently a good investment, and is more often than not a liability rather than an asset. Putting down roots, and paying into something can certainly be exactly what many need to excel in life, but it's not necessarily right for everyone, and it could be argued would be better served by doing so in a duplex, or row of townhomes, etc, so that you can generate revenue.

The idea that home values will inexorably rise into oblivion is a fallacy, in the same vein as viewing the building of endless greenfield houses is the ultimate sign of "growth" in our economy. And yes, many new ones built now have amazing urban design with small yards (and sometimes token retail nodes in the really fancy ones), but they're still super far from everything else that already exists, meaning it is not absorbing any excess car trips. 

No matter what we're building, that's what we need to be working around: what already exists.

Edited August 24, 2016 by SgtCampsalot

[cjd5050]

51 minutes ago, kermit said:

Gezzus, you are the king of the cherrypickers. TOD in and of itself need not be expensive. Our current zoning generally requires unnecessary things in tod like parking, more thoughtful urban design is capable of giving us affordable TOD living (which you can read all about in my comments up thread). 

While we are discussing reading comprehension my other large point is that even cheap suburban housing is going to become cost prohibitive to middle and lower class folks as economic forces (like growing congestion) make that environment much more costly. Your devotion to that model is just reshuffling deck chairs.

TOD is fantastic.  But TOD is just a single tool to help cities progress and deal with growth.  The reason I think this is that there are multiple factors to consider in the goal of TOD outside of the return.  Factors that often make it difficult or impossible to implement.  

I agree 100% with you on parking issues.  I despise parking lots but I accept that parking does need to exist because you can't run light rail everywhere and people do need to move between place to place.  Where we diverge is the place of the car.  In thinking about cars I am looking at it from a 30 to 50 year perspective.  In that perspective I think cars will exist but they will move to powered by electricity.  Which is why I mentioned I was so excited about the Tesla/SolarCity stuff.  I also think that we will move away from the concept of a personal vehicle and move towards shared cars either by services like Uber or Car2Go.  I think the combination of these two will remove the environmental issue in a matter of time.  

Where we seem to disagree the most of where 'urban design' should exist.  You appear to want to take the absolute position that only urban design should be created moving forward.  While noble, I simply don't see this as plausible.  I think that it should be the ideal but I also think you have to deal with situations where the ideal can't be implemented.  

This rounds us back to places like Ballantyne.  It's a complex that has thousands of jobs and some retail but it's missing the residential element almost entirely.  Compounding things is it has a horrible layout that is design for the car to be considered 1st, 2nd and 3rd.  I don't want another Ballantyne.

What I do want is to improve upon Ballantyne.  I want to do this because I know other projects like Ballantyne are going to be built.  I can't stop it so I hope for the best outcome.  

As RDF and I were discussing, Ballantyne could have been done better and it can be improved.  I can see replacing all of those crappy parking lots with a few parking ramps off the road and then build mixed use buildings facing the road.  Filling in more green space for the rest.  This would do a couple of things beyond providing all of the desirable elements that Ballantyne enjoys right now that others have mentioned.:

1- It would create a much better sense of space and make walkable migration between structures much more pleasant.

2- It would add a significant amount of housing around the office space that would be serviced by the same level of retail.  Making it desirable to both those who work there and those who didn't.

3- It would continue to keep this an an outpost by adding even more density for both workers, residents and visitors.  Which in turn assists with the implementation of shared cars via Uber and Car2Go.  

 

I want to make lemonade from lemons.  I feel you got a bowl of lemons and are saying screw it...we're drinking martinis.  

I know we don't agree on this but I must say that I am enjoying the back and forth immensely and I hope you don't take my tone as anything as passion for my personal beliefs.  

 

[kermit]

46 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

I want to make lemonade from lemons.  I feel you got a bowl of lemons and are saying screw it...we're drinking martinis.  

Kinda, but as I said, I am not trying to make Charlotte more expensive, I want more and cheaper urbanism. This becomes feasible when a city doesn't have the economic and cultural noose of sprawl around its neck. I started this discussion by saying that Charloteans need to let go of the car (which is totally possible for some but certainly not all people), I have come to believe that the only way to accomplish this is by letting the burbs continue their decay. It's not that I want anybody to be punished, it's just that I think it's the only way to create change. So, to me, the lemonade strategy is merely throwing good money after bad.

A very dogmatic view of neoclassical economics might explain where I am coming from. High prices signal demand is high relative supply (which is our current situation with urban living options. The dogmatic solution is to build more to 1) satisfy demand and 2) lower prices

The reverse situation exists in the burbs, prices are low signaling an oversupply. If we build more we are simply exacerbating an already bad economic situation.

I do understand what you are saying about changes in auto tech. However  those same forces will reduce the need for urbanites to own cars as well which will substantially reduce the cost of living there. 

I'll echo my appreciation for the discussion as well but hopefully this is over and out until the next topic.

[Nick2]

5 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Reimagining this district will be tough. It can be done though. It can definitely be done. Next time I have free time I might redesign it with the existing buildings taken into consideration.

 

6 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

Thanks for this.

It does answer a lot.  It also makes me sad because it's obvious that Ballantyne missed the mark in so many areas.  I think the picture below is a perfect example of this.

My hope is that at some point in the future this gets redeveloped.  Parking lots eventually replaced with parking ramps, mixed use buildings and the like.  Maybe if the River District can find a way to show it can be done that will move the dial?

 

I think it's doable. 

Add a lot of midrise and even a couple of high rise apartments throughout and a good amount of retail with nice walkways and bike lanes. Have there be a lot of parking decks to compensate the lost parking space. Essentially make this area a workable, livable, playable massive village-type area. It could work.

In my dreams, they'll extend blue line out to the west to meet up with this area. either going by carolina place mall or along pineville mathews road. But hey, who knows what could happen 10-15 or even 20 years down the road. Especially with charlotte densifying majorly.

[kickazzz2000]

56 minutes ago, Nick2 said:

 

I think it's doable. 

Add a lot of midrise and even a couple of high rise apartments throughout and a good amount of retail with nice walkways and bike lanes. Have there be a lot of parking decks to compensate the lost parking space. Essentially make this area a workable, livable, playable massive village-type area. It could work.

In my dreams, they'll extend blue line out to the west to meet up with this area. either going by carolina place mall or along pineville mathews road. But hey, who knows what could happen 10-15 or even 20 years down the road. Especially with charlotte densifying majorly.

Even something like Reston Town Center would have/can be better than what we have.  Granted, the other side of Johnston is a little bit better (taller towers, random retail spots thrown in)

[Crown]

And the worst kept secret in charlotte is out: 

Could iconic Charlotte developer Bissell, Ballantyne’s owner, sell the firm?

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article100380472.html

 

[KJHburg]

The newest 10 story Ballantyne office tower is finishing up now. It has great golf course views and free deck parking I am sure some company will lease it or a big chunk of it. There is probably not a new office building on a golf course anywhere in America right now. 

New Hampton Inn at Toringdon and it looks like grading for the apartments there has started too. That is really a live work shop stay complex. 

[Crown]

Wells Fargo has leased the Brigham Building in Ballantyne - 287,000 sf, 1600 employees.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article111648427.html

 

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by Crown

[CLT2014]

Looks like Wells is trying to do what BAC did for a while and operate a Ballantyne office for the South Charlotte crowd that doesn't like commuting to Uptown. It is interesting that they bypassed 615 S College and 300 S Tryon that are walking distance to the rest of their offices. Perhaps those are still in play for Wells Fargo if they really are planning on expanding even more. 

" Wells Fargo is still working to identify which teams will move to the new Ballantyne location, which the company said will provide convenient access for employees, reduce many commute times and offer space for future growth. The company said its continued growth uptown since the 2008 purchase of Wachovia has strained its existing space."

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by CLT2014

[KJHburg]

Interesting in trying to see where Ballantyne goes next with the Brigham Bldg now leased I saw their 2 options on the webpage. Campus A option I have seen before but Option B with taller buildings seems new and it takes over at least 2 of the golf holes. http://www.bissellleasing.com/ballantyne/build-to-suit/  Anyone have any insight on this?

[cjd5050]

11 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Interesting in trying to see where Ballantyne goes next with the Brigham Bldg now leased I saw their 2 options on the webpage. Campus A option I have seen before but Option B with taller buildings seems new and it takes over at least 2 of the golf holes. http://www.bissellleasing.com/ballantyne/build-to-suit/  Anyone have any insight on this?

Those parking ramps will destroy those holes but parking ramps ruin so much of Ballantyne.  If they would have stacked the buildings on top of the ramps they could have provided more of a setback from the course and offered better views.  

 

[Merthecat]

Does anyone have an update on the timeline of the new Whole Foods?  I was under the impression that it was to open this quarter of the year, but no announcement has been made, so far as I can tell.

[Guest]

Word on the street is Northwood Investments, parent of Northwood Ravin is purchasing $1.2B worth of inventory from Bissell. Hopefully this signals a wholesale redesign and reimagining of the Ballantyne Corporate Park, which is easily 80% wasted space. Northwood is definitely focused on more infill development, and in my opinion, if the parking situation was centralized and restructed, you could make one hell of a live/work/play community. 

 

[KJHburg]

Here is the new 10 story 287,500 sq ft Ballantyne office building that was fully leased to Wells Fargo and adjacent garage. That size lease is the biggest new lease in Charlotte for 2016 and 2nd biggest in the entire south only beat by a 400,000 sq ft lease by GA Tech in the new CODA building in Atlanta. Other than those 2 leases everything else office wise in the south is smaller.   I think Bissell will start on the hotel next door next. 

[deleted]

^^

Even for Ballantyne, that's an ugly garage (maybe they aren't done..?).

[KJHburg]

15 minutes ago, JBS said:

^^

Even for Ballantyne, that's an ugly garage (maybe they aren't done..?).

Probably is finished except for the landscaping. They need some tall Italian cypress trees that grow straight up all along it. Now I was on the side road from Community House Rd the main entrance but it is ;ugly. 

[KJHburg]

Sprouts pulled a permit for their 29,896 sq ft store at 521 and Providence Rd west store. https://www.sprouts.com/

[easzman]

What does "pulled a permit" mean? They backed out?

[videtur quam contuor]

"Pulled" in this sense means that the developer requested a permit with accompanying documents and the permit was approved and issued. Pulled=issued.

[KJHburg]

Biggest real estate transaction in NC and Charlotte history. All of Ballantyne office buildings but the one Bank of America leases and the one SPX owns will be sold. Over $1 Billion transaction. http://businessnc.com/northwoods-buying-bissell-record-billion-dollar-deal-sources-say/

[cjd5050]

6 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Biggest real estate transaction in NC and Charlotte history. All of Ballantyne office buildings but the one Bank of America leases and the one SPX owns will be sold. Over $1 Billion transaction. http://businessnc.com/northwoods-buying-bissell-record-billion-dollar-deal-sources-say/

Found some change in the couch I see.  

[KJHburg]

Interview with Northwood the new owner of Ballantyne Corporate Park and the hotels. They hint at more residential and even high rise residential according to this interview in the Business Journal: With Wells Fargo taking the Brigham Building, you’re pretty much fully leased, (so) there should be another product coming. I think we have to decide exactly where that’s going to be. We’re also thinking about bringing some other uses in. Ned, with David (Ravin, president and CEO of Northwood Ravin), is working with the team on where the best spots are to bring in some apartments. What type of apartments? What is the right design for apartments coming into Ballantyne? Is it high-rise, is it mid-rise, is it townhomes? What’s the right product to bring in here and where?

They even hint at redeveloping parts of the west side of the park where there is much more surface parking as the leases expire tenants move etc. It sounds they have great plans for the park.  This was the biggest real estate transaction in NC history too over $1 Billion! 

[HopHead]

^Anytime you look at an aerial of Ballantyne, it's nauseating with all the surface parking. Lots of room for improvement with some infill. Hope to see that change with some mid and high rises here. 

[Guest]

^Anytime you look at an aerial of Ballantyne, it's nauseating with all the surface parking. Lots of room for improvement with some infill. Hope to see that change with some mid and high rises here. 

96 acres, just in the corp center alone.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[KJHburg]

Check out this 2016 aerial of Ballantyne Corporate Park. There is plenty of opportunity for redevelopment of the surface parking lots on the west side of the park however with such a high occupancy now in the park something like 97% they can't really do anything until tenants leave. However I am sure in 10 years this photo will look very different especially on that side. http://www.ballantynecorporate.com/content/uploads/2017/03/BCP-PhotoAerial-2016.pdf  More parking garages and taller building were done on the east side where the golf course is.