MLS in Charlotte - 2021

[cjd5050]

6 minutes ago, HopHead said:

If you want a community to come together for a sports, then you should want the Hornets. As an organization, they've done more for Charlotte than all the other sports teams in this town (and I love the Panthers). They have been inconsistent on the court, but their dedication to the in game experience, community work, etc is second to none. I would never give that up. 

I don't have a problem with the Hornets.  I know they mean a lot to the city and gladly have no issue with any money that's being spent on them or to keep them.  Was just saying from a personal level I am not a fan of the sport or the team.  Listen to AM/Sports radio and hear good things.  Happy for whatever success they get and proud that Charlotte has a NBA team.  Also very cool that they give back.  

That said, I think MLS can for sure service a different segment of fans with different needs.  Similar to how lucky Charlotte is to have a minor league baseball team and even a minor league hockey team.  The approachability and affordability for these is much different than the Panthers or Hornets and that's a great thing.  

Not 100% sure but it looks like a family of 4 can go to 2 MLS games for the price of 1 NBA game.  That matters to me.  

Also, the opportunity to 'dump' 15,000 to 20,000 people into the Elizabeth neighborhood 18 times a summer is a huge benefit.  I can envision Uptown being taken over by families during the summer as they take the Blue line in and either head to BB&T or a new MLS stadium.  Could have the same impact, if not more, than a NFL game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[J-Rob]

29 minutes ago, HopHead said:

If you want a community to come together for a sports, then you should want the Hornets. As an organization, they've done more for Charlotte than all the other sports teams in this town (and I love the Panthers). They have been inconsistent on the court, but their dedication to the in game experience, community work, etc is second to none. I would never give that up. 

To that point, here is a great piece from the Observer. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/article128235739.html  "In response to September unrest in Charlotte, Hornets players and coaches will fund two college scholarships but they intend to mentor the students too."

Have to give Kudos too to some of the individual players in the Panthers organization.  I agree, as a whole, the Hornets organization is top of the line in community involvement, but Thomas Davis, Greg Olsen, and others have individually been very active in the community.

[Jack152]

52 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

Never would be considered a 'soccer' fan but if they create a fan culture similar to what's in Portland and mimicking Europe...I'll gladly get involved by becoming a fan and going to games. 

 

I'd love to have an MLS team here, but I'll pass on the "mimicking Europe" part. We can be soccer fans without being posers. Which is what those Portland fans are. Enthusiastic posers, but posers nonetheless.

[HopHead]

2 minutes ago, J-Rob said:

To that point, here is a great piece from the Observer. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/article128235739.html  "In response to September unrest in Charlotte, Hornets players and coaches will fund two college scholarships but they intend to mentor the students too."

Have to give Kudos too to some of the individual players in the Panthers organization.  I agree, as a whole, the Hornets organization is top of the line in community involvement, but Thomas Davis, Greg Olsen, and others have individually been very active in the community.

Oh, without question Panthers players have been very active in the community. Greg Olsen is a finalist for the Walter Payton man of the year award too. 

[cjd5050]

35 minutes ago, Jack152 said:

I'd love to have an MLS team here, but I'll pass on the "mimicking Europe" part. We can be soccer fans without being posers. Which is what those Portland fans are. Enthusiastic posers, but posers nonetheless.

Admittedly, I don't know much about what makes up good fans but what I have been told by people who have been to Portland matches is that it's simply fun.   The chants and all of that..   On the flip side, some sporting events are more of a wine and cheese event.  Great if you really love the sport and want to focus but not ideal if you're looking to have a fun experience.   Also, packed pubs to watch a match...that would be awesome.   If it can come close to the energy that was at Pubs during the last World Cup...worth the trip out for sure.  

As I said before, not really a huge fan of soccer but very much willing to embrace it.  Have always found my interactions with soccer events to be fun.  

[tozmervo]

FWIW, the Smith proposal is generally not playing well on Charlotte Talks this morning. Many of the city/county politicians are either against the concept in general, or are unwilling to commit that kind of money in such a rush with so little time for vetting and public input.

[HopHead]

6 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

FWIW, the Smith proposal is generally not playing well on Charlotte Talks this morning. Many of the city/county politicians are either against the concept in general, or are unwilling to commit that kind of money in such a rush with so little time for vetting and public input.

Yea, that's what I read last night on Twitter with regard to some local politicians. I think the county politicians are more likely to squash this deal than the city given where the money would come from -- at least the county is allowing people to speak today. The city money would be from the hotel/tourism tax and the county would come from a general fund (I think). Anytime you give out tax money, it's not going to sit well with some folks. I'm still in the camp that they could and should broker a better deal with the Smiths. Not sure that will happen though. 

[CLT2014]

I'd rather get a $200 property tax refund check. This isn't a public park where I technically have free access, even if it isn't on my side of town. I could always go to another area of town and use the park, and people on another side of town could use one near my house. It is a stadium for a billionaire where I'll have to then 1.) Pay to park 2.) Pay for tickets 3.) Pay for food (Because NO OUTSIDE FOOD OR DRINKS) after my property taxes paid for a portion of the structure. I don't think my property values, nor most people in Charlotte, will see a value increase due to an MLS team either. 

There are people struggling to make ends meet in Charlotte. People that a property tax refund could make a big difference. There are competing priorities, such as increasing teacher pay, improving our schools, helping the poor and homeless, building a new community center, etc... that this money could go towards and impact many more people. 

Edited January 24, 2017 by CLT2014

[SgtCampsalot]

Even though I'm increasingly wanting a MLS team of my own now, the prospect of inevitably needing to fund a new Panthers stadium with Richardson dies is now making this whole process feel like that time of the month in my home finances where I've already gotten take-out five times this week, I've got my rent and car payment coming up, and my best friend calls and says we're all going out to VBGB and Tammy is gonna be there and she's single now. WELL IT LOOKS LIKE I'M USING MY CREDIT CARD

[kermit]

^ Tammy is pretty great!

[deleted]

3 hours ago, HopHead said:

I'm still in the camp that they could and should broker a better deal with the Smiths.

Frankly, I've swung to the other side completely.  I really want this to happen but agree with you that they can and should get a better deal from Smith.  I was moved (amazingly) by the CO editorial on the topic.  If we can't limit public participation to roughly $50 Million, I'd pass.  If they can and retain ownership of the facility and eliminate the loan, it would seem to be a good deal for everyone.  Ultimately, this will come down to how badly they want a team.  They certainly have the money...

3 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

I'd rather get a $200 property tax refund check.

It's a shell game I guess but isn't the money coming from a fund that by law must be used on tourism/cultural projects?

3 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

I'd love to have an MLS team here, but I'll pass on the "mimicking Europe" part. We can be soccer fans without being posers. Which is what those Portland fans are.

Agreed.  I also hope that you are allowed to sit at games.  I went to a Sounders game last year in Seattle and bought great seats...not realizing that I would be forced to stand the ENTIRE game (or not be able to see).  No thanks.  I just want to enjoy the soccer, not be focused on chanting all game.

[hokiehigh]

So if we vote it down, our loss should be Raleigh's gain?   I would be happy for Raleigh but that would probably prevent us from having a team in the future.  

[CLT2014]

4 minutes ago, JBS said:

Frankly, I've swung to the other side completely.  I really want this to happen but agree with you that they can and should get a better deal from Smith.  I was moved (amazingly) by the CO editorial on the topic.  If we can't limit public participation to roughly $50 Million, I'd pass.  If they can and retain ownership of the facility and eliminate the loan, it would seem to be a good deal for everyone.  Ultimately, this will come down to how badly they want a team.  They certainly have the money...

It's a shell game I guess but isn't the money coming from a fund that by law must be used on tourism/cultural projects?

My understanding is the city of Charlotte $43.75 million will come from hotel/rental car/ tourism industry taxes, whereas Mecklenburg County's $43.75 million will come from property taxes. 

[SouthEndCLT811]

6 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

My understanding is the city of Charlotte $43.75 million will come from hotel/rental car/ tourism industry taxes, whereas Mecklenburg County's $43.75 million will come from property taxes. 

Correct, city has $221M in tourism fund per Erik Spanberg at CBJ and if the stadium was approved there would be $46M available for other projects.  Going off topic I wonder what that other money is for, convention center maybe?

Edit: Here's the tweet

 

Edited January 24, 2017 by SouthEndCLT811

[tozmervo]

18 minutes ago, hokiehigh said:

So if we vote it down, our loss should be Raleigh's gain?   I would be happy for Raleigh but that would probably prevent us from having a team in the future.  

That makes a significant assumption that Raleigh is anywhere close to ready to make the Jan 31 bid deadline, too. Last I was aware, they have no stadium site discussed and no formal funding structure yet.

[SouthEndCLT811]

9 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

That makes a significant assumption that Raleigh is anywhere close to ready to make the Jan 31 bid deadline, too. Last I was aware, they have no stadium site discussed and no formal funding structure yet.

100% private financing by their ownership

[tozmervo]

Just now, SouthEndCLT811 said:

100% private financing by their ownership

n/m. they're in great position, then.

[cjd5050]

37 minutes ago, JBS said:

Agreed.  I also hope that you are allowed to sit at games.  I went to a Sounders game last year in Seattle and bought great seats...not realizing that I would be forced to stand the ENTIRE game (or not be able to see).  No thanks.  I just want to enjoy the soccer, not be focused on chanting all game.

Oh that's lame.  Did not realize that.  I have always found the issue was on the other end of the spectrum.   If you get good seats at a Notre Dame game, the 'greys', yell at you for standing during parts of the game.  

[SouthEndCLT811]

New MLS stadiums are being built with safe standing supporters sections.  Stands are at a high incline to provide an intimidating venue but railing between to prevent people from tumbling down from the top row.  Unfortunately for JBS he may have been in the supporters section, went to Orlando City and if you were in their end zones standing would have been the only option but I was able to sit quite comfortably at midfield.

Edited January 24, 2017 by SouthEndCLT811

[tozmervo]

On our 11-voting-member city council, 5 are on the record as voting no on the proposal. Between the city and county, the city should be the easier sell. I'd wager money this plan isn't going to pan out.

[videtur quam contuor]

City (and I) remember this negotiation:

http://www.starnewsonline.com/news/20040804/disputed-property-sold-by-racetrack

It was meaninglessly petty before and after by Smith, in my opinion.

[Desert Power]

Shame we're not going to get a real chance at the MLS

[cltbwimob]

10 hours ago, tozmervo said:

On our 11-voting-member city council, 5 are on the record as voting no on the proposal. Between the city and county, the city should be the easier sell. I'd wager money this plan isn't going to pan out.

From my count it's 4 Dems and one Repub as "no" votes.  Almost certain the other Republican on council will be a "no" as well which means that this deal is almost assuredly toast unless someone changes their mind between now and the 31st, or unless the county can do a deal alone.

I am somewhat torn about this.  On the one hand I saw huge potential for an MLS stadium in Elizabeth.  Supposedly they would have incorporated some or perhaps all the historic features of the ALMS into the new stadium, and there was the potential not just for Soccer and MLL games, but also FCS/D2/D3 football championships, Shrine Bowls, outdoor concerts, etc. It could have been a hub of activity pretty much year-round.   Furthermore it is one of my dreams to have teams from the NBA, NFL, AHL, MLB, and MLS all represented in the city...This deal would put us one sport away from realizing that dream.

On the other hand, given the fact that the deal negotiated with the Panthers expires in a few years, and the need for a long term solution for them and BofA stadium, I think spending this kind of money on MLS is kind of dumb.  If we plan on keeping the Panthers long-term, it is in our best interest to be able to fund a new round of renovations at BofA in exchange for a long term tether to Charlotte rather than just hoping Jerry Richardson never dies (although I would certainly be glad if he stayed with us forever). ~$100 million that may otherwise be used to build a soccer stadium could go a long way toward those renovations, and to be honest, if the money is going to be spent for a sports stadium anyways, I think people would 10 to 1 rather it be spent on keeping the Panthers around.  Gaining an MLS team is not even remotely close to a consolation prize if you lose an NFL team.

If we are going to pursue a new sport for the city, I say we start plotting a our moves for MLB.  I expect in the next 8-10 years there will be an opportunity to get one either through an A's/Rays relo or expansion.  Compared to MLB, MLS is small-time anyways.  If we had NBA, NFL, MLB, and AHL, I would be content.  Maybe for soccer Independence could move up to NASL and serve as a "D-League" club for a hypothetical Raleigh team.

[southslider]

I was over it once I learned Bruton Smith was connected in any way. I suspect that tainted trickster lost the proposal some significant votes and support. No deal this round of expansion. 

[Jack152]

6 hours ago, cltbwimob said:

Maybe for soccer Independence could move up to NASL and serve as a "D-League" club for a hypothetical Raleigh team.

NASL is probably going out of business, so that won't be an option. Besides, the Independence owners' main goal has always been MLS. USL was considered a stepping stone to get there. If Raleigh gets the team, there's a good chance that Charlotte Independence shuts down for good. Especially considering their current stadium situation (or lack thereof).