MLS in Charlotte - 2021

[SouthEndCLT811]

21 minutes ago, Jack152 said:

NASL is probably going out of business, so that won't be an option. Besides, the Independence owners' main goal has always been MLS. USL was considered a stepping stone to get there. If Raleigh gets the team, there's a good chance that Charlotte Independence shuts down for good. Especially considering their current stadium situation (or lack thereof).

Yeah USL and NASL are essentially on the same level in terms of relevance with the USSF decision to move USL to D2 status.  I fear we lose out on the Smith's bid, Jim who owns Independence will either try to move forward with Phase 1 Memorial and play the long game for MLS or puts the team up for sale/folds.  Worst case we go from potential of MLS to no teams in Charlotte at all.

[SgtCampsalot]

Could a MLS stadium really truly fit at the Memorial site? I keep going by there and it seems dubious.

Though I'm sure it wouldn't have gotten this far if it couldn't...

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Could a MLS stadium really truly fit at the Memorial site? I keep going by there and it seems dubious.

Though I'm sure it wouldn't have gotten this far if it couldn't...

I mean the stadium formerly held 24,000 people before they removed some of the stands for structural problems. There are parking lots surrounding it and the Grady Cole Center. It'll be intimate I'm sure, but it'll definitely fit.

[SouthEndCLT811]

8 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Could a MLS stadium really truly fit at the Memorial site? I keep going by there and it seems dubious.

Though I'm sure it wouldn't have gotten this far if it couldn't...

It'd be a tight fit that's for sure.  But it'd be along the lines of Sporting KC's stadium width using the ultra-sophisticated method of measuring width/length along surrounding roads on MapMyRun.com

Look at the stadium itself and not the outer area.  I'm sure the plan would probably use Independence Park/Grady Cole area as the main open space outside the stadium.

[Missmylab4]

If the Smiths don't pony up some more cash in this deal, this plan won't pass in my opinion. Guess we'll find out how much the Smiths believe in their vision. I'd like a MLS team, I just think if Raleigh's backing will completely self finance the Smiths could too. I'm guessing they'd be near the top of the rich list of MLS owners.

[CLT2014]

Looking like Charlotte isn't going to pony up the money in the current deal. I am glad the city isn't throwing itself at the Smith family and MLS in this rushed proposal without more input from citizens and small businesses. 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article128635614.html

[kermit]

We may be witnessing the end of the era of publicly financed stadiums -- I am surprised that the city is balking at spending their tourism tax dollars here but I am enjoying seeing the Smith's bad behavior come back to haunt them.

While I am not a soccer fan I did think an MLS team would be a nice addition to the city at Memorial.

Edited January 25, 2017 by kermit

[CLT2014]

9 minutes ago, kermit said:

We may be witnessing the end of the era of publicly financed stadiums -- I am surprised that the city is balking at spending their tourism tax dollars here. I am also enjoying the schadenfreude of the Smith's past behavior coming back to bite them.

While I am not a soccer fan I did think an MLS team would be a nice addition to the city at Memorial.

I'm surprised the city is the one balking as well. The city was at least going to utilize tourism tax dollars to fund the stadium. I have an issue with Mecklenburg County's funding source of using property tax revenue from homeowners and business owners. 

[atlrvr]

I'm disappointed.

MLS games average higher attendance than NFL of MLB, and is the fastest growing sport in terms of ticket sales in the US.  I suspect that MLS will replace the NHL in the pantheon of Big 4 professional leagues in the next 10 years.

I'm def biased, as I played soccer in HS, play currently in a men's league, and coach my own son in soccer, and recently have begun to watch Bundesliga on Fox Sports (sometimes EPL or MLS as well).  I also have Panthers season tix, and go to some Hornets games a year.....all that just to indicate that I'm probably on the very supportive end.

One caveat though, as someone who played HS in Charlotte and now coach youth soccer, and witnessing the growth of the sport and talent level here, soccer is BOOMING.  The cohort of people who played and now have kids that play is dramatically increasing annually, and this builds a true base.  Also, the ramifications around concussions in the NFL is diluting the talent pool in youth sports, and longer term you will see an increasing shift in quality of US talent here (at the expense of other sports leagues, but primarily NFL and secondarily MLB).

I would warn everyone (I guess the decision makers most importantly), that passing now will likely be a major regret in 10-15 years, and the price to entry (if it's even possible) will be multiples higher.

The decision makers are unfortunately either too old or childless to see how quickly the sports paradigm is shifting, especially at the youth level.

[KJHburg]

This is interesting and I would not count Raleigh Durham out yet http://businessnc.com/soccer-may-pit-smiths-charlotte-vs-goodmons-triangle/

[Niner National]

2 hours ago, atlrvr said:

I'm disappointed.

MLS games average higher attendance than NFL of MLB, and is the fastest growing sport in terms of ticket sales in the US.  I suspect that MLS will replace the NHL in the pantheon of Big 4 professional leagues in the next 10 years.

I'm def biased, as I played soccer in HS, play currently in a men's league, and coach my own son in soccer, and recently have begun to watch Bundesliga on Fox Sports (sometimes EPL or MLS as well).  I also have Panthers season tix, and go to some Hornets games a year.....all that just to indicate that I'm probably on the very supportive end.

One caveat though, as someone who played HS in Charlotte and now coach youth soccer, and witnessing the growth of the sport and talent level here, soccer is BOOMING.  The cohort of people who played and now have kids that play is dramatically increasing annually, and this builds a true base.  Also, the ramifications around concussions in the NFL is diluting the talent pool in youth sports, and longer term you will see an increasing shift in quality of US talent here (at the expense of other sports leagues, but primarily NFL and secondarily MLB).

I would warn everyone (I guess the decision makers most importantly), that passing now will likely be a major regret in 10-15 years, and the price to entry (if it's even possible) will be multiples higher.

The decision makers are unfortunately either too old or childless to see how quickly the sports paradigm is shifting, especially at the youth level.

The decision makers are ultimately the citizens--and they've overwhelmingly spoken out against it.

I think it'd be cool to have a team here, but I'm tired of public financing for venues--especially when the teams carve out all the most valuable revenue sources for themselves. They don't even try to make a fair deal with the cities, they want all the profit and as little of the expense as possible.

If the Smiths would give up the naming rights funds until the initial funding by the city/county is repaid, I'd 100% be on board, but there is a 100% chance they will not do that.

[HopHead]

2 hours ago, atlrvr said:

I'm disappointed.

MLS games average higher attendance than NFL of MLB, and is the fastest growing sport in terms of ticket sales in the US.  I suspect that MLS will replace the NHL in the pantheon of Big 4 professional leagues in the next 10 years.

I'm def biased, as I played soccer in HS, play currently in a men's league, and coach my own son in soccer, and recently have begun to watch Bundesliga on Fox Sports (sometimes EPL or MLS as well).  I also have Panthers season tix, and go to some Hornets games a year.....all that just to indicate that I'm probably on the very supportive end.

One caveat though, as someone who played HS in Charlotte and now coach youth soccer, and witnessing the growth of the sport and talent level here, soccer is BOOMING.  The cohort of people who played and now have kids that play is dramatically increasing annually, and this builds a true base.  Also, the ramifications around concussions in the NFL is diluting the talent pool in youth sports, and longer term you will see an increasing shift in quality of US talent here (at the expense of other sports leagues, but primarily NFL and secondarily MLB).

I would warn everyone (I guess the decision makers most importantly), that passing now will likely be a major regret in 10-15 years, and the price to entry (if it's even possible) will be multiples higher.

The decision makers are unfortunately either too old or childless to see how quickly the sports paradigm is shifting, especially at the youth level.

I would actually dispute those MLS attendance claims. Without even looking it's not close to the NFL. That has to be in the high 60,000s. Just looking at 2016, MLB had average of 30,517. MLS was 21,692. The average is obviously higher than the NBA and NHL because both those sports only have a handful of venues that exceed 20,000 person capacity. For MLS to really break into the big 4 (I agree if they supplant anyone, it would be the NHL) they need to increase the TV revenues and ratings. The amount of TV money the NFL, NBA and MLB get alone is enormous. The NBA has a new TV contract that exceeds over $2B per year with ESPN and Turner. NFL is something like $7B. Until TV ratings go up substantially, they won't get those mega deals from the networks. The MLS Cup final had a .79 rating despite being moved to a Saturday (for comparison the bowl game between App State and Toledo had a .90 rating). I assume they follow the same pattern of jersey advertising that the European clubs do so that's obviously a way to make up for some of it. NBA just started doing it with a few teams. Wouldn't be surprised to see others follow suite.

I'm not much of a soccer fan so I don't want to pretend to be overly knowledgeable, but from what I've seen the biggest problem is most all of talent that is developed here goes to Europe for the competition and bigger pay days. I think if the US were to ever win the men's World Cup, that would do wonders for the sport here. Because we all know how much we like winners. Also, regarding concussions... It's not only an NFL problem. It's a sports problem in general though it gets magnified in football because of the popularity here. Youth sports have seen a huge diagnosis increase in not just football but also hockey and soccer. Those are actually the 3 highest. And that's not going away. I'm no doctor obviously, but they'll have to find ways to curb it because it will be a deterrent for a lot of parents and their kids. 

Lastly, regarding the stadium here. I really don't like what we've been presented. The Smith family obviously has the capacity to fully do this on their own. And I get that's not how sports work in today's world. The city has to fork over something otherwise they'll go to someone else that will. And someone else will do it. But nearly $90M out of the pockets of tax payer's pockets plus being given the land (that's another $12M?) isn't good. To be fair, I have less of a problem with the city spending the money because that comes from a dedicated tourism tax that was set up for this time of thing. But the county is using it from the general fund. I think if the city and county cut this number in half you'd get less griping from people. For the record, I'd like to see a team here too as it might actually make me pay attention to the sport some more, but still don't think this a fair deal for the citizens as it stands today. 

[elrodvt]

^

I'm curious, Will you also let MILB, NFL and NBA leave when they come asking for new incentives?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sick of it too but we do need to live in the real world. If you want sports you have to pay to get them.

Same with how the states compete to bribe companies with tax and other incentives.

Hopefully, this spurs some behind the scenes discussions and a better deal gets done. Would hate to lose this opportunity.

 

Regarding citizens overwhelmingly speaking against it - Is it the same vocal minority who're against spending money on anything? Who knows, not scientific in any way.

[atlrvr]

Sorry, for some reason i typed the reverse of what i meant.  MLS avg attendance is greater than NHL and NBA (but not NFL or MLB).

Also, citizens speakers (and residents of Elizabeth) seem to be breaking about 2:1 pro this MLS stadium plan.

[SouthEndCLT811]

22 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

^

I'm curious, Will you also let MILB, NFL and NBA leave when they come asking for new incentives?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sick of it too but we do need to live in the real world. If you want sports you have to pay to get them.

Same with how the states compete to bribe companies with tax and other incentives.

Hopefully, this spurs some behind the scenes discussions and a better deal gets done. Would hate to lose this opportunity.

 

Regarding citizens overwhelmingly speaking against it - Is it the same vocal minority who're against spending money on anything? Who knows, not scientific in any way.

Watching probably 90 min of the 2 hours citizens were given a chance to speak I heard someone against because they wanted it at Eastland, because they want MLB, they played high school football at Memorial and saw a couple concerts, they were a county commissioner who's against the plan's father, they don't want to tear down something historic and a memorial to veterans, the deal is too rushed, person in education wanting the money toward teachers etc.. 

It was a lot of for soccer people vs. other people with differing interests that thought their interest was more deserving of the money in most cases.

Edited January 25, 2017 by SouthEndCLT811

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

Sorry, for some reason i typed the reverse of what i meant.  MLS avg attendance is greater than NHL and NBA (but not NFL or MLB).

Also, citizens speakers (and residents of Elizabeth) seem to be breaking about 2:1 pro this MLS stadium plan.

Yea I watched the whole thing, not sure where people are getting that a majority was against, thats just simply #alternativefacts.

[DMann]

so it must be correct!

[deleted]

1 hour ago, HopHead said:

Lastly, regarding the stadium here. I really don't like what we've been presented. The Smith family obviously has the capacity to fully do this on their own. And I get that's not how sports work in today's world. The city has to fork over something otherwise they'll go to someone else that will. And someone else will do it. But nearly $90M out of the pockets of tax payer's pockets plus being given the land (that's another $12M?) isn't good. To be fair, I have less of a problem with the city spending the money because that comes from a dedicated tourism tax that was set up for this time of thing. But the county is using it from the general fund. I think if the city and county cut this number in half you'd get less griping from people. For the record, I'd like to see a team here too as it might actually make me pay attention to the sport some more, but still don't think this a fair deal for the citizens as it stands today. 

100% my take exactly (sorry HopHead).

[CLT704]

I've been thinking about this and between MLS bid and other things, I'll take 80 odd million dollars of funding for something else. I'd rather have that money go to transit for example. Sure MLS would be nice, but couldn't the Smiths finance the stadium themselves?

[urbanlover568]

19 hours ago, Desert Power said:

Shame we're not going to get a real chance at the MLS

Shame I have to pay money at the toll lane because the city or county "didn't have the money". 

[Desert Power]

2 minutes ago, mpretori said:

Shame I have to pay money at the toll lane because the city or county "didn't have the money". 

Personally, I'll take urban amenities over wider interstates any day 

[urbanlover568]

Just now, Desert Power said:

Personally, I'll take urban amenities over wider interstates any day 

My wallet says otherwise.

[Desert Power]

1 hour ago, mpretori said:

My wallet says otherwise.

Different strokes.  I'd feel different if I ever have to live further too, but I think this is our best chance to get in on a growing (and my favorite) sport

[Missmylab4]

We don't get in this round, we won't be in contention for along time if ever. To continue down the Independence Owner's path would be ridiculous if we forgo the Smith plan. We might as well say we don't want to pursue a MLS franchise. This is a viable plan and ownership group. 

[ah59396]

I'm a huge soccer fan and want nothing more than an MLS team in Charlotte.  But I'm against this.  It's totally a personal thing for me, but I'm sick and tired of watching billionaires get pushed huge sums of tax payer dollars for vanity projects like a soccer team.  If we got a privately funded stadium, I'd be the first in line to buy PSL's or whatever else they came up with.  But I have no interest in giving millions of tax dollars to a billionaire.  This city needs quality of life investments.  Better walkability, more parks and recreation, greenways and improved transit.  Schools, better access to healthcare, the list goes on.  Talk about fund allocation all you want, but it makes me sick to see something like this pushed right to the front of the line while other projects sit dormant and underfunded.  That's all I got folks.  #rant

And I'll say the same thing when it comes time for the Panthers stadium.