MLS in Charlotte - 2021

[Merthecat]

Here's a nice analysis of the field of cities from FC Cincinnati's perspective:

http://cincinnatisoccertalk.com/2017/08/28/market-fc-cincinnatis-biggest-threat-mls-expansion-bid

[videtur quam contuor]

This question from a soccer illiterate. Are there enough players to make expansion appropriate? That is always an issue in other major league sports when dilution of talent affects the overall product, not just the new teams and their struggle.

Business-wise this may be supported but can it be justified on a competition basis?

[Jack152]

56 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

This question from a soccer illiterate. Are there enough players to make expansion appropriate? That is always an issue in other major league sports when dilution of talent affects the overall product, not just the new teams and their struggle.

Business-wise this may be supported but can it be justified on a competition basis?

1. There is no shortage of soccer players on this planet.

2. The current level of play isn't very high for MLS, anyway. Relatively speaking.

[kermit]

^ plus I have the impression that the MLS is viewed as a sort of retirement home for European players (but I am certainly not an expert)

[ah59396]

Nashville approved a $250m MLS specific stadium.  90% of which will be privately funded.  Will go on the fairgrounds.

The city will initially take on the debt to build, with the investor group paying back $9m a year, plus the city getting tax revenue from the stadium as they own it.  They are giving the investor group the land.

 

With a team in Nashville and Atlanta, I would be very skeptical of Charlotte's future chances.

[Scribe]

5 minutes ago, ah59396 said:

With a team in Nashville and Atlanta, I would be very skeptical of Charlotte's future chances.

Short term, there is no chance for Charlotte to get an MLS team, but in 6+ years things will be way different.

[15895]

9 minutes ago, ah59396 said:

Nashville approved a $250m MLS specific stadium.  90% of which will be privately funded.  Will go on the fairgrounds.

The city will initially take on the debt to build, with the investor group paying back $9m a year, plus the city getting tax revenue from the stadium as they own it.  They are giving the investor group the land.

 

With a team in Nashville and Atlanta, I would be very skeptical of Charlotte's future chances.

Would people from the Carolina's give an F about Nashville?  I just feel like. It would be so random to ever like anything Nashville related or Tennessee related as far as sports teams or going there for concerts, etc. I could cheer for teams in DC, VA, ATL, NC & SC. But Tennessee.? Nope. I might as well pick a random team and choose them to cheer for. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by AirNostrumMAD

[Scribe]

It would be pretty funny if Charlotte hosted the 2026 World Cup but still did not have an MLS team in town... http://www.espnfc.com/fifa-world-cup/story/3180427/2026-world-cup-bid-to-consider-49-stadiums-across-us-mexico-and-canada

Charlotte is on the list!

[ah59396]

On 10/4/2017 at 1:48 PM, AirNostrumMAD said:

Would people from the Carolina's give an F about Nashville?  I just feel like. It would be so random to ever like anything Nashville related or Tennessee related as far as sports teams or going there for concerts, etc. I could cheer for teams in DC, VA, ATL, NC & SC. But Tennessee.? Nope. I might as well pick a random team and choose them to cheer for. 

No I don't think we would care.  I just think if there are teams in DC, Cincy, Nashville and Atlanta, the geographic footprint really makes it a challenge to justify to Charlotte.

 

You figure, there are 22 teams in the league now.

23 & 24 are LAFC & Miami.

Say you go 25, 26 & 27 to Cincinnati, Sacramento and Nashville.

That leaves MAYBE 3 spots left in the next decade if they expand all the way to 30.

 

We will likely be in contention with: 

Phoenix (huge attendance and funding.  May honestly be in the tier above and get one of those 3 spots)

Raleigh

Tampa (4x our attendance and a stadium in place)

Indy (avg. 8200 people a game)

Detroit (backed by two billionaires)

St Louis

San Antonio

San Diego

OKC

Louisville

Canadian Team (Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa)

 

Basically, we are running out of time and room.  The only larger blow than Nashville to Charlotte's hope would be a stadium deal in Raleigh.

 

 

[JoshuaDrown]

I have heard over and over again that MLS expansion is about markets, regional coverage and natural rivalries, and owner’s with deep pockets, not about what a USL or NASL club is drawing in attendance (see Atlanta shattering MLS attendance numbers even though their NASL club never drew well and was largely disappointing). 

I have also heard that the league wants the Carolinas and Charlotte in particular (Atlanta and CLT are natural rivals that the league craves in the southeast). The league wants smooth market coverage from Miami to Orlando to Atlanta to Charlotte to D.C., then they will have every state covered up the east coast and the most heavily populated parts of the country. 

Sacramento is in, and it seems likely that Phoenix and Detroit (Detroit and Minnesota are a natural rivalry that will build interest in the northern region) will battle for the last spot in the round of expansion that will be announced in late December. Nashville and Cincinnati are not locks at all, and will be competing with Charlotte for that final spot in the second round of expansion. 

Charlotte will have another year to get a stadium plan worked out, and if they continue to drop the ball, then Raleigh’s stock rises. This is not over, but CLT is not getting one of this year’s announcements, that’s for sure. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by JoshuaDrown

[kermit]

Interesting news about the Independence and Memorial Stadium from the CBJ:

Quote

The idea under consideration in informal talks is to help put the minor league Charlotte Independence into an updated version of Memorial Stadium within several years.

Jim McPhilliamy, managing partner of the Independence, told me Wednesday the minor league team needs to play in or near uptown in order to end years of operating deficits. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/10/11/meck-commissioner-independence-seek-second-look-at.html?ana=e_du_prem&s=scroll&ed=2017-10-11&u=jDmEk%2BCKbYnAvaVfOFOlFGXcGSC&t=1507751179&j=78975201

IMO this is good news, although likely too late to help Charlotte with an MLS bid in the next round.

[SouthEndCLT811]

13 minutes ago, kermit said:

Interesting news about the Independence and Memorial Stadium from the CBJ:

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/10/11/meck-commissioner-independence-seek-second-look-at.html?ana=e_du_prem&s=scroll&ed=2017-10-11&u=jDmEk%2BCKbYnAvaVfOFOlFGXcGSC&t=1507751179&j=78975201

IMO this is good news, although likely too late to help Charlotte with an MLS bid in the next round.

Back to where we were in August 2016.  Indy was about to have county and city approve their renovation plan before it kept getting bumped off the docket due to behind the scene chats with the Smith's.

With strong markets in the USL being better suited for the move to MLS  we need more of a proof of concept that anything above our current league is sustainable and able to grow.  Nashville is making progress without a current team in the market but I think they're the only one that could really pull it off.  Otherwise I think the league is going to look for a solid foundation at a lower level to award future teams.  Sacramento, Cincy, Tampa, Phoenix, San Antonio and Detroit (though their successful lower division team is at odds with MLS bid) all have a better foundation making them more attractive to the MLS at the moment.  

Edited October 11, 2017 by SouthEndCLT811

[CLT2014]

Charlotte MLS bid isn't happening for December and will wait until the future round to re-organize. The city will hold fast on not offering up any money (election season has put a ground stop to anybody wanting to vote for the stadium) per Councilman Mitchell.  Smith doesn't want to pay for it 100% on his own. 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article180429991.html

Nashville's stadium plan  has incredible momentum. MLS analysts seem to think Sacramento and Nashville will get the next two expansion slots, with the decision largely being made and an announcement a mere formality in December. 

Nashville's stadium proposal: 

Under the proposal, the $250 million project will be 90% financed by Ingram’s group ($25 million) and revenue and taxes generated by the stadium ($200 million). The government will provide the land and an additional $25 million to cover some infrastructure costs.

https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/10/02/nashville-mls-expansion-bid-stadium-funding

Edited October 23, 2017 by CLT2014

[SouthEndCLT811]

Let's get back to focusing on Memorial renovation for the Independence and smaller scale events.

[Jack152]

21 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Nashville's stadium plan  has incredible momentum. MLS analysts seem to think Sacramento and Nashville will get the next two expansion slots, with the decision largely being made and an announcement a mere formality in December.

That will be the final nail in the coffin for Charlotte and Raleigh.

[CLT2014]

For the next round of expansion, four cities made it to the semi-finals to be the next 2 MLS teams:

"The league said Cincinnati, Detroit, Nashville and Sacramento will make formal presentations on Dec. 6 to league commissioner Don Garner and the league's expansion committee. Two cities will be awarded teams."

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/raleigh-not-among-4-cities-named-finalists-for-mls-expansion/17148638/

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

For the next round of expansion, four cities made it to the semi-finals to be the next 2 MLS teams:

"The league said Cincinnati, Detroit, Nashville and Sacramento will make formal presentations on Dec. 6 to league commissioner Don Garner and the league's expansion committee. Two cities will be awarded teams."

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/raleigh-not-among-4-cities-named-finalists-for-mls-expansion/17148638/

Hoping for Detroit and Sacramento. I don't want ANY of our regional peers getting a team if we don't

[KJHburg]

What is funny about the Nashville stadium proposal it is not even walkable to downtown Nashville.  It is a couple miles away so I guess that was not be such as factor as MLS said.  Charlotte and Raleigh Durham are both bigger TV markets than Nashville or Cincy. 

[deleted]

On 7/13/2017 at 11:12 AM, ah59396 said:

I think Nashville is the clear favorite in the SE right now.  It just hosted the USMNT for the Gold Cup and had a great turn out (47k+).  It's booming economically and in terms of population, just like Charlotte. It's hosting Man City v. Tottenham this summer.  It's new USL team starts up next year, and as I said in another thread, I think it's showing during the Stanley Cup this year really did a lot for it.

It has got a coolness factor that Charlotte & Raleigh struggle to match.  If it gets a stadium in line, I think it'll make the decision easy for the MLS.

 

Sacramento

Cincinnati

Nashville

Miami

 

That's where I think they will expand (if they take a SE team).  If no Nashville, I think Phoenix gets it instead.

close!

[Jack152]

Looks like Nashville is getting a team.  There goes a Southeastern slot.

And with the Panthers up for sale, maybe Marcus Smith sets his eyes on that prize and drops his bid completely.

[Scribe]

13 minutes ago, Jack152 said:

maybe Marcus Smith sets his eyes on that prize

I know the Smith family is rich and all, but they are not THAT rich...

Bruton Smith is worth $1 billion, how much of it is liquid. https://www.forbes.com/profile/o-bruton-smith/

Not sure about Marcus... but still, I don't think they would be able to pull it off.

[jednc]

On 10/6/2017 at 1:39 PM, ah59396 said:

No I don't think we would care.  I just think if there are teams in DC, Cincy, Nashville and Atlanta, the geographic footprint really makes it a challenge to justify to Charlotte.

 

You figure, there are 22 teams in the league now.

23 & 24 are LAFC & Miami.

Say you go 25, 26 & 27 to Cincinnati, Sacramento and Nashville.

That leaves MAYBE 3 spots left in the next decade if they expand all the way to 30.

 

We will likely be in contention with: 

Phoenix (huge attendance and funding.  May honestly be in the tier above and get one of those 3 spots)

Raleigh

Tampa (4x our attendance and a stadium in place)

Indy (avg. 8200 people a game)

Detroit (backed by two billionaires)

St Louis

San Antonio

San Diego

OKC

Louisville

Canadian Team (Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa)

 

Basically, we are running out of time and room.  The only larger blow than Nashville to Charlotte's hope would be a stadium deal in Raleigh.

 

 

We could just wait until any of the several of them fail and then have them move here.

[Jack152]

6 hours ago, Scribe said:

I know the Smith family is rich and all, but they are not THAT rich...

Bruton Smith is worth $1 billion, how much of it is liquid. https://www.forbes.com/profile/o-bruton-smith/

Not sure about Marcus... but still, I don't think they would be able to pull it off.

At this point, it probably doesn't matter if Marcus drops his bid or not..  With the looming uncertainty about Panthers ownership, there's no way the city spends a dime on a soccer stadium.

[Merthecat]

Panthers > soccer.

I agree with Jack152 that the city will not go after soccer when they may lose football.  Even if MLS does come to Charlotte, the Panthers will still have a dramatically bigger fanbase and more influence.

[SgtCampsalot]

https://twitter.com/DanielVliet1/status/943284398933401600?s=04