tozmervo

MLS in Charlotte?

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Seems like the possibilty of MLS in Charlotte is turning around for the good. Sadly, We’re still focused on putting around 20 Million into  Memorial stadium, Which it would be better to just save money for a larger MLS stadium. Memorial stadium would be a great stadium to host concerts in.

Edited by Cadi40

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It's more likely Memorial hosts concerts under the agreement they're proceeding on vs the allotted free days the city/county would have gotten under the Smith deal.  Now they control the lease and events hosted outside of the days their tenants occupy.  It'll be a community asset.

Jenkins Peer was announced as the architect for Memorial yesterday fwiw.  They did Jerry Richardson Stadium on UNCC's campus.

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Honestly renovating Memorial stadium is money down the drain. They’re not doing anything significant that would increase the chances of people coming to games. I think they should put the money aside and wait for a more valuable project. 

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17 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

Honestly renovating Memorial stadium is money down the drain. They’re not doing anything significant that would increase the chances of people coming to games. I think they should put the money aside and wait for a more valuable project. 

Memorial has historical significance in Charlotte.  They have to retain it and (that being the case) they have to maintain/renovate it.  Otherwise, I'd agree with you.

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2 hours ago, SouthEndCLT811 said:

It's more likely Memorial hosts concerts under the agreement they're proceeding on vs the allotted free days the city/county would have gotten under the Smith deal.  Now they control the lease and events hosted outside of the days their tenants occupy.  It'll be a community asset.

Jenkins Peer was announced as the architect for Memorial yesterday fwiw.  They did Jerry Richardson Stadium on UNCC's campus.

Wait.  So the plans that were floated out there is not what will be built?  Is there a chance for revisions?  The design below is horrible.  High schools have better stadiums.  Not a single square inch of cover and it would be miserable to be out there.  

They don't need the upper deck but they should have some sort of canopy system similar to the smaller stadium in Europe.  

 

 

 

Memorial-Stadium-rebuild-rendering.png

la-tribune-est-auchan-est-toujours-en-construction-elle-sera-entierement-finie-en-decembre-on-y-appose-encore-les-immenses-arches-qui-forment-le-toit.jpg

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The Independence paid  for the renderings to show a phase 1 to get to an eventual phase 2 of an appropriately sized MLS stadium here.  So this for the USL:

Memorial-Stadium-rebuild-rendering.png

Would be able to expand to this for MLS

Image result for charlotte memorial stadium mls

Renderings were done by  architects paid for by the team to show potential of site.  The county has the latitude to design as they see fit, including some sort of covering but that's all on them.  Media kind of latched on to the rendering the team provided and ran with it.  Though if you see what Jenkins-Peer did to Jerry Richardson Stadium it's pretty much what that ugly phase 1 rendering looks like

Image result for jerry richardson stadium

Edited by SouthEndCLT811
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1 hour ago, tozmervo said:

:whistling:

I must not enjoy my job enough to keep my focus.  This is a partial list I have come up with to attempt interpreting your emoji:

1.) You work for Jenkins-Peer and are partially offended by the comment about JR Stadium sucking.

2.) You work for a competing architect and agree that the stadium sucks.

3.) You know that it will have a canopy, but cannot say.

4.) You know that David Tepper already contacted the county about halting the project while he puts together an MLS bid.

5.) You know that the county halted the project, not wanting to invest $30M (or whatever it was) until they see what Tepper is going to do with Panthers practice facilities and a potential MLS team.

 

Obviously my mind wanders trying to interpret UP.

 

 

Edited by J-Rob
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1 hour ago, J-Rob said:

I must not enjoy my job enough to keep my focus.  This is a partial list I have come up with to attempt interpreting your emoji:

1.) You work for Jenkins-Peer and are partially offended by the comment about JR Stadium sucking.

2.) You work for a competing architect and agree that the stadium sucks.

3.) You know that it will have a canopy, but cannot say.

4.) You know that David Tepper already contacted the county about halting the project while he puts together an MLS bid.

5.) You know that the county halted the project, not wanting to invest $30M (or whatever it was) until they see what Tepper is going to do with Panthers practice facilities and a potential MLS team.

Obviously my mind wanders trying to interpret UP.

2

My hope is that it's #4 or #5.

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Really sucks that CLT missed out on the opportunity for MLS Team in town.  Anyone think that Nashvilles entrance into the fray and the existing Team in ATL has all but ended Charlottes chance just due to geography? 

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If anything the league likes regional rivalries very similar to NFL..  Look at Vancouver/Seattle/Portland, Houston/Dallas/Austin potentially, Orlando/future Miami, San Jose/LAG/LAFC, KC/Salt Lake/Minnesota/Colorado

A southern triad of Nashville/Atlanta and Carolinas is another solid grouping.  Not to mention another rival in DC which has some gripe against Atlanta for copying the United and color scheme..

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If the consensus is 10 years for MLB ready, anyone like to predict the available land 10 years out?

 

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So many variables! If land is not set aside as part of the practice field conversion we'll have missed the boat imho. 

I also think the likelihood of another MLB team this near Atlanta is low. The southeast isn't exactly a strong baseball territory.  Plus I think it will take expansion and the owners don't seem serious about that right now.  Then you have to deal with the Knights and that park. I guess I'm just saying you could estimate 30 years or 10 or never and have the same odds of being right.

I don't mean to come across as negative about the idea as I would absolutely love a downtown park....

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Anyone think that the David Tepper comment on MLS is more better or serious than Marcus Smith?  Basically it'd be either dual owners either way (NFL/MLS or NASCAR/MLS).  Which do you think would be better?

Should've proofread that comment/question better....

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12 hours ago, elrodvt said:

So many variables! If land is not set aside as part of the practice field conversion we'll have missed the boat imho. 

I also think the likelihood of another MLB team this near Atlanta is low. The southeast isn't exactly a strong baseball territory.  Plus I think it will take expansion and the owners don't seem serious about that right now.  Then you have to deal with the Knights and that park. I guess I'm just saying you could estimate 30 years or 10 or never and have the same odds of being right.

I don't mean to come across as negative about the idea as I would absolutely love a downtown park....

Distance from Atlanta is perfect for a team.  Close enough for a rivalry but far enough away to have different fanbases.  MLB has two teams in Bay Area, 3 within 3 hours driving in SoCal, 3 within 2 hours of Chicago, two in Missouri, Texas, Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, NY, Baltimore and DC are an hour apart.  Portland is getting a team and will be close to Seattle.  MLB is definitely expanding and Charlotte is one of 3 cities likely to get a team.  If we get a team, the Knights go away...simple.  That happens in every market before MLB arrives (Denver had the Bears and Zephyrs before the Rockies).

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2018/6/14/17461568/baseball-realignment-expansion-teams-portland-montreal-charlotte

Also, the Southeast is a baseball hotbed.  Very successful college programs, minor leagues that are predominantly based here, strong youth leagues producing a ton of MLB players (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/birthplace.php?y=2018),  Knights leading minor league attendance for fifth of six years.

Edited by JBS
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2 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

Anyone think that the David Tepper comment on MLS is more better or serious than Marcus Smith?  Basically it'd be either dual owners either way (NFL/MLS or NASCAR/MLS).  Which do you think would be better?

Should've proofread that comment/question better....

Tepper’s comments are huge... he’s only had a few press conferences and has mentioned MLS twice, this is not accidental or frivolous. He’s a calculated businessman and knows that more dates for his stadium means higher profits. I think this points to a shared stadium, either renovated BoA or something new (but that something new might not come for a while). MLS prefers smaller soccer specific stadiums, but Atlanta and Seattle do the shared stadiums very well, and also lead the league in attendance. Atlanta United was filling up Georgia Tech’s Bobby Dodd Stadium while they waited for Mercedes-Benz Stadium to be finished.

MLS loves rich investors, and by my crude research and calculations, Tepper’s roughly $11B net-worth might be the 2nd or 3rd highest net-worth in the NFL and MLS, with Paul Allen the wealthiest owner in both leagues.

MLS owners net-worth:

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/emdm45efhhd/philip-anschutz/#43f1ec8f7808

NFL owners net-worth:

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/emdm45elmmf/1-paul-allen/#b69acf056adb

Edited by JoshuaDrown
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5 hours ago, JBS said:

Distance from Atlanta is perfect for a team.  Close enough for a rivalry but far enough away to have different fanbases.  MLB has two teams in Bay Area, 3 within 3 hours driving in SoCal, 3 within 2 hours of Chicago, two in Missouri, Texas, Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, NY, Baltimore and DC are an hour apart.  Portland is getting a team and will be close to Seattle.  MLB is definitely expanding and Charlotte is one of 3 cities likely to get a team.  If we get a team, the Knights go away...simple.  That happens in every market before MLB arrives (Denver had the Bears and Zephyrs before the Rockies).

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2018/6/14/17461568/baseball-realignment-expansion-teams-portland-montreal-charlotte

Also, the Southeast is a baseball hotbed.  Very successful college programs, minor leagues that are predominantly based here, strong youth leagues producing a ton of MLB players (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/birthplace.php?y=2018),  Knights leading minor league attendance for fifth of six years.

Sure it's a good distance in baseball country but not in the SE.  You really think Miami, Tampa and Atlanta are a hotbed for baseball?

The knights are drawing less and less as time goes on which is natural. But the drop this year has appeared (gate is not reported) huge. I would guess there are a lot of  Corp and season tix holders not showing.

In any case getting rid of them and that stadium is going to cost a bundle.

The sbnation article is just random click bait as far as we know.

 

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31 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

Sure it's a good distance in baseball country but not in the SE.  You really think Miami, Tampa and Atlanta are a hotbed for baseball?

The knights are drawing less and less as time goes on which is natural. But the drop this year has appeared (gate is not reported) huge. I would guess there are a lot of  Corp and season tix holders not showing.

In any case getting rid of them and that stadium is going to cost a bundle.

The sbnation article is just random click bait as far as we know.

 

Atlanta is averaging 32k a game.  TB has a terrible stadium in a terrible location and Miami is one of the two worst teams in baseball.  Besides, what does attendance at Florida games have to do with Charlotte?

The Knights literally lead all of minor league baseball in attendance (not really sure how  to spin that as a negative).  Getting rid of them will be no more difficult than Denver getting rid of the Zephyrs when the Rockies came around.  In fact, the MLB owner likely won't have to pay them a dime (why would they?).

That article is absolutely click bait but I used it because it referenced an article by Jayson Stark that is behind a paywall and not clickbait.

Edited by JBS

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7 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

Anyone think that the David Tepper comment on MLS is more better or serious than Marcus Smith?  Basically it'd be either dual owners either way (NFL/MLS or NASCAR/MLS).  Which do you think would be better?

Should've proofread that comment/question better....

Most definitely, the Smith bid was a joke that never had a chance. Hopefully Tepper can make something happen. 

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On 7/14/2018 at 3:34 PM, JBS said:

Atlanta is averaging 32k a game.  TB has a terrible stadium in a terrible location and Miami is one of the two worst teams in baseball.  Besides, what does attendance at Florida games have to do with Charlotte?

The Knights literally lead all of minor league baseball in attendance (not really sure how  to spin that as a negative).  Getting rid of them will be no more difficult than Denver getting rid of the Zephyrs when the Rockies came around.  In fact, the MLB owner likely won't have to pay them a dime (why would they?).

That article is absolutely click bait but I used it because it referenced an article by Jayson Stark that is behind a paywall and not clickbait.

We don't know the reported attendance numbers vs. the gate but as a season ticket holder I do know my eyeballs tell me it is often only 1/2 full other than weekends or  dog night  ;-). I wasn't saying their attendance was a negative just commenting on what I see.  Personally I am getting tired of the games because they're never a competitive team and think I'll go back to single game tickets next year. Some organizations seem to put their "prospects" at AA then give them a cup of coffee in AAA and off they go. It seems like the white sox may follow that philosophy. But I diverge.

Did you see Tampa opened a new stadium in Ybor which I think is the best location you can find in that city. They sized it as 32K making it one of the smallest parks. The pictures I saw make it look kind of plain inside for a new park but would like to see it in person.

Question: if the Knights left of their own volition, which as you say they probably would (if contracts allow it) then who pays to tear down the park and how much would that cost?

I'm not sure how to bridge the RR tracks but that combined with a portion of the practice field would be a pretty sweet spot for a mlb park and entertainment district. I also wonder if you could shoehorn a mlb park into the knights spot if they closed mint and graham and used that space too?

Edited by elrodvt

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https://twitter.com/emptyseatspics

 

This twitter account aggregates photos of sporting events that have small attendance or questionable attendance counts. Baseball n Florida is a popular location and MLS is well represented also.  The twitter feed is meant as a schadenfreude experience, I believe.

The Knights are not in that twitter feed.

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On 7/14/2018 at 3:03 PM, elrodvt said:

Sure it's a good distance in baseball country but not in the SE.  You really think ..... Atlanta are a hotbed for baseball?

 

Yes. Georgia is one of the top producers of top MLB talent. Cobb County specifically is one of the top areas of the country. Braves have a good thing going with their new stadium and the Battery. Probably something that Tepper would look to do hopefully at Pipe and Foundry location. "Pipe and Foundry District" would be a cool name for the area, like the Power and Light District in Kansas City. 

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11 hours ago, elrodvt said:

We don't know the reported attendance numbers vs. the gate but as a season ticket holder I do know my eyeballs tell me it is often only 1/2 full other than weekends or  dog night  ;-). I wasn't saying their attendance was a negative just commenting on what I see.  Personally I am getting tired of the games because they're never a competitive team and think I'll go back to single game tickets next year. Some organizations seem to put their "prospects" at AA then give them a cup of coffee in AAA and off they go. It seems like the white sox may follow that philosophy. But I diverge.

Did you see Tampa opened a new stadium in Ybor which I think is the best location you can find in that city. They sized it as 32K making it one of the smallest parks. The pictures I saw make it look kind of plain inside for a new park but would like to see it in person.

Question: if the Knights left of their own volition, which as you say they probably would (if contracts allow it) then who pays to tear down the park and how much would that cost?

I'm not sure how to bridge the RR tracks but that combined with a portion of the practice field would be a pretty sweet spot for a mlb park and entertainment district. I also wonder if you could shoehorn a mlb park into the knights spot if they closed mint and graham and used that space too?

Ybor City is the latest proposed location and likely a good one.  However, it's far from a sure thing.  I assume you were looking at renderings (which might explain the plain interior).

I have no idea who would be responsible for BB&T but compared to knocking down BofA it would be a breeze.  I'd assume whoever buys the land from the city for development will handle demolition.  Maybe it becomes the new MLS stadium (don't know if you could get a soccer field in there and we are obviously getting way ahead of ourselves here).

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