MLS in Charlotte - 2021

[a2theb]

15 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

What do you think the percentage is of people in the "Mint City Collective" who have never actually supported local soccer by going to an Independence game? I'm betting it's really high.

Listen, I get supporting grassroots, local soccer but I have seen this argument so many times and it stinks.

 

An MLS team in an uptown location is going to draw your average soccer fan over a USL team playing in Matthews.  Unfortunately, the casual fan that may flip on a Saturday morning premier league game on NBC or even watch MLS on occasion just doesn't want to go watch second tier american soccer 25 minute out of their way.

Edited July 31, 2019 by a2theb

[Madison Parkitect]

Just now, a2theb said:

Listen, I get supporting grassroots, local soccer but I have seen this argument so many times and it stinks.

 

An MLS team in an uptown location is going to draw your average soccer fan over a USL team playing in Matthews.  Unfortunately, the casual fan that may flip on a Saturday morning premier league game on NBC or even watch MLS on occasion just doesn't want to go watch second tier american soccer 25 minute out of their way.

I absolutely agree about the average soccer fan. I totally get that and it's very understandable. Otherwise the Independence would be drawing the 30k each game that the MLS team will draw. I mean, I've only been to one Independence game since moving back but if they were uptown or at Memorial I'd go more.

But I think it's a different issue when it comes to supporters groups. If you're going to set yourself up as the official supporters group and be the gatekeepers of pro soccer in Charlotte, I think you should be supporting the Independence at least a little. The Independence have a supporters group that is at every match cheering and singing and drumming, and for this new group to jump in as the official one (and all the self-important bragging rights that you know will come with it) seems disingenuous. 

[SouthEndCLT811]

4 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

I absolutely agree about the average soccer fan. I totally get that and it's very understandable. Otherwise the Independence would be drawing the 30k each game that the MLS team will draw. I mean, I've only been to one Independence game since moving back but if they were uptown or at Memorial I'd go more.

But I think it's a different issue when it comes to supporters groups. If you're going to set yourself up as the official supporters group and be the gatekeepers of pro soccer in Charlotte, I think you should be supporting the Independence at least a little. The Independence have a supporters group that is at every match cheering and singing and drumming, and for this new group to jump in as the official one (and all the self-important bragging rights that you know will come with it) seems disingenuous. 

The groups sort of overlap.  I'm one of those guys at the Independence games cheering, yelling little less drumming and singing but in that section anyway.  Friends of ours that are out there with us are also heavily involved in MCC.  Some of us are not involved and indifferent because a billionaire is gonna billionaire and get MLS if he really wants.  Other's are firmly against it, so we span the whole spectrum but find a way to get along.  Maybe just not obvious to everyone unless you know all us soccer nerds haha

[Madison Parkitect]

8 minutes ago, SouthEndCLT811 said:

The groups sort of overlap.  I'm one of those guys at the Independence games cheering, yelling little less drumming and singing but in that section anyway.  Friends of ours that are out there with us are also heavily involved in MCC.  Some of us are not involved and indifferent because a billionaire is gonna billionaire and get MLS if he really wants.  Other's are firmly against it, so we span the whole spectrum but find a way to get along.  Maybe just not obvious to everyone unless you know all us soccer nerds haha

If there's overlap between the groups I'm fine with it. Not that my opinion matters at all, the Charlotte team won't even be my favorite since I fell in love with the Sounders while I lived there. I just don't want the MCC or whoever to become an elite group that considers themselves the gatekeepers and turns off regular fans like I've seen happen with other MLS supporters groups. I want Charlotte to have a team everyone can support, going to a soccer game is super fun!

[CLT2014]

13 hours ago, Missmylab4 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsoctv.com/amp/news/local/charlotte-s-race-to-get-mls-team/971369981

sounds like maybe we could hear something tomorrow. 

Is anybody else reporting an actual announcement could be tomorrow besides WSOC-TV??? (Just asking because they are a sensationalist outpost focused on terrifying people about how a bear could eat them in Yellowstone,  they will get shot by a stranger, or exclusive interviews with a mother who stood in the sun too long and got a sunburn).

I haven't been able to find anybody else saying tomorrow is more than just a networking / presentation session to MLS. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by CLT2014

[Missmylab4]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sacbee.com/news/article233268257.html

Sacramento is under the assumption they too may hear today. 

[a2theb]

Was under the assumption that is was made clear by the MLS that hey wouldn't be announcing anything during the all star game.

[Madison Parkitect]

Haven't they announced the new cities during All-Star Game halftime before? I feel like I remember them making big announcements like that before. 

Doesn't sound like Sacramento will be getting a team yet, from what I've seen. Seems like they're having trouble scraping together the franchise fee. Just a year ago Charlotte was fairly far down the order of cities to get a team, amazing what a determined billionaire can get.

[kickazzz2000]

5 hours ago, Madison Parkitect said:

What do you think the percentage is of people in the "Mint City Collective" who have never actually supported local soccer by going to an Independence game? I'm betting it's really high.

Probably the same percentage of the 72,000 at an ATL UTD match.

[Madison Parkitect]

20 minutes ago, kickazzz2000 said:

Probably the same percentage of the 72,000 at an ATL UTD match.

You're confusing my thoughts about a supporters group with my thought about general fans. There's a difference between the two. And Atlanta doesn't draw 72k at their games anyway, they're averaging around 50k.

Attendance is going to be a whole different argument once we get a team. I'm a big proponent of soccer-specific stadiums in most markets because it's a bad experience to have 15-20k at a football stadium that holds 60k. Charlotte is not Atlanta or Seattle, and attendance around 20k will be a great level for them. But it will give the ignorant anti-soccer crowd something to gloat about because "only" 20k at BofA will be worse optics than 20k at a stadium that's built for that many.

[navigator319]

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/174483/mls-remains-very-impressed-with-david-tepper-charlotte-may-have-to-wait-a-bit-longer-on-mls-expansion-news-though/

Wait and see longer.  Sounds like a tag team on the city/state the last two days to jump in on stadium $$

[Madison Parkitect]

With Garber's comments about Charlotte not having an SSS, I'd really love to see something worked out where the Panthers and the city/county/whoever come to a deal where Tepper kicks in some money to turn Memorial into a stadium for the MLS team and the city/county/whoever kicks in part of the cost of a new Panthers stadium. Or, if not Memorial, maybe a deal where the Panthers build a new stadium on the Pipe & Foundry land and the MLS team gets a smaller SSS where the Panthers' stadium is now, and some kind of mutual funding deal is worked out between all parties.

[Madison Parkitect]

Another HUGE chance for Charlotte to show its soccer interest http://www.thecharlottepost.com/news/2019/08/01/qcfc/women-s-world-cup-champs-to-play-at-bank-of-america-stadium/

Plus bonus quote from Rapinoe about Charlotte becoming one of the country's premier sports cities!

[jednc]

14 hours ago, Madison Parkitect said:

With Garber's comments about Charlotte not having an SSS, I'd really love to see something worked out where the Panthers and the city/county/whoever come to a deal where Tepper kicks in some money to turn Memorial into a stadium for the MLS team and the city/county/whoever kicks in part of the cost of a new Panthers stadium. Or, if not Memorial, maybe a deal where the Panthers build a new stadium on the Pipe & Foundry land and the MLS team gets a smaller SSS where the Panthers' stadium is now, and some kind of mutual funding deal is worked out between all parties.

Tepper wants to maximize his investment in the Panthers. He's going after MLS because they play in the opposite season from the Panthers and therefore can share a stadium. He has no interest in building a separate stadium for soccer. If that's a deal breaker for MLS, then my guess would be Tepper moves on.

I guess the good news is, I think MLS caves on this.

[CLT2014]

The MLS is just trying to act like they can't be bought and doing a little chest thumping about "soccer specific stadiums" so it isn't so obvious to the public that all they care about is money. They can be bought and they know it...

Edited August 2, 2019 by CLT2014

[HopHead]

^Tepper is a smart guy too. He didn't amass $11B by not knowing how to play the game.  Can he afford to build a new retractable roof stadium? Of course. But if he knows he can get something from the local gov't (when everyone else does), he's going to do it. Also, MLS is key to him getting financial assistance for that new building too. It's an easier sell when you can say you have two teams playing in the venue (along with concerts, college games, etc.). If we do get a new retractable roof stadium, you can guarantee that Charlotte will get a Super Bowl, Final Four (again) and CFP game. 

[RaleighHeelsfan]

I would rather the city put 500 Million towards the light rail. Just saying.

[jednc]

1 hour ago, RaleighHeelsfan said:

I would rather the city put 500 Million towards the light rail. Just saying.

Different funding source.

Edited August 2, 2019 by jednc

[tozmervo]

13 minutes ago, jednc said:

Different funding source.

How is that yet established? Has someone said the Panthers could only be funded by X and light rail by Y? 

If the city/county coughs up a few hundred million, other projects WILL LOOSE OUT. There's no way they won't. The tourism tax could go to many other things, including paying for amenities at light rail stations, museum renovations, festival funding, etc - all of it could ostensibly be tied to economic benefit tied to tourism. Capital funds? Same story. If Peter raids the account for the next ten years, Paul is on the street for that amount of time, begging for scraps. 

[InSouthPark]

17 hours ago, tozmervo said:

How is that yet established? Has someone said the Panthers could only be funded by X and light rail by Y? 

If the city/county coughs up a few hundred million, other projects WILL LOOSE OUT. There's no way they won't. The tourism tax could go to many other things, including paying for amenities at light rail stations, museum renovations, festival funding, etc - all of it could ostensibly be tied to economic benefit tied to tourism. Capital funds? Same story. If Peter raids the account for the next ten years, Paul is on the street for that amount of time, begging for scraps. 

Counter point: take away the stadium, lose taxes on the 700+m annually the panthers pump into the economy and where does that leave the coffers?  The city is spending money to make money. Just like every business has to do. 

[videtur quam contuor]

This take assumes that consumers without Panthers option (or anything) would never spend the money they spend now at food, refreshment, tickets and so forth. The money would disappear from the economy except for the increased savings rate. This is obviously not true. Money is fungible, it can go wherever the consumer wishes. More options may, in some way, draw some money into circulation which would otherwise remain frozen in place, and may encourage debt, which is an expansion of the economy. 

Andrew Zimbalist, an economist, has written extensively on this.

I cannot refute your precise number.

[rockhilljames]

Question for soccer fans: why are so many teams named "Real" and "United"? Does that mean anything specific?

[cltcane]

1 hour ago, rockhilljames said:

Question for soccer fans: why are so many teams named "Real" and "United"? Does that mean anything specific?

I know a Charlotte MLS team would/will probably be named Carolina United (which actually makes sense), but I still prefer American-style team names, and I don’t care that soccer fans judge me for it.  Carolina Cougars for the win!

[Tyrone Wiggum]

2 hours ago, rockhilljames said:

Question for soccer fans: why are so many teams named "Real" and "United"? Does that mean anything specific?

Real means "royal" in Spanish; United is usually a product of two plus football teams coming together to become one club.

Put on the tab of just how pretentious Murkan soccer is:  De novo clubs with 'United' in the title, or Salt Lake City having 'Real' in its name. Broken record time: spending hundreds of millions on having pub team soccer that will do absolutely nothing to boost Charlotte's profile is asinine (top of mind because the Fire is moving back to Soldier Field, and a couple of my Chicago peeps were like, what; we have a soccer team?  Meh. No1curr).

[eastsider]

1 hour ago, cltcane said:

I know a Charlotte MLS team would/will probably be named Carolina United (which actually makes sense), 

That would be such a lame name, Charlotte's two closest rivals would be named United (Atlanta and DC). If they can't come up with something original then just buy the Independence name from the USL club.