Commuter Rail for the NE corridor

[Spartan]

TOD still generates cars. I'm not sure folks would want to see little Old Concord Road lined with density. North Tryon can absorb growth better, as well as being closer to I-85.

As for North Tyron being "big box land," the new Walmart is between stations and the IKEA outside the quarter-mile walk. There is still plenty of vacant land along the "weave" to have TOD right at the station. And if Carolina Pavilion at I-485/South is any indication, it may not be so terrible to have some big boxes within a half-mile of stations.

[thetrick]

I have been thinking about it and the biggest hurdle to Commuter rail on the NCRR is the BLE. So much time money and political capital has been invested in the BLE that anything that could even slightly conflict, or change any part of the BLE at this stage would get no backing from CATS. The only way North corridor commuter rail will even get talked about is if the BLE gets too expensive and can’t get funded, or gets pushed even farther out on the timeline.

As for the cost of commuter rail from Charlotte to Salisbury I think it will be more expensive than you think. The cost for the NE commuter to Huntersville was $250m in 2007 and that had about $45m in track upgrades. I think that you will still spend the same amount in track upgrades because you are operating on a much more complex system. For commuter rail to be successful it must be reliable and cannot be delayed by slow freight trains. This means that you have to make sure there are enough crossovers in the double track to allow commuter trains to pass slow freight trains. Also you will most likely have to triple track from 36^th street into the gateway station, this was something that was mentioned in the CRISP report but is not funded by the HSR. You would also need a really good dedicated maintenance facility manned by well trained people that will service the trains at night. I love the transportation museum, (NCTM) but nothing existing up there comes even close to this.

Even given the hurdles I think you would end up with a high quality fast service serving a well populated area. Hell even just the benefit of people from all the way up to Salisbury to be able to easily attend UNCC without the need of a car, would be a HUGE benefit. I think the cost would be well justified.

Todd

[cltbwimob]

^I still don't think the cost would be prohibitive. I think that maybe some extra crossovers like you said or just good coordination for timing could solve a lot of those issues, especially since CR service could just work morning and evening rush hours. But I do not work in the Railroad industry so I am really speaking as someone who doesn't know anything about coordinating train movements.

I do agree that the BLE will be the reason something like this will not happen. My guess is that commuter rail on the same corridor might hurt the projected ridership numbers for BLE which I think would be the killer from CATS perspective. So...even though I think it's a feasible, cost effective solution to quickly build a transit corridor, and would possibly help to free up money for the North Line (presuming the BLE was pushed back a couple more years) I don't think it will happen.

[orulz]

^I still don't think the cost would be prohibitive. I think that maybe some extra crossovers like you said or just good coordination for timing could solve a lot of those issues, especially since CR service could just work morning and evening rush hours. But I do not work in the Railroad industry so I am really speaking as someone who doesn't know anything about coordinating train movements.

I do agree that the BLE will be the reason something like this will not happen. My guess is that commuter rail on the same corridor might hurt the projected ridership numbers for BLE which I think would be the killer from CATS perspective. So...even though I think it's a feasible, cost effective solution to quickly build a transit corridor, and would possibly help to free up money for the North Line (presuming the BLE was pushed back a couple more years) I don't think it will happen.

[kermit]

Let's add it up:

Crossovers $15m

Triple Track $90m

Stations $70m

Maintenance facility $30m

Rolling Stock $50m

Northend Bypass $52m

That's $307 million. Add in whatever else I've forgotten and we're probably closer to $400 million. So, not cheap. Worth the money? I'd say so. But finding the funding would be challenging, particularly if the BLE moves forward.

If Rowan and Cabarrus County step up with money from a 1/4 cent sales tax, however, it could happen. I have no idea how likely the counties are to try and institute such a sales tax, and even if they do, they might not be too keen on spending some of their money on a train that whisks people to Charlotte.

[kermit]

My hail mary dujour:

The Golden Leaf Foundation distributes a larger portion the state's tobacco company settlement funds to economically distressed communities. They slightly revised their mission to "to complement and leverage federal and state stimulus programs to increase the impact of its grantsmaking on targeted communities."

While neither Mecklenburg or Cabarrus are categorized as distressed, Rowan is in the moderately distressed category. If better connections to Charlotte could be sold as " job creation and retention" in Rowan perhaps this source of funding could be leveraged for a portion of the Rowan infrastructure.

http://www.goldenleaf.org/seekers.html

[orulz]

...despite that I will quibble with the station costs. The new Lexington station will need to have baggage, ticketing communication and staff facilities. With commuter service all this is unnecessary (a ticket kiosk, some shelter and benches is all you need). As a reference stations for the red line appear to be budgeted at slightly less than $2 million each (in 2011 dollars). This adjustment would chop $50 mill off the numbers.

[Batou]

This whole idea would actually work more in my favor a station near John Kirk would actually be within a real short walking distance to where I am. I also am pretty much at this point used to hearing trains go by that way anyway all the time so it wouldn't be that big of a deal.