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John E

By John E
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John E Burg

John E

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What makes you think that the Republican Party has taken over the Tea Party?

The Department of Defense may be larger than it needs to be but that is just one department. The size of the department doesn't reflect the size of government. The people want a DoD that is strong. We agree that the people do not want us to be the world policeman. It's much more involved than that but a book could be written on the subject. We sure should bring our soldiers home for OUR defense.

I agree that the U.S. is a Fascist Government. The world banking industry controls Congress and the White House Administration with the help of Corporations. Actually, they control the majority if not all large corporations.

The Tea Party Movement was started by the Ron Paul Revolution movement that sprung up in 2007. These are people that have been getting disgusted with the government for years. We were extremely angry with Bush. Being one of them is why it annoys me when you say RTP. The Tea Party is not Republican. Not all, but many of the Tea Party Patriots understand that the Democratic and Republican leaders have the exact same agenda. That is to destroy the sovereignty of the U.S. for a one world government. The Tea Party of West Michigan allowed Paul Mayhue to speak at the tax day rally.

Do you think the U.S. would be better off without a central banking system that is called the Federal Reserve?

Do you think the citizens of the U.S. would be better off without the Patriot Act?

Do you think the Federal Government should be involved in education?

Do you think that our election system is legitimate? I'm talking about the electronic counting of votes.

Do you think that many or most politicians are put into place or manipulated by the global banking leaders?

Do you think that corporate media has too much influence on elections?

What organization would you recommend to be the watch dogs for Congress and the White House Administration?

Lots of questions for lots of discussion.

Thank You,

~John

Get US out of the U.N.

End the Fed

Restore Our American Republic - ROAR

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jwazzz Whistle-Stop

jwazzz

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What makes you think that the Republican Party has taken over the Tea Party?

The Department of Defense may be larger than it needs to be but that is just one department. The size of the department doesn't reflect the size of government. The people want a DoD that is strong. We agree that the people do not want us to be the world policeman. It's much more involved than that but a book could be written on the subject. We sure should bring our soldiers home for OUR defense.

I agree that the U.S. is a Fascist Government. The world banking industry controls Congress and the White House Administration with the help of Corporations. Actually, they control the majority if not all large corporations.

The Tea Party Movement was started by the Ron Paul Revolution movement that sprung up in 2007. These are people that have been getting disgusted with the government for years. We were extremely angry with Bush. Being one of them is why it annoys me when you say RTP. The Tea Party is not Republican. Not all, but many of the Tea Party Patriots understand that the Democratic and Republican leaders have the exact same agenda. That is to destroy the sovereignty of the U.S. for a one world government. The Tea Party of West Michigan allowed Paul Mayhue to speak at the tax day rally.

Do you think the U.S. would be better off without a central banking system that is called the Federal Reserve?

Do you think the citizens of the U.S. would be better off without the Patriot Act?

Do you think the Federal Government should be involved in education?

Do you think that our election system is legitimate? I'm talking about the electronic counting of votes.

Do you think that many or most politicians are put into place or manipulated by the global banking leaders?

Do you think that corporate media has too much influence on elections?

What organization would you recommend to be the watch dogs for Congress and the White House Administration?

Lots of questions for lots of discussion.

Thank You,

~John

Get US out of the U.N.

End the Fed

Restore Our American Republic - ROAR

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crinzema Whistle-Stop

crinzema

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I believe parts of the government are too big, starting with the military. If you want an example of who is bankrupting this country, look no further than the Pentagon. The US spends more on it's military than all of the other countries in the world combined - why? We have troops stationed in over 100 countries around the world - again, why? Now before you paint me as some anti military commie, know that I am a Vietnam era veteran who volunteered to serve my country and was proud to do it. I'm troubled because we have turned into policeman to the world - not a role the founders of our country envisioned. You ask why I cast you into my mold of what I think the republican Tea Party is all about - they are my opinions, nothing more or less. I could ask you the same, why do you refuse to admit that while the RTP may have had noble beginnings, it has become co-opted by the republicans as a way back to power. Had your group formed at any other time, under any other president I would give you more credence. The government has been growing since Eisenhower and yet, you seem to think that one year of the Obama presidency has sent us down the road to ruin. I suggest you seek out the documentary "Why We Fight" - it may open your eyes to the fact that our country is now basically run by corporations with help from both republican and democrats alike. When I start to see the RTP passing around blame equally, I might be able to listen to your arguments with a more open mind. Bring up specific issues about your movement and I would be happy to discuss them substantively with you.

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jwazzz Whistle-Stop

jwazzz

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Do you know what? I almost agree with everything you just said in this post. I don't think your a commie. In my debate class, before Obama's election though, one of my speeches was about how our government has gotten too big and too powerful and I noted our trillion dollar/year empire. I'm not a republican, but the media"Fox News" casts me as a normal republican. I've only voted for 3rd party candidates in my life. We desperately need our 3rd party candidates to be taken seriously, so I'm willing to waste a vote.

Two small points I disagree with you though. This movement started before obama's claim to fame. I believe it started with Ron Paul during the election, with citizens wanting to voice how our government is getting to large and becoming a heavy handed parent that has control issues. But this movement seems to have been started when Obama took office. I think it just rolled into this lap after the elections and people continued their argument. I think you've only taken notice since people are now arguing towards your candidate and not the policies of someone else. The republican party is so similar to the democratic party, with respect to their views on what the role of government is. They both think government can fix everything. I think the increase in 3rd parties and independents, you will see more people advocating for true conservative economic policies. Secondly, I believe some corporations are corrupt, but I believe our politicians are more corrupt. They open the doors for corporate manipulation in government. Why regulate the private sector for corruption and leave the government unregulated to expand at will. Other than that, I agree with you.

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John E Burg

John E

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Lots of stuff here - I'll start at the beginning of your post - I agree with most of what you said about the DoD but I need clarification on one statement - "The size of the department doesn't reflect the size of the government." Please elaborate.

Congress and the White house are controlled by corporations and banking interests - another area of agreement as long as you are placing blame on both political parties equally.

You may have been extremely angry with Bush but stating this after the fact is a cop out. Very few on the right spoke out against his policies during the entire 8 years of his presidency and anyone who did was labeled unpatriotic or treasonous. Where were the visible signs of this anger you speak of? And I'm sorry if referring to your movement as the RTP offends you - if you cannot see how you are being used by the GOP then your days as an independent organization are truly over.

Would we be better off without the Fed - no but I do agree that they need to be audited and much more transparent and accountable in their dealings.

Would we be better off without the Patriot Act - without a doubt but again, where was the anger when it was first enacted?

Should the Federal Government be involved in education - yes but I would rather see it limited to the dispersing of funds, preferably with no strings attached. Educational policy is best handled on the local level.

Electronic voting - against it.

Global banking manipulation of our politicians - I'm sure it happens but the idea of one world government does not frighten me. It may be the only sensible way to run the world.

Too much media influence on our elections - I don't think there is enough. The media should be the 4th branch of our government.

White House and Congressional watch dogs - if the media is doing their job properly then they would fall into that category. We would never had rushed into our two misguided wars in Afghanistan and Iraq had the media acted responsibly.

Short answers to questions that deserve more in depth discussion - maybe we can tackle them one at a time. There are areas where we are almost on the same page and some where we are reading from completely different books. Here's to better understanding of both points of view through civil discourse as long as we agree we can call the other out over perceived BS.

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John E Burg

John E

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The public at large regulates the value of the dollar much more than the Federal Reserve could ever dream of doing.

Example: If I sell you a 2011 Ford Mustang for $1, we just determined the value of a dollar: one 2011 Ford Mustang. The Fed can only attempt to mimic this by adjusting the money supply but people react to the change in dollars in circulation.

Also, what's gold backed by?

[sarcasm] I don't want my money backed by gold which is backed by NOTHING! What an atrocity![/sarcasm]

Currencies are only as valuable as their perceived liquidity in a given environment. It just so happens that the dollar bill is pretty darn liquid in the US and thats why we all don't use pens as a currency. But we could...that'd be sweet. Like a red pen is 20 dollars...a blue pen is 50 dollars...a yellow pen is 100.

Additionally, printing "as much money as they want" IS regulating the value of the dollar: worthless. The Constitution never says the country's currency has to be worth anything. Hows that for strictly obeying the constitution? Pretty sweet, huh?

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John E Burg

John E

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1. Do you think there would be a difference between Congress's monetary policy and the Fed's?

2. Then the value of the dollar can be worth next to zero. 0.0000000000001% of a penny. Therefore it has value and worth.

The amount of currency is circulation is only one factor of it's value. Just like the amount of gold in circulation is one factor. What if we found a giant deposit of gold next year and our dollar crashed because of it? Or what if we found out how to make gold? Would we still want to tie our currency to gold's value then?

What I'm getting at is that the value/worth of anything is dictated by people's perception. Thats all. Doesn't matter if we trade in gold, dollars, euros, pens, or farm equipment; all of their value is perception. So when you talk about (i.e. repeat Ron Paul's words) the gold and silver system you're really talking about taking on the perception of the majority of the people who feel the dollar bill has a value and worth without being backed by anything. And last I checked, majority rules in a Republic. (ROAR!)

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John E Burg

John E

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Yeah, way to much false reality and "manufacured reality". Society is deceived into a false reality and society has become a "manufactured reality". Social reality is not natural, it is manufactured by the globalists.

~John

ROAR

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Ted Whistle-Stop

Ted

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If I let people on each side of the issue punch me in the face (once), can we stop talking about this? It's like a skipping record (and the tune its stuck on is really annoying).

Agree to disagree and lets stop this topic at page 6. :)

Joe

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jwazzz Whistle-Stop

jwazzz

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If I let people on each side of the issue punch me in the face (once), can we stop talking about this? It's like a skipping record (and the tune its stuck on is really annoying).

Agree to disagree and lets stop this topic at page 6. :)

Joe

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John E Burg

John E

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If I let people on each side of the issue punch me in the face (once), can we stop talking about this? It's like a skipping record (and the tune its stuck on is really annoying).

Agree to disagree and lets stop this topic at page 6. smile.gif

Joe

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John E Burg

John E

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I'm not familiar with the Urban Journal Coffee House - is it a part of Urban Planet or a separate site altogether? And a side note to crinzema and JohnE - here is a perfect example of political convergence. We come from opposite ends of the political spectrum but find common ground here - my guess is there are many more areas where we will agree. You both made valid points - this discussion has been respectful and what may have started out as a bit confrontational, has turned into an educational exchange of philosophy's. Once again, I would hope that this topic remains open - I am curious to see how this morphs over time.

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joeDowntown Metropolis

joeDowntown

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John, Jwazz, Crinzema- I'm not going to stop the debate unless it gets out of hand. The problem is, there is so much bullsh*t information being slung around as fact (and I'm not pointing fingers at one side or the other).

As a moderator I have to read it. Wish I had the luxury of ignoring it, my eyeballs would hurt less.

And Crinzema, as a Moderator, this isn't a democracy. ;) If you don't like UP, or the way it is moderated, take your rhetoric somewhere else. I hear MLive.com is looking for experienced forum posters. Shame on me? I'd tell you what I think about that but I would have to ban myself (being of the tyranical, communist and zero-tolerance censorship kind).

Joe

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