The Bad News Report

[Miesian Corners]

Forest for the trees. What no one is talking about is the fact the NC General Assembly, a body made up of a majority of "small government" Republicans created a special law to negate a local ordinance. Just like it did when it legislated changes to the makeup to the Wake County School Board and the Greensboro City Council. The way it did by stealing the City of Asheville's water supply and the way it tried to steal the Charlotte airport. 

Either you believe in small government or you don't. You can't have it both ways (unless, apparently, you're the GOP in North Carolina).

 

[GeauxCLT]

3 hours ago, kermit said:

As the father of a teenage daughter I have a really difficult time understanding this logic. There is absolutely no evidence suggesting that there would be a problem created by the Charlotte ordinance. Yet we live in a country where their is a huge amount of evidence suggesting that our permissive firearms laws cause children to kill and be killed at appalling rates (there were 83 incidents last year of a child killing someone with a firearm and roughly 1,500 children are killed each year by guns in the US (about 4 per day) -- yet we do absolutely nothing to reduce the frequency of this problem.  Why do we think its OK to limit the rights of a small group of people just because of a vague worry about non-existent "pervs and creepers" while 4 kids a day get killed? When I worry about my child's safety (and I do that a lot) I try to focus on the risks that 1) actually exist and 2) are most dangerous. Getting distracted by petty, non-existent, problems only sustains and increases the real (and preventable) risks to my child's health.

The condecending tone the Internet enables is amusing.  I was trying to explain the logic behind a reasonable, non-hate based opposition to the law. Maybe this will simplify it for you:

-the law allows people with male anatomy to change in a women's locker room

-I don't want my daughter watching R rated movies much less viewing real life male anatomy, even if it is an accidental glance.

That risk "actually exists" given the law. 

Pontificate all you want. I've already said I have no issue with a transgender person using the bathroom stall of their choosing. Changing the law to eliminate the legal right to take action against abusers of decency just seems overkill bordering on absurdity to me. I never said I was overly concerned she was going to get abducted and raped because of this law. Clam down. Introducing gun laws into this discussion is not something I'm going to entertain. The right to privacy and the right to preserve the innocence of your child are rights some people believe are worth preserving. There is nothing discriminatory, morally wrong, or hate-filled with that opinion. 

[Squid7085]

I don't understand the whole "Charlotte brought this on" thing. If Raleigh simply created a bill that nullified the Charlotte ordinance, there would be complaining, but the whole controversy would have died off and it is unlikely anything would have pulled out of Charlotte. Instead, they passed a bill that nullified the Charlotte bill, and then proceeded to do a million and one other things.

They sell it like they just had to take away the Charlotte ordinance, but under the hood they did so much more, the things people are really mad about. Charlotte is just being used as a scapegoat for them to pass a bill with all the hate. I completely understand the NBA, and as much as I hate what it did for Charlotte (A place I just moved to mind you) I applaud them. McCrory tried to call a bluff, and the NBA proved them wrong. 

A bunch of f&$king children.

[deleted]

^^

I agree with much of your post.  However, Charlotte could have passed the ordinance without the controversial bathroom/locker room portion and it's likely Raleigh would have done nothing.  They were (allegedly) warned that there would be a disproportionate reaction if they passed they ordinance and they passed it anyway (apparently thinking that the GA was bluffing).  They weren't and the idiots in Raleigh quickly passed a law (with virtually zero public discussion and debate) that went way beyond the narrow bathroom provisions.  So, in that regard, Charlotte did bring this on.  Had they incrementally tried to increase protections and access, I believe they would have been successful.  It's true that the GA used a cannon to kill a bug but it's also true that I'd hesitate to let my wife or daughter shower with a man/transexual woman (I'd have no issues with them showering with a lesbian, BTW).  Am I worried about that?  Not at all.  Am I against the law?  100%.  Do I believe that the law will protect people from criminally-minded perverts?  No.  However, there was clear over-reach on both sides.  I don't think that opinion makes me a bigot since I believe all people should be treated with respect and that discrimination on the basis of sexuality should be illegal.  

Edited July 23, 2016 by JBS

[videtur quam contuor]

I have read this entire exchange. I am so disappointed that in an election that can make such a difference in our lives, an immediate difference for every person, that our energy is expended on wrangling about legislation on the bathroom someone may use. I have an opinion about the legislation but my true concerns are about a much deeper darker future. This discussion diverts attention from the drama we may face. I am focusing on what keeps me awake at night and it is certainly not this issue.

I have made no other comment on this thread and will make no further one.

Edited July 24, 2016 by tarhoosier

[vicupstate]

On 7/23/2016 at 10:53 AM, caterpillar2 said:

As an educator, I saw the status of education in this state under Pardue. When I arrived in Charlotte in 2008, 500 plus teachers were in the process of being laid off. Getting a position in the CMS was almost impossible for a newly certified teachers or those not in the mathematics or sciences field.. McCrory gave teachers their first 'actual' raise in years and brought  student achievement scores up measurably. Teacher pay is no longer at the bottom of the national list.  Unfortunately for McCrory, he inherited the I-77 fiasco from the Pardue administration. McCrory opted not to make changes or cancel the contract as it was in place when he took over  and he was not part of the process.

I believe that McCrory made mistake  giving home builders total control of the designs and  aesthetics  of new houses in new neighborhoods in the state.  This disallowed HOAs to monitor designs and control  the integrity and continuity of new developments.

Finally, I don't believe in discrimination in any way, shape, or form.  I also believe that if there is no problem, there is nothing to fix. There is and has not been a problem with bathroom use for the LGBT community. I have friends and family in that category that will attest to that. North Carolina. is on board with 21 other states with identical laws that aren't having issues either. In my opinion, we certainly don't need more special interest groups that can cry discrimination when they are fired for being poor performers, lacking proper social interaction skills, or other just causes. Everyone should be allowed to take legal action if 'genuinely' discriminated against. In all cases, the most qualified person should hired for specific positions. But, once hired, standards and defined goals must be met.

 Mayor Roberts may have made points with many, but  those of us unfortunate enough to not have a exceptionality for which to cling, we mostly find her as a self serving person with a complex focusing on special interest group populism as her goal and not the general welfare and prosperity of the city.  Perhaps she should contact McCrory for information on being a great mayor and going forward. She has been successful in making the city look to outsiders what it isn't. 

This is my opinion and we all have one. And, I am responding to the HB2 issue which is on topic.  We all should have a right to an opinion without being harassed by those that oppose. You said the Roberts hasn't gotten the national attention that McCrory has received. Firstly, it may surprise you that McCrory isn't getting attention at all from what I have seen traveling around. Secondly, McCrory should get more attention as he is the Governor and Roberts is only a mayor and not a dynamic one. The higher the position, the more attention. 

Give me a damn break. You do realize that Bev Perdue did/does not run CMS, don't you?  You do realize that Perdue took over the Governor's Mansion just as the economy was falling off of a cliff while McCrory took over just as the recovery was hitting a higher gear? The state's revenue situation was completely opposite, you can't spend what you don't have. It is a a deception to portray Perdue as anti-Education.  The NCGA when Republicans took control enacted major cuts in education at all levels and only reversed course when it was costing them support and the next election cycle was on the horizon (plus an improving economy enabled them to do so).

McCrory and the legislature enacted massive changes in the tax laws which dramatically benefited higher income residents at the expense of the lower and middle income classes. To divert attention from that and the very controversial nature of their POTUS nominee Donald Trump, they need something that would inject visceral fear and the Charlotte ordinance was their vehicle. You are in denial if you think Trump is not a controversial nominee, and that was even more the case at the point in which HB2 was enacted. 

The GOP has used fear to accomplish it's political goals for decades now. From Goldwater and Nixon with Civil Rights, to Karl Rove and Gay Rights, to Trump and Immigration now, they stoke fear to get people to ignore their common struggles and instead vote based on 'us' vs. 'them'.  

I think Roberts misjudged the NCGA's willingness to buck Charlotte even when it was harmful to the city and the state as a whole.  Given the fact that the NCGA stole the Asheville Water System and did it's best to try to steal Charlotte Douglas, she should have known better.  The LGBT issue was not a new one and she ran on a campaign to enact it. She followed through on that and she should be commended for such. The NCGA had NO business putting their nose into the situation.  They did so in the most clandestine and hurried way because they knew their actions would not pass scrutiny. In their haste they essentially made discrimination of all kinds more legally permissible. Already that has had to be 'fixed'. 

McCrory was a decent mayor but that office is largely ceremonial and a figurehead one. It absolutely cannot be denied that he has let himself be bent to the will of the legislature's kingpins and the Art Pope/ALEC crowd since being elected.  He is not his own man and will not stand up to anyone on his side of the political aisle.   

You don't read much news if you think McCrory hasn't gotten the lion share of the focus of HB2 and that it has been mostly negative. That is as it should be because he and he alone could have stopped it. He could have said he wanted a better bill that addressed only the bathroom issue. He could have done many things to smooth things over and seek compromise. He did none of those things because he is merely a pawn in someone else's chess game.          

[caterpillar2]

2 hours ago, vicupstate said:

 

 Give you a break?  From what? Reality?  It is what it is. Perdue made teaching a profession from which to escape with no pay raises and huge lay offs. She made stupid deals like Chiquita Banana's relocation here and the benefits offered. And, since I don't care about HB2, I don't care that McCrory has taken lots of heat. That is his problem.  I go to the bathroom, do my business, and get out. I don't hang around, therefore, I don't care who or what is there. I do wish that McCrory would bite the bullet and just trash the bill for the sake of the city. You elude to "seeking compromise" on the HB2 issue.  Don't you think that it would be more sensible if Roberts had used her brain and coordinated her modifications with the governor or perhaps orchestrated a referendum or vote?  

Edited July 24, 2016 by caterpillar2

[vicupstate]

3 hours ago, caterpillar2 said:

 Give you a break?  From what? Reality?  It is what it is. Perdue made teaching a profession from which to escape with no pay raises and huge lay offs. She made stupid deals like Chiquita Banana's relocation here and the benefits offered. And, since I don't care about HB2, I don't care that McCrory has taken lots of heat. That is his problem.  I go to the bathroom, do my business, and get out. I don't hang around, therefore, I don't care who or what is there. I do wish that McCrory would bite the bullet and just trash the bill for the sake of the city. You elude to "seeking compromise" on the HB2 issue.  Don't you think that it would be more sensible if Roberts had used her brain and coordinated her modifications with the governor or perhaps orchestrated a referendum or vote?  

Reality is what you are not seeing. That which is publicly discussed and acknowledged is about 25% of what is actually going on in politics.  The back story and what is controlled by the lobbyists/contributors/party hacks, etc is the other 75% and that is hidden from view as best they can achieve.    

Perdue helped bring a LOT of jobs to NC and Charlotte. Not every business is going to stay around forever, that is the nature of the beast. She did more for Charlotte as Governor than McCrory did as Mayor and Governor.  She would never have cut education if she had a choice in the matter. The state cannot deficit spend as the Feds can. Her hands were tied. 

It took DECADES of work by many people to give NC a superior reputation and better economy and education system than the rest of the Deep South. McCrory and the legislature have begun reversing that in a big way. Decades of progress won't be rolled back overnight, but they are going as fast as they can.  This goes far deeper than just who uses what bathroom. 

 

[Nick2]

HB2 has really caused many of the discussions here to devolve into bickering, rants, and silly ad hominem attacks. This is now off topic at best. How hard is it to discuss bad news related to HB2 (NBA pulling the All Star game) without getting into arguments over the actual bill itself? There is the coffee house area for extra discussion on UP and plenty of other mediums around the internet to express your opinions about and discuss the bill. Please use them.

And to some of you specifically, as Thumper would say, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

[Dale]

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 5:02 PM, Squid7085 said:

I don't understand the whole "Charlotte brought this on" thing. If Raleigh simply created a bill that nullified the Charlotte ordinance, there would be complaining, but the whole controversy would have died off and it is unlikely anything would have pulled out of Charlotte. Instead, they passed a bill that nullified the Charlotte bill, and then proceeded to do a million and one other things.

They sell it like they just had to take away the Charlotte ordinance, but under the hood they did so much more, the things people are really mad about. Charlotte is just being used as a scapegoat for them to pass a bill with all the hate. I completely understand the NBA, and as much as I hate what it did for Charlotte (A place I just moved to mind you) I applaud them. McCrory tried to call a bluff, and the NBA proved them wrong. 

A bunch of f&$king children.

What are these 'million and one other things' ? I swear, it's just like HB2 opponents to exaggerate - grossly so.

[urbanlover568]

Can't even raise money in his own state! LMAO

Wisconsin governor raising money for McCrory

[Dale]

Trailing in the polls, Cooper finds his flip-flops just in time for summer:

https://ladyliberty1885.com/2016/06/03/just-in-time-for-summer-ag-roy-coopers-amazing-hb2-flip-flops/

 

 

[ssh214]

Can we actually talk about bad news on this thread instead of acting like we're all political pundits...

[urbanlover568]

11 minutes ago, Dale said:

Trailing in the polls, Cooper finds his flip-flops just in time for summer:

https://ladyliberty1885.com/2016/06/03/just-in-time-for-summer-ag-roy-coopers-amazing-hb2-flip-flops/

 

 

I like to get my news from reliable sources, not blogs and tweets. Thanks! Btw pat behind now. Have a good day!

Edited July 25, 2016 by mpretori

[Dale]

12 minutes ago, saamh said:

Can we actually talk about bad news on this thread instead of acting like we're all political pundits...

There seems to be commentary aplenty on this thread.

[urbanlover568]

23 minutes ago, Dale said:

Trailing in the polls, Cooper finds his flip-flops just in time for summer:

https://ladyliberty1885.com/2016/06/03/just-in-time-for-summer-ag-roy-coopers-amazing-hb2-flip-flops/

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Dale said:

There seems to be commentary aplenty on this thread.

This is a Pat supporter! 

[Dale]

4 minutes ago, mpretori said:

 

This is a Pat supporter! 

Over Cooper ? I'd take Anders Breivek

[urbanlover568]

2 minutes ago, Dale said:

Over Cooper ? I'd take Anders Breivek

Edited July 26, 2016 by mpretori

[ssh214]

Deleted my original comment.

Edited July 26, 2016 by saamh

[Dale]

1 hour ago, mpretori said:

*bites lip*

[urbanlover568]

2 minutes ago, Dale said:

*bites lip*

"I got mine" Pat supporter right here!

[KJHburg]

Can we start a new Bad News section just dealing with HB2, In my view this category should be for office/plant closures, upsurges in crime, homelessness, housing affordability issues, etc but what do I know. 

[Dale]

I just posted on the *coughs* Civil Rights thread now if anyone wants to discuss HB2. Honestly, I don't see the sky falling.

[urbanlover568]

11 minutes ago, Dale said:

I just posted on the *coughs* Civil Rights thread now if anyone wants to discuss HB2. Honestly, I don't see the sky falling.

You're not fooling anyone. Saying you rather have a terrorist as Governor of NC that massacred 77 people, rather than Cooper. All because you want HB2 to stand.  

Edited July 26, 2016 by mpretori

[Dale]

1 minute ago, mpretori said:

Your not fooling anyone. Saying you rather have a terrorist as Governor of NC that massacred 77 people, rather than Cooper. All because you want HB2 to stand.  

^ Issues from the larynx (or meme) without involving the higher brain centers.