The Bad News Report

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

10 hours ago, navigator319 said:

https://wallethub.com/edu/most-and-least-educated-cities/6656/

IMO this is the type of ranking Charlotte needs to find a way to climb.

#3 = Durham-Chapel Hill, NC

# 8 = Austin

#13 = Raleigh, NC

#23 = Atlanta

#52 = Charlotte

#61 = Nashville

 

 

Our MSA also includes Concord and Gastonia.  I think with our MSA so large, it doesn't pad our stats as much as say other cities with a smaller MSA/higher rank.  Not saying that is the main reason, but could be a factor with our lower rank.  I agree, that it's always important to improve in this area regardless, however, I feel like we already have a very strong talent/educated pool in CLT.  

[navigator319]

The methodology in the Wallet Hub ranking is also interesting in that 20 points can be attributed to quality of public education and if you count just share of adults with HS diploma that is another 20 points .  So in total I think there is 40% of this ranking that can be traced back to public education stats vs. just shares of adults with various post HS degree types.

this is also crappy... https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2018/07/27/charlotte-falls-off-business-magazines-list-of.html

IDK how you go from 2nd last year to not even on the list this year??? 

[CLT2014]

12 hours ago, navigator319 said:

https://wallethub.com/edu/most-and-least-educated-cities/6656/

IMO this is the type of ranking Charlotte needs to find a way to climb.

#3 = Durham-Chapel Hill, NC

# 8 = Austin

#13 = Raleigh, NC

#23 = Atlanta

#52 = Charlotte

#61 = Nashville

60% of the Charlotte metro (they used metro rankings), does not live in Mecklenburg County. Charlotte doesn't control the school system in those areas and we don't do a great job thinking regionally. Mecklenburg likes to function like an island and our rural counties don't love city life. The educational attainment disparity between Mecklenburg and counties like Rowan, Lincoln, Gaston, Cleveland, etc.... is the big driver in us being ranked lower. Austin doesn't have as many towns in the surrounding area like Salisbury, Lancaster, Chester, Kaanapolis, etc... that are struggling to rebound from the historical slowdown in US manufacturing for example.

Edited July 27, 2018 by CLT2014

[NCMike1990]

Ely has a good rundown of stalled projects. https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article215368325.html

[kermit]

 

 

[deleted]

11 minutes ago, kermit said:

 

 

Lagging education system is huge and we have to fix this immediately.  Can't speak to state incentives going to rural areas but it rings true (though we've definitely offered incentives to companies coming to Charlotte and I can understand why more incentives would go to projects considering struggling parts of the state).  Too few IT/creative jobs seems to be improving (I'm guessing the banks have large IT staffs here and fin-tech is growing fairly rapidly here).  The last seems like BS to me.  Charlotte feels neither particularly conservative nor sleepy to me.  If it is perceived that way, I'd imagine that would have it's own appeal to a segment of exec's looking to relocate but I'm not seeing it.  Perhaps it's a leftover perception from HB2 (which was the result of a fairly significant non-discrimination policy passed in Charlotte).  I guess perception is reality but the last one definitely feels inaccurate. 

[Crucial_Infra]

40 minutes ago, JBS said:

 The last seems like BS to me.  Charlotte feels neither particularly conservative nor sleepy to me.  If it is perceived that way, I'd imagine that would have it's own appeal to a segment of exec's looking to relocate but I'm not seeing it.  Perhaps it's a leftover perception from HB2 (which was the result of a fairly significant non-discrimination policy passed in Charlotte).  I guess perception is reality but the last one definitely feels inaccurate. 

Remember where these critiques are coming from. Compared to NYC, most places are conservative and sleepy. Not a serious concern imo; the education system is though. 

[kermit]

14 minutes ago, Crucial_Infra said:

Remember where these critiques are coming from. Compared to NYC, most places are conservative and sleepy. Not a serious concern imo; the education system is though. 

The feedback wasn't from New York firms looking to relocate. The critiques came from site selection professionals from all over who were at a meeting in NYC. (although I too think the sleepy label is a bit off)

Edited August 16, 2018 by kermit

[KJHburg]

Hmm?  I guess the proof is in the pudding so to speak.  NC wins the Prosperity Cup from SITE SELECTION MAGAZINE https://edpnc.com/north-carolina-tops-list-competitive-state-new-corporate-facilities/ in May 2018. 

sounds like one professional and their remarks.  Given that Charlotte and Raleigh Durham are 2 of the fastest growing metros in the country the rural comment is strange.  Public schools like any state vary depending on community.  

NC ranked 3rd best state for business by CEO Magazine in 2018.  https://chiefexecutive.net/best-worst-states-business-2018/ 

[videtur quam contuor]

This school system, CMS, which is what I assume is a (the) target of the reference, is a unified city-county system and has been for 60 years. There are no warring systems within the county searching to steal staff, students, athletes to their fief. This is different, and better, than other states and systems. This state has state wide funding for education which is different from many other cities and states. There is no local millage tax for school, no variation in financial support for local schools, and there is  equal support and qualifications for teachers. We are non union at all levels; drivers, cafeteria workers, teachers, everything. You may certainly see that as a problem and I could agree to a point but these site selectors want no game playing that educational unions often play and we are free from that.
The "education system" surely does not apply to the community college system and the UNC System which are both recognized as standout performers in their peer group. And the large majority of students at each of those systems is made of local NC students, by far most from public school systems.

If these site selectors are targeting their future employees as minimum high school grads and HS dropouts for their minimum wage jobs then their concerns are piffle.

[jednc]

On 7/27/2018 at 10:12 AM, CLT2014 said:

60% of the Charlotte metro (they used metro rankings), does not live in Mecklenburg County. Charlotte doesn't control the school system in those areas and we don't do a great job thinking regionally. Mecklenburg likes to function like an island and our rural counties don't love city life. The educational attainment disparity between Mecklenburg and counties like Rowan, Lincoln, Gaston, Cleveland, etc.... is the big driver in us being ranked lower. Austin doesn't have as many towns in the surrounding area like Salisbury, Lancaster, Chester, Kaanapolis, etc... that are struggling to rebound from the historical slowdown in US manufacturing for example.

I can guarantee you that the "metro" school system where I teach helped pull up CharMeck's scores...Sometimes the attitudes on here about Charlotte are laughable.

[CLT2014]

10 minutes ago, jednc said:

I can guarantee you that the "metro" school system where I teach helped pull up CharMeck's scores...Sometimes the attitudes on here about Charlotte are laughable.

Charlotte MSA's ranking at 54 was primarily driven by a ranking of 66 on education attainment, largely due to some surrounding counties having a lower percent of adults 25+ with bachelor degrees.

Mecklenburg, 43%

Union, 34%

York, 29%

Cabarrus, 29%

Gaston, 20%

Rowan, 18%

Etc... (this is not every MSA county, but it gets the point across)

My comment was about the surrounding counties having a lower percentage of adults with college degrees, which was the primary driver of our lower overall rank. It is a metro-wide solution, not just Charlotte in a vacuum.

Edited August 16, 2018 by CLT2014

[jednc]

2 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Charlotte MSA's ranking at 54 was primarily driven by a ranking of 66 on education attainment, largely due to some surrounding counties having a lower percent of adults 25+ with bachelor degrees.

Mecklenburg, 43%

Union, 34%

York, 29%

Cabarrus, 29%

Gaston, 20%

Rowan, 18%

Etc... (this is not every MSA county, but it gets the point across)

My comment was about the surrounding counties having a lower percentage of adults with college degrees, which was the primary driver of our lower overall rank. It is a metro-wide solution, not just Charlotte in a vacuum.

Ok, fair enough. I think Meck's % is higher because when young, college-educated people move to this region, they almost certainly move into Charlotte proper. I do not believe for one second that CharMeck schools is doing a better job than some of the suburban counties' school systems at producing students who go to college and obtain a degree.

[CLT2014]

3 minutes ago, jednc said:

Ok, fair enough. I think Meck's % is higher because when young, college-educated people move to this region, they almost certainly move into Charlotte proper. I do not believe for one second that CharMeck schools is doing a better job than some of the suburban counties' school systems at producing students who go to college and obtain a degree.

Yeah I think CharMeck would rank mid pack for that. After Union and York 04, ahead of Gaston, Rowan, etc..

But yeah, my point was our ranking was low as some of our surrounding counties like Gaston and Rowan really drag down our college attainment.

Edited August 16, 2018 by CLT2014

[videtur quam contuor]

Just a datum point: I was responsible for polling senior class members about their plans directly after graduation at Weddington High School the first four years it had a senior class. The poll was during the last week of school. This was for a report to the state that all high schools must submit. The responses are self reported but I knew the students so there were few surprises. This was before Marvin Ridge and Cuthbertson so WHS had the affluent areas of western Union county to itself. >90% two parent families (think about that). I always get a gobsmacked expression when I tell people what the most popular college choice was for our students. (Pause while you answer to yourself)

 

CPCC. Which, by the way, is not the state community college in their county which is South Piedmont.

Edited August 16, 2018 by tarhoosier

[jednc]

11 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Yeah I think CharMeck would rank mid pack for that. After Union and York 04, ahead of Gaston, Rowan, etc..

But yeah, my point was our ranking was low as some of our surrounding counties like Gaston and Rowan really drag down our college attainment.

I can't speak to Gaston or Rowan with any sort of actual knowledge, but I do think the counties that have not grown at the same rates as others (like Union, Cabarrus, Iredell, York) might not have the highest rates compared to the faster-growing counties.

I graduated from an exurban school district here in NC. I'm only one data point, but I help inflate Meck's numbers even though this county has had no impact on my education.

[kickazzz2000]

20 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

Just a datum point: I was responsible for polling senior class members about their plans directly after graduation at Weddington High School the first four years it had a senior class. The poll was during the last week of school. This was for a report to the state that all high schools must submit. The responses are self reported but I knew the students so there were few surprises. This was before Marvin Ridge and Cuthbertson so WHS had the affluent areas of western Union county to itself. >90% two parent families (think about that). I always get a gobsmacked expression when I tell people what the most popular college choice was for our students. (Pause while you answer to yourself)

 

CPCC. Which, by the way, is not the state community college in their county which is South Piedmont.

What the hell?  I wonder if it’s still that way.

I have noticed, anecdotally, that the cool kids seem to end up at big SEC schools now.  

[jednc]

20 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

Just a datum point: I was responsible for polling senior class members about their plans directly after graduation at Weddington High School the first four years it had a senior class. The poll was during the last week of school. This was for a report to the state that all high schools must submit. The responses are self reported but I knew the students so there were few surprises. This was before Marvin Ridge and Cuthbertson so WHS had the affluent areas of western Union county to itself. >90% two parent families (think about that). I always get a gobsmacked expression when I tell people what the most popular college choice was for our students. (Pause while you answer to yourself)

 

CPCC. Which, by the way, is not the state community college in their county which is South Piedmont.

It's not what I would have predicted, but now that I think about it, it makes sense. If 70% of college-bound students go to a traditional, four-year school, and 30% go to a community college, your anecdote makes sense to me. That 70% might be going to many, many different schools, but that 30% would almost certainly go to CPCC. CPCC has three campuses closer to Weddington than the closest SPCC campus in Monroe. The main CPCC campus is only a couple of miles further from Weddington than SPCC and I'd have to believe that CPCC offers a great deal more variety of courses than SPCC. Of course, I've made up the 70%/30% numbers just to illustrate my thinking. Interesting story.

[BuzzCity]

41 minutes ago, kickazzz2000 said:

What the hell?  I wonder if it’s still that way.

I have noticed, anecdotally, that the cool kids seem to end up at big SEC schools now.  

I graduated from Weddington a few years back and I can tell you that CPCC is definitely not the most popular college choice now, and is probably replaced by UNCC as the most applied to college at the school. I still have access to my naviance account, which shows that in 2017 there were 22 total CPCC applicants with a total of 12 enrolled. In comparison, UNC had 113 total applicants with 51 accepted and 38 enrolled. UNCC had a total of 145 applicants with 101 accepted and 36 enrolled. 

[kermit]

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

Yeah I think CharMeck would rank mid pack for that. After Union and York 04, ahead of Gaston, Rowan, etc..

But yeah, my point was our ranking was low as some of our surrounding counties like Gaston and Rowan really drag down our college attainment.

I lost interest before I could find the corresponding data for number of college graduates from each county but this site has the number of graduates in 2015 from each county who attended a UNC system school its probably a decent proxy for four-year college attendance: https://demography.cpc.unc.edu/2016/04/27/college-bound-nc-high-school-graduates-and-the-unc-school-system/

Mecklenburg: 3,100
Union: 1,004
Cabarrus: 690
Gaston: 483
Lincoln: 219
Iredell: 562
Rowan: 285

 

[Nick2]

Westrock paper manufacturer is closing operations at their Southwest Charlotte plant and will be laying off all 170 full time employees. They are consolidating for efficiency.

https://amp-charlotteobserver-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/amp.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article217013500.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#amp_tf=From %1%24s

[kermit]

On 8/16/2018 at 4:08 PM, kermit said:

 

 

Spanberg did a nice job elaborating on this tweet yesterday in the CBJ:

Quote

Among the consultants’ opinions shared with Hynes and Pearce: Charlotte lacks an identity, site-selection experts remain confused by how the economic development groups divide up responsibilities (including the Charlotte Chamber and the Charlotte Regional Partnership), Charlotte lacks the academic and research pedigree in higher education of its peer cities, the N.C. General Assembly doesn’t cooperate with Charlotte government, state incentives favor rural areas over cities, leadership is largely unknown and, in the words of one site-selection representative, Charlotte is “a conservative, sleepy business community that shuts down after business hours."

Dodson went on to note consultants’ belief that Charlotte lacks technology workers (a major factor in being left off Amazon’s finalists for HQ2 this year) as well as tech and creative companies. The national consultants also criticized regional recruiters and leaders for resting on past successes without examining what’s working and what isn’t in the economy and for attracting businesses.

 

Lots of sound observations in the story. While some of the problems are created by the NCGA (like teacher pay and the University system) their are quite a few others that are bad local decisions (the Chamber and Regional Partnership duality should have been addressed years ago).  Overall its not a good look for Charlotte.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2018/08/21/city-leaders-hear-harsh-assessments-of-charlotte.html

[15895]

Garbage. 

Im not just saying that because I’m from CLT. I think lacking culture and Identity and being a conservative place that shuts down at 5 describes the vast majority of American cities. 

 

[kermit]

9 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Garbage....

It might be, but if the site selection guys are saying it then, true or not, its a problem.

[joenc]

The IT/Tech jobs thing is interesting. It's true that Charlotte has a lot of jobs in 'tech', but they aren't the sexy jobs you find in the Bay Area and Seattle. The same is true for Raleigh (different than the Bay Area). It's a divide between product people and workers that implement existing software and frameworks.

Facebook, Google, Apple, Amazon (some parts) engineers have a different set of skills from your typical Bank/corporate IT worker. They are not interchangeable at all.