The Bad News Report

[KJHburg]

^^^ Total disagree that this is Middle finger to NC but to each his own.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas-legislature/2017/08/15/transgender-texans-cautiously-optimistic-bathroom-bill-declared-dead-now

[Dale]

Tim Cook did announce recently that he’d be doubling down on his moral preening. 

[Hushpuppy321]

That's it, I'm done.  NC sucks major crap and doesn't get respect.  I'm moving to Nashville!

[15895]

6 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

That's it, I'm done.  NC sucks major crap and doesn't get respect.  I'm moving to Nashville!

What?

 

what does Raleigh not being as popular of a tech hub have to do with Charlotte? And Nashville isn’t growing any faster or scoring anything better than Charlotte. 

Raleigh is a great place to raise a family, great elementary schools and I believe they have the large little league soccer league in the nation. Raleigh doesn’t have that sexy vibe silicon is looking for.  That’s a Raleigh issue - not a Charlotte/North Carolina issue.

 

I’ll have to side with our conservatives on this one. HB2 and NC politics has very little impact on our Corp. relocations and any tangible impacts in general. However, it makes for a great scape goat. Apple was looking at Cary. Sorry to say, it’s not a hip area. That’s what the west coast tech guys have come to expect 

[CLT2014]

31 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

That's it, I'm done.  NC sucks major crap and doesn't get respect.  I'm moving to Nashville!

Huh?

How much of an impact does a corporate relocation not happening to a city 2.5 hours away from Charlotte impact our quality of life here, in Charlotte? Charlotte was never really in the running for this and recent announcements like the Honeywell HQ better fit our workforce. 

Its not like San Antonio, TX is like "woohoo we won too guys! Apple is expanding 1.5 hours away from us!"

Edited December 13, 2018 by CLT2014

[kermit]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

^^^ Total disagree that this is Middle finger to NC but to each his own.

Fair enough. What do you think is a likely explanation for our failure to attract any new Apple jobs?

[Hushpuppy321]

3 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

What?

 

what does Raleigh not being as popular of a tech hub have to do with Charlotte? And Nashville isn’t growing any faster or scoring anything better than Charlotte. 

Raleigh is a great place to raise a family, great elementary schools and I believe they have the large little league soccer league in the nation. Raleigh doesn’t have that sexy vibe silicon is looking for.  That’s a Raleigh issue - not a Charlotte/North Carolina issue.

 

I’ll have to side with our conservatives on this one. HB2 and NC politics has very little impact on our Corp. relocations and any tangible impacts in general. However, it makes for a great scape goat. Apple was looking at Cary. Sorry to say, it’s not a hip area. That’s what the west coast tech guys have come to expect 

Well - With that said I do agree with you except for on this point: "HB2 & NC Politics...".  Those two (2) things have had a tremendously negative consequence for NC in multiple ways, when/if companies do begin to look at and consider NC in any fashion.

I just wish Metro areas, localities had more say in things than what the Dillion Rule allows.  Many people/corporations don't view NC has hip or modern as they should (Due in part I believe to NC historically being smaller and more socially conservative than the two coasts empire cities NY, LA, SF, Sea, Bos, etc.) but with State Legislative restrictions and overreach it causes folks to say - slow, sleepy, not hip, not progressive, told you so, etc.

Texas is a very large state - Conservative politics controlled at the State Level but they seem to get things done at the Municipal/Metro Area level.  Look at Houston (Megacity), Austin (New 'go to' Tech hub), Dallas (largest Lightrail system in US by miles of track), SA, etc.

NC gets put back in its box, overlooked and marginalized again.  Even though most of the Triangle, Charlotte and other areas are growing, nice places to live, talented, etc - were stymied by not being allowed to conduct measures to address issues that affect our individual regions.   Like affordable housing, establishing/expanding mass transit options, conducting regional taxes/referendums, marriage equality (HB2 issue -  I was actually against CLT doing this locally but even more so against the General Assembly's heavy handed smack down).

 NC can be much greater than it is now by allowing the thriving engines of the State (CLT & Triangle) to grow and innovate and be semi-independent of the Conservative Politics at the State-Wide level.  The General Assembly has hurt the State tremendously by what they've done and by what they've not done.

[CLT2014]

8 minutes ago, kermit said:

Fair enough. What do you think is a likely explanation for our failure to attract any new Apple jobs?

Maybe they got off the plane, were shuttled to a forest at the edge of the RDU airport in the RTP, were told by NC officials "how cheap the housing is and it is awesome for families" and thought to themselves "This is it?" Shortly after visiting the forest, NC took them to a Harris Teeter anchored shopping center in Cary to eat at a steakhouse.

 Similar to Amazon who thought it looked good on paper, but never came back to the Triangle after making their first visit. If politics were a deal breaker, they never would have put it on their shortlist, as that was well known in advance of their visit. 

The RTP workforce is also packed full of IBM and Cisco type mentalities, which is the type of tech workforce a company like Apple doesn't want. They usually are good with clocking out at 4:45PM to take the kids to soccer practice and waiting for their retirement to kick in. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by CLT2014

[kermit]

^ Well said Hushpuppy

3 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

 

I just wish Metro areas, localities had more say in things than what the Dillion Rule allows.  Many people/corporations don't view NC has hip or modern as they should (Due in part I believe to NC historically being smaller and more socially conservative than the two coasts empire cities NY, LA, SF, Sea, Bos, etc.) 

FWIW as little as a decade ago N.C. was still viewed as a Southern bastion of progressivism and social conscience. Now we are only seen as backwards.

[Dale]

10 minutes ago, kermit said:

Fair enough. What do you think is a likely explanation for our failure to attract any new Apple jobs?

 

7 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Maybe they got off the plane, were shuttled to a forest at the edge of the RDU airport in the RTP, were told by NC officials "how cheap the housing is and it is awesome for families" and thought to themselves "This is it?" Similar to Amazon who thought it looked good on paper, but never came back to the Triangle after making their first visit. If politics were a deal breaker, they never would have put it on their shortlist, as that was well known in advance of their visit. 

The RTP workforce is also packed full of IBM and Cisco type mentalities, which is the type of tech workforce a company like Apple doesn't want. They usually are good with clocking out at 4:45PM to take the kids to soccer practice and waiting for their retirement to kick in. 

You’re not good with talking points, are you ?

[SydneyCarton]

This stinks.  Since Cook is a Duke alumnus, many thought that this would come to the Triangle.  Had the Triangle been able to establish itself as a tech center, it would have complemented the whole state.

[kermit]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

This stinks.  Since Cook is a Duke alumnus, many thought that this would come to the Triangle.  Had the Triangle been able to establish itself as a tech center, it would have complemented the whole state.

The Triangle was one of the _world's_  foremost tech centers 25 years ago but it has failed to evolve to the needs of 21st century research.

Back in the mid 1980s Hugh McColl recognized that Charlotte simply was not urban enough for the city to attract the experienced bankers that [now] BoA needed to expand. BoA shareholders spent more than $2billion to make uptown Charlotte into what is is today. We need a new plan like this to make NC an attractive place for modern tech firms.

[Dale]

I don't think we're remiss for TechWorld picking TechCentral@Techopolis over Workaday Charlotte, but this is not a good look: Hornets and Panthers first and fourth-worst for food violations ...

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/25316231/health-inspection-reports-find-critical-violations-nfl-nhl-nba-mlb-stadiums-2018-espn-lines

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

Fair enough. What do you think is a likely explanation for our failure to attract any new Apple jobs?

I think it has to do with the fact they have over 6000 employees in Austin grew rapidly there and it is a known quantity.  They understand the labor market there. Plus I think the shorter flight back to California the like too.  The number one destination for Bay Area tech workers leaving the state is Texas primarily Austin.   This is another factor I believe.  

If NC was not a good tech state we would not be home of Red Hat which IBM paid $34 Billion for, SAS, huge Cisco operation, Infosys, AvidXchange and many many others.  I think this is purely an example of going with a location they know and have hired thousands there.  Texans don't like to leave the state and if you are tech and graduate you migrate many times to Austin.    We will get our fair share of companies while I am disappointed I am not concerned about NC.   In tight labor markets such as these companies are going to go where their employees are or want to be.  Californians love Texas and especially Austin.   NC continues to attract lots of people.  

[DeleteMe]

1 hour ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

Well - With that said I do agree with you except for on this point: "HB2 & NC Politics...".  Those two (2) things have had a tremendously negative consequence for NC in multiple ways, when/if companies do begin to look at and consider NC in any fashion.

I just wish Metro areas, localities had more say in things than what the Dillion Rule allows.  Many people/corporations don't view NC has hip or modern as they should (Due in part I believe to NC historically being smaller and more socially conservative than the two coasts empire cities NY, LA, SF, Sea, Bos, etc.) but with State Legislative restrictions and overreach it causes folks to say - slow, sleepy, not hip, not progressive, told you so, etc.

Texas is a very large state - Conservative politics controlled at the State Level but they seem to get things done at the Municipal/Metro Area level.  Look at Houston (Megacity), Austin (New 'go to' Tech hub), Dallas (largest Lightrail system in US by miles of track), SA, etc.

NC gets put back in its box, overlooked and marginalized again.  Even though most of the Triangle, Charlotte and other areas are growing, nice places to live, talented, etc - were stymied by not being allowed to conduct measures to address issues that affect our individual regions.   Like affordable housing, establishing/expanding mass transit options, conducting regional taxes/referendums, marriage equality (HB2 issue -  I was actually against CLT .....

...Great summary.  Well done.  Thanks.

We have to be sexier and weirder if we want to be more than a branch office or distribution center.

We have to do a better job of selling ourselves and building our brands. 

When you say/read "Charlotte" or "Raleigh" to someone outside the area or country, what images pop into their heads, if anything?   Austin?   Nashville?

Edited December 13, 2018 by MACyr

[Dale]

6 minutes ago, MACyr said:

...Great summary.  Well done.  Thanks.

We have to be sexier and weirder if we want to be more than a branch office or distribution center.

We have to do a better job of selling ourselves and building our brands. 

When you "Charlotte" or "Raleigh" to someone outside the area or country, what images pop into their heads if anything?  

Well, I can’t vouch for everyone, but some would think second largest financial center in the US and home to a number of Fortune 100 companies.

[DeleteMe]

1 minute ago, Dale said:

Well, I can’t vouch for everyone, but some would think second largest financial center in the US and home to a number of Fortune 100 companies.

Outside of Charlotte, i cant vouch for everyone, but few think that and it's not exactly something you want to use to sell postcards or t-shirts.  "World's Biggest Manufacturer of Plungers", may be, but "2nd Biggest Banking Center"... it's cool and I'm proud of it but meh.

[Dale]

7 minutes ago, MACyr said:

Outside of Charlotte, i cant vouch for everyone, but few think that and it's not exactly something you want to use to sell postcards or t-shirts.  "World's Biggest Manufacturer of Plungers", may be, but "2nd Biggest Banking Center"... it's cool and I'm proud of it but meh.

What do you want ? I mean, we’re doing fish tacos and scooters about as well as anyone.

[joenc]

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

The RTP workforce is also packed full of IBM and Cisco type mentalities, which is the type of tech workforce a company like Apple doesn't want. They usually are good with clocking out at 4:45PM to take the kids to soccer practice and waiting for their retirement to kick in. 

This is most of the reason.

[15895]

49 minutes ago, MACyr said:

Outside of Charlotte, i cant vouch for everyone, but few think that and it's not exactly something you want to use to sell postcards or t-shirts.  "World's Biggest Manufacturer of Plungers", may be, but "2nd Biggest Banking Center"... it's cool and I'm proud of it but meh.

I know a ton of New Yorkers and people in real estate who know clt as a major banking hub. 

 

I remember in a Fitch CMBS workshop, a New Yorker banker said “industries tend to cluster. Like all the banks are based in New York... well. And then those weird guys who want to be in Charlotte.” 

 

I think lots of professionals know CLT is banking hub for the fact that lots of other industries have to deal with CLT companies 

[joenc]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

I think it has to do with the fact they have over 6000 employees in Austin grew rapidly there and it is a known quantity.  They understand the labor market there. Plus I think the shorter flight back to California the like too.  The number one destination for Bay Area tech workers leaving the state is Texas primarily Austin.   This is another factor I believe.  

If NC was not a good tech state we would not be home of Red Hat which IBM paid $34 Billion for, SAS, huge Cisco operation, Infosys, AvidXchange and many many others.  I think this is purely an example of going with a location they know and have hired thousands there.  Texans don't like to leave the state and if you are tech and graduate you migrate many times to Austin.    We will get our fair share of companies while I am disappointed I am not concerned about NC.   In tight labor markets such as these companies are going to go where their employees are or want to be.  Californians love Texas and especially Austin.   NC continues to attract lots of people.  

There is a huge difference in economic value between technology janitors, integrators and implementors, and product development. There are only a few places in the US with teams capable of doing good software and hardware PRODUCT development. This is Seattle, Silicon Valley, San Francisco, New York, Boston. They are pulling far ahead.

Edited December 13, 2018 by joenc

[Dale]

6 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I know a ton of New Yorkers and people in real estate who know clt as a major banking hub. 

 

I remember in a Fitch CMBS workshop, a New Yorker banker said “industries tend to cluster. Like all the banks are based in New York... well. And then those weird guys who want to be in Charlotte.” 

 

I think lots of professionals know CLT is banking hub for the fact that lots of other industries have to deal with CLT companies 

To your New Yorker banker, yeah, weird that people want to live where they can afford to live.

[Crucial_Infra]

Really disappointing. Maybe there'll be an opening for Apple in the future here. Hope so. 

[Dale]

Hopefully, our city will eventually grow to such a status where we have the hippest companies which employees are worker drones who live in their cars.

[Tennessine]

2 hours ago, MACyr said:

Outside of Charlotte, i cant vouch for everyone, but few think that and it's not exactly something you want to use to sell postcards or t-shirts.  "World's Biggest Manufacturer of Plungers", may be, but "2nd Biggest Banking Center"... it's cool and I'm proud of it but meh.

What may detract from the country's perception of Charlotte is that it doesn't have a household nickname. In all honesty, I didn't know its nickname was the "Queen City" until I joined UrbanPlanet. For example, everybody in America can name the Windy City, the Big Apple, Sin City and even Music City.

Part of this lack of knowledge and/or ignorance toward CLT may be a side effect of its rapid population growth. Charlotte is an all-American 21st century city. Hardly anything existed in Charlotte until the 1980s. The population of Charlotte in 1940 was 100,000 residents. That was smaller than Knoxville at the time! Yes, little tiny Knoxville! CLT sprang up out of nowhere, and I'm not sure a lot of Americans have noticed yet.

4 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

That's it, I'm done.  NC sucks major crap and doesn't get respect.  I'm moving to Nashville!

Nashville isn't all roses in the park. Just because we landed 1/11th of Amazon's HQ2 doesn't mean we are more hip than Charlotte. Embrace your city while you can. Charlotte is interconnected with light rail, is more pedestrian-friendly and has a much better urban park system than Nashville. A lot of folks in Nashville wished they had all of those things.