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Warehouse District


RaleighRob

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A 30 story tower on that lot seems absurd to me. This to me seems more like Hatem is posturing to get maximum compensation for the land he owns, some or all of which will have to be taken for Union Station and/or the High Speed Rail project.

 

I would honestly just as rather nothing get built for now in that no-man's-land between the Norfolk Southern and the CSX rail lines.

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Or the lot across from Citrix adjacent to Jillians/(don't remember the terrible club)/Vintage Church at the NE corner of West and Hargett....maybe not 30 on that one, but it'd be perfect for a nice glassy 15 story compliment to Citrix, Union, CAM etc. 

Totally agree. I would add in the lot right across Hargett from the one you are referring to. 

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Totally agree. I would add in the lot right across Hargett from the one you are referring to. 

I have wondered if that whole block would/could be a good grocery store site. 2 acres...go two levels of parking over the store and maybe 3-5 stories of apartments over that and presto. But my pie ideas aside, the article misses a key point we all sort of realize...it says the southern end of the warehouse district has developed while the rest has languished. Well, no sh*%. TTA is holding most of it hostage. Dillion has the 2 acre block I/we just discussed, Hatem even has a fair amount sitting in a chunk he won't demolish or it'd lose its historic tax deferment (I think the Coke/Jillians space gets that since its key to his early business model) and also the City ties up a bunch behind the fire station. Really almost everything that reasonably *can* have active cosmopolitan city stuff (restaurants, art etc) in it, does. I can only think of the Civitas space (i'd be ok demolishing that), Boyettes (perfect cafe corner) and the vacant vacuum cleaner place across from Crank Arm. Actually Spy looks to have quietly closed...its a nice space, and Club Bodi's space is too nice for a club that only got used two nights a week so add those to the list too. 

Anyway, my point is TTA and Dillion need to actively do something and Hatem needs to get back to his old catalyst ways instead of this new idea of waiting to coattail in on other's successes for the Warehouse district to fully blossom. Its so freakin close to being 'fully arrived' if you will, that its killing me. I have a couple of gray hairs in my side burns now...lets get on with this....

Edited by Jones_
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It would have made more sense to build the parking deck on the lot on Hargett between the tracks and connected it via aerial walkway, then used the lot at Morgan and West for a tower. 20 floors seems a lot for that area but something in the same scale as the Quorum building would make sense.

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  • 2 months later...

Saw a rumor from "NewRaleigh" that there is a possible 12 floor residential building in the works to take the place of the Dillon Supply Warehouse.

 

Also, 600 W Hargett:  I forget where I saw this but I think the city said that although Hatem is asking for rezoning for a 30 story limit, the existing sewer and piping could only accommodate something in the 15 floor range here.

 

And if I could offer my dream for the lot across from 600 W Hargett... I think this area between the tracks should be fenced in and turned into a park with a playground, basketball, volleyball, and/or tennis courts, and some industrial-style hardscaping for parkour.  And while I'm dreaming, let's go ahead and add a water feature.  Or I wouldn't be opposed to a simple velodrome here either (i.e. National Sports Center Velodrome in Blaine, Minnesota).

 

Edit:  Velodrome closer to home... Giordana Velodrome in Rock Hill, SC:  Giordana-Velodrome-021.jpg

Edited by Green_man
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  • 1 month later...

I am surprised to hear that he plans on keeping most of the Dillon building. Keeping the facade only as someone suggested would not be a good idea IMO since it has so few windows. But if he's going to keep the building then I'm fine with it. Of course some changes will be needed. The Martin Street side should be or completely redone, with a big boost in transparency, given that this is literally the front door of Union Station.

 

But we should take heart in this fact: Kane, more than any other developer around here, seems to understand the importance and value of retail. Not token retail spaces to meet zoning requirements. Real, useful retail. And moreover, he seems to have a knack for landing tenants. North Hills has a great tenant mix.

 

Take the large single-story space provided by Dillon building, and combine it with Kane's affinity and knack for retail, I would not be surprised if he is considering something like a full-service grocery store.

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If he thinks that Citrix is way out there, holy hell! It's a friggin rehabbed warehouse. I applaud his plans though.

The term rehabbed warehouse does not do it justice. It's a rehabbed warehouse that a segment of RDU terminal 2 landed on top of.

 

Probably Kane means that he will not do anything so radical as turning a 1.5 story building into a 4 story building.

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I'm considering this a sure thing so I'll go ahead and allow myself to envision what it might look like. Definitely agree that the Martin facade should be all retail (I'd call that two stores as it sits today) and Kane definitely is the guy to pull off filling it up. This is such a big deal to all of downtown....the warehouse district is a giant doughnut without this hole being filled in....and in my mind the warehouse district, along with Peace Street needing some love, are the bookends of downtown that, when completed/built out/activated/fixed will finally make downtown one large thriving area and not several disjointed parts. 

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The city is already looking to revamp City Market.  I don't think we need City Market II.

But City Market doesn't function as  market at all. Its an events hall with several business mostly turned inward towards on the perimeter. Classic scared-of-the-rest-of-downtown posture. 

I think a Grove Arcade style set up is what he's envisioning but Raleigh lacks the building stock to duplicate that. 

Another of my, if I won the lottery ideas, is to build about a 6 story cast iron replica building that has an arcade style retail ground floor and spans say a 1 acre block which is the size of this Dillion block. And I'm talking grand cast iron facade, like this guy. But my pipe dreams have little relevance on reality....

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But City Market doesn't function as  market at all. Its an events hall 

 

The Downtown Raleigh Draft Plan alludes to reverting "Cobblestone Hall" back into the original market as part of the rebranding of the area as Market Square.  From what I've read in interviews, it appears that the owner, Hazan, is on board with future renovations.  So instead of recreating City Market in the Warehouse district, it is probably better to push for the city's vision of Market Square with the restoration of the original market. 

Edited by Captain Awesome
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I get your point Captain, but the Cobblestone Hall is small by comparison to marketplaces in other cities. Think of Quincy Market in Boston.

 

Imagine the indoor section of the State Farmers Market with less emphasis on produce, plus a few "open air" restaurants.

Or the Strip in Pittsburgh, or Eastern Market in DC. Curious where'd you'd put it....? The whole LGBT/William Cozart/old Centerline (what's in it now?) would have been perfect but its all occupied...by good stuff mind you, but our warehouse district is tiny and lacks big open spaces good for a market concept...

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Kerry Henderson, senior vice president and managing director of G&S's Raleigh operations, says the company's office lease at The Forum office park in north Raleigh was scheduled to expire in mid-2016, and that they had also considered options in downtown Raleigh before settling on a deal at North Hills.

"We've been keeping an eye on the North Hills and downtown areas for some time, and for us it was the amenities all around North Hills and the location with easy access to I-440," she says. "North Hills seemed to provide the best of both worlds for us.

 

The above comment in regards to a company taking new space in Raleigh's NH's area is, I am afraid going to be the new...why we didn't choose downtown statement. I just hope that it won't become the norm.Fingers crossed! :dunno::unsure::(

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The parking lot for the depot would be a good place for a market-type structure. (If Kane's parking garage is for public parking to make up for the lost spaces)

I would be shocked if Kane builds a parking garage that can be used by the public as well as by his tenets. But if the city can talk him into including a public parking deck or public parking spaces so close to Union station, I think that could be a win-win. And who knows, it could be what sells the city on allowing taller buildings in that area?

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I would be shocked if Kane builds a parking garage that can be used by the public as well as by his tenets. But if the city can talk him into including a public parking deck or public parking spaces so close to Union station, I think that could be a win-win. And who knows, it could be what sells the city on allowing taller buildings in that area?

 

There's public parking in the decks at North Hills at Park & Market and at the Captrust tower.  Not sure about his Stanhope project.

 

Raleigh is still extremely car dependent.  I think Kane would realize that any type of retail or entertainment in the warehouse district will suffer or fail without public parking.  The trick will be the city getting him to provide an extra 60-80 spaces to cover the Union Station deficiency as well.

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Going back to original Kane/City fiasco, I think he'll ask the City to build it for him. Could happen, I'm thinking, as this would neatly solve the limited parking problem at Union Station as well. The TIF used to cover it would start right there with Kane's development. 

Edited by Jones_
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